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Everything posted by Mithar

  1. I used to think the same thing. But if you check the earliest census reports done by the British which also collected data on castes, the Chamars never identified themselves as Sikhs, while all other communities did. Surely the Chamars were never more discriminated than the ChuRaas, yet the Churaas have always identified themselves as Sikh from the earliest of census reports. The truth is, the Chamars have never considered themselves as Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev Jee, they have always identified themselves as Hindus. Within Hindu society the Chamars also get discriminated, yet that does not stop them from identifying themselves as Hindus. As far as the Big Bad Jatts discriminating against them, well the Chamars are responsible for the same crime against the ChuRaas. A Chamar for example will never eat with a ChuRaa, and until recently, would never allow a ChuRaa to sit equally with a Chamar, they consider the ChuRas well below them in the caste hierarchy. ChuRas on the other hand, I feel very bad for them. They do not discriminate against anyone, yet they are discriminated by all. They have always been very faithful Sikhs. The Bhangi Misl was filled by them. When I said that other communities have always had Sikh traditions, well just look at Tarkhans, Sainis, Rajputs, Labanas, ChuRaas they can all date back their traditions to times of the Gurus themselves, while the Chamars can't... Why? because they were never Sikhs in their long history. Sure there were Sikh Chamars here and there like the famous Giani Ditt Singh(master mind of the Singh Sabha movement), but over all Chamar mainstream community does not have a Sikh tradition neither have they ever identified themselves as Sikhs. Now they have turned Bhagat Ravidas Jee into the Guru of the "Chamars", when that was never the case. Until recently, Bhagat Ravidas Jee's followers came from diverse backgrounds. But ever since Dalit nationalism of Dr Ambedkar, Dalits have decided to start and create their own religions. Dr Ambedkar called on Dalits to embrace Buddhism, while the Dalit leaders of north India in particular Punjab(mainly Doaba Chamars) called Chamars to embrace and high jack the name of Bhagat Ravidas jee. Even during the Punjabi language struggle, the Doaba Chamars would overwhelmingly identify Hindi as their mother tongue as opposed to Punjabi.
  2. Well, for us Bhagat Ravidas Jee is Bhagat, not Guru. For us, the human Guru is only those Gurus who were from Guru Nanak Dev Jee to Guru Gobind Singh Jee, and now their Guru Jyot is in Guru Granth Sahib Jee. A Sikh should never mimic the Chamar community by calling Bhagat Ravidas Jee as Guru. We need to understand the background of the Chamar community when they call Bhagat Ravidas Jee as Guru. They are mainly Punjabi Chamars. Unlike the Kabir Panthis who have a direct link to Bhagat Kabir Jee, the Chamar Ravidasia movement has no direct Sampradayak or Panthic link going all the way back to Bhagat Ravidas jee. Their movement is mainly a caste based movement that started not too long ago in reaction to Jats. Unlike Jats, Tarkhans, khatris, Lobanas, Sainis, Mazabi, Rajputs and even Brahmins who embraced Sikhi and have a long standing Sikh tradition within their own respective communities, the Punjabi Chamar community does not have a Sikh tradition of their own. They were never really Sikhs unlike some other communities in Punjab. They mainly started reading Bhagat Ravidas jee's bani and began associating with him after the British took over Punjab, otherwise they don't even have any long standing tradition of being Bhagat Ravidas followers prior to that. The Punjabi Chamars being followers of Bhagat Ravidas Jee is a very recent phenomenon. Prior to the Chamarisation of the Ravidas movement, the followers of Bhagat Ravidas Jee came from all backgrounds and communities just as Guru Nanak Dev jee and Bhagat Kabir Jee had following from all communities.
  3. Personally I think that until Khalsa Raaj is established all over the world casteism and dowry will remain prevalent. No amount of education or awareness can destroy these two evils which are as integrally part of us as white on rice. Even when India was under Buddhism before Shankar Acharya was born, casteism remained despite Indian society following Buddhist doctrines which reject casteism. Within our Panth, casteism and dowry is very much prevalent. Only Sikhs with Jatha or group affiliations have been saved from these evils, but our mainstream Sikh society is following casteism and dowry traditions.
  4. I think that studying other scriptures is important for us to understand Gurbani in proper context. The Gurbani of SGGSJ and Dasam Granth make many references to events and personalities who are connected with the Hindu religion. I think that studying other scriptures is important to understand the context many tukhs are written in.
  5. The Chamars call Bhagat Ravidas Jee as "Guru". But for us Sikhs, he is a revered Bhagat. The Chamars calling Bhagat Ravidas Jee as "Guru" is a recent event in our history, probably dating back to the Singh Sabha movement. They don't really have any proper Sampradayak link going all the way back to Bhagat Ravidas Jee. It is more of a reaction to Jatts. They see the Khalsa Panth as being a Jatt Panth while they are trying to form their own Chamar Panth in the form of Ravidasia Panth. But the song is well sung.
  6. das jee has quoted some excellent Gurbani tukhs. Everyone should have them KaanTh.
  7. With so much bad news in the Panth, finally some good news. This made my day.
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