Kameena Navjot Sidhu

[BhagatSingh]

Then you need to contemplate the gurbani more.

For example, when Guru Nanak Dev ji says -

ek Krishan ta sarab deva dev deva ta atma

What does he mean? Why does he says that Krishna is the divinity of all gods, and the divinity of the soul?

Another example, when Guru Arjun Dev ji says -

Saval sundar roop banaveh bain sunat sabh moehga

What does he mean? Why does he say that Waheguru, assumes a dark-skinned form, and plays a flute?

Another example, Bhagat Namdev ji says,
Dhan dhan tu Mata Devaki, jeh greh ramaiya kavalapati

Why does he say that Mata Devaki is blessed because she gave birth to All-Pervading Waheguru?

Contemplate on what they are saying.

And you need to further contemplate the things I asked about.

When I asked "what does it mean to be human?"

All you could say was that "I am human". It shows you have yet to contemplate what a human is.

When I asked "where does Waheguru come into your experience of being human?"

You gave no answer. It shows that you have yet to contemplate the real nature of a human being.

When I asked "What did you find out in the ongoing process of you(I) becoming zero?"
You gave no answer. It shows that you have yet to become zero, you have yet to lose yourself (I) to Him.

It shows you are just paying lip service, just saying things without any actual experience of the thing, of the words that you are using. Words like One, becoming zero, Waheguru, human, etc. You have yet to experience them.

That said it also show yours strengths. These show in answers like these:

"Waheguru helps me being one."

"It means to immerse oneself in Waheguru's name, in Gurbani."

"Then one is one with The One."

"In reality, you(I) become zero."

It shows you have knowledge of what to believe in, and that you are working towards it.

Conclusion:

I suggest that instead of focusing on Sidhu you focus on your own spiritual development. From what I know about him, he has already developed himself spiritually a great deal. You need only be concerned about your own spiritual journey. So you should focus on strengthening your strengths and weaknesses. These questions will show you your a few of your strengths and weaknesses with regards to spirituality.

Cheers!

[OnPathToSikhi]

Then you need to contemplate the gurbani more.

Agreed.

It shows you are just paying lip service, just saying things without any actual experience of the thing, of the words that you are using. Words like One, becoming zero, Waheguru, human, etc. You have yet to experience them.

No comments here.

Your own knowledge about Gurbani seems very limiting. Looks like you are enforcing that limit on you yourself.

From what I know about him, he has already developed himself spiritually a great deal.

A murderer being played out very well by the bjp goons. You are one of them. Concluded.

[BhagatSingh]

the bjp goons. You are one of them. Concluded.

I don't know what that is. If you are trying to put me down it's not working.

A man should know who is talking in their favour and who is not, and respond accordingly. If you use bitter words for your allies then you will just turn them away and that won't harm anyone but yourself.

Be careful with how you use your words. It's better to say "No comments here" and move on.

[OnPathToSikhi]

I don't know what that is. If you are trying to put me down it's not working.

I am just giving you the facts. Don't like them, it is up to you.

Be careful with how you use your words. It's better to say "No comments here" and move on.

I have abundance of more comments. navjot giddad sidhu is a tankhiya.

Aa vekho pakhandi diyan kartootan:

[amar_jkp]

"Sikh religion"? Is it the same as Sikh Dharma?

In Sikh religion, there is no condemnation of any Avatar o prophet and there is no attempt to give the deficiencies of any person"

Really, you think so?

If Hindu (as in Sanatan) avatars have been eulogised chapter after chapter, if Hindu concepts have been reiterated, if Gurus lived and died like Hindus (following their rituals); if "sikh dharma' is not mentioned even once even in later granths; how Sikhi is diff from Hinduism/Sanataism?

Now do not give me the lame argument that Allah and jesus are also mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib so why Sikhism is not the same as Islam or Christianity. It is about the central theme the theology. There is absolutely no difference between Sikh theology and the one followed by many sects (panths) under the umbrella of the indic Sanatamism (called Hinduism by the colonialists and foreigners dating back to Arabs).

Gurbani Concerning Hinduism

“Many Shashtras and many Simirtis have I seen and searched them all. Nanak, they equal not Lord God's invaluable Name.” (Ang 265)

“You worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Lord God. Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways.” (Ang 332)

“The Pandits, the religious scholars, the teachers and astrologers, and those who endlessly read the Puraanas, do not know what is within; God is hidden deep within them. || 4 ||” (Ang 419)

“The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way. As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind. The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||” Ang 556

“Why worship gods and goddesses, O Siblings of Destiny? What can we ask of them? What can they give us? The stone gods are washed with water, O Siblings of Destiny, but they just sink in the water.” (Ang 637)

"The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them." (Ang 875)

"I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other." (Ang 1136)

"I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers." (Ang 1136)

"I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim." (Ang 1136)

"I have abandoned both the Pandits, the Hindu religious scholars, and the Mullahs, the Muslim priests. ||1||Pause|| I weave and weave, and wear what I weave. Where egotism does not exist, there I sing God's Praises. ||2|| Whatever the Pandits and Mullahs have written, I reject; I do not accept any of it. ||3||" (Ang 1158)

"They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labor. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service." (Ang 1160)

"The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain." (Ang 1264)

If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? According to the Hindus, the Lord's Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1|| (Ang 1349)

"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh)

"Mahadev called himself eternal; Vishnu called himself Supreme, Brahma called himself lord; none of them realized the Transcendent Lord. All those sages created by Hari, They propagated their own Simritis, the way by which one can enshrine the Lotus feet of Hari in mind, they did not adopt that way of meditation. Brahma produced the four Vedas but those who love the Lotus-feet of Hari rest outside the attachment of the Vedas. Prophet Mohammad was created by the Lord. He was made sovereign of Arabia. He also created a new Dharma and the circumcised (Muslims) became supreme. All were forced to meditate on his name (Mohammad Rasul). Nobody remembered the Name of the True Lord. Then I (Hari) adopted you as my Son so that you may start the Khalsa Panth. Everywhere you spread the Dharma and instruct the public not to practice chicanery. What the Hari says I (Gobind Singh) utter that, and do not subject myself to anybody’s influence. We do not worship stones, neither adopt various garbs. We do not keep matted hair nor wear ear rings. We do not subject ourselves to anyone’s influence. We perform whatever God ordains. I have come for this in the world. The Lord sent (me) to uphold Dharma. All the Avtars (Prophets) that have been before proclaimed themselves only." (Bachittar Natak, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

"Some say the Muslim rosary, others meditate by Hindu Mala. Some read Puranas, others read Quran. Both waste themselves in the love of arguments. Lord is distinct from both." (Bachittar Natak, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

"Ever since I have grasped Your feet, I have not thought of anybody else.

I do not accept the doctrines enunciated by various faiths, believing in Ram, Rahim, Puranas and Qoran.

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas mention different concepts but I do not subscribe to any of them.

O God, the Sword-bearer (of justice)! With Your Grace, all that has been uttered by me has been done under Your command.

Dohra!

I have shunned every door and have entered Your door

Please hold my arm and keep my honour, Gobind is ever Your slave." (Raam Avtar, Guru Gobind Singh)

Guru Gobind SIngh Ji on Khalsa:

Day and night they meditate on the Light manifest. Accept the One, and they do not contemplate anyone else. In complete love they keep the form. They never keep faith in fasts, graves, Mausoleums, pilgrimages, ritual charity, false compassion, austerity, false constraints. Except the one, the Lord, they do not recognize anyone. When the Light illuminates the Mind, only then Khalsa is known, distinct and pure. (33 Swaiyas)

[amar_jkp]

Sikh Texts on Distinctiveness of Sikhism

Bhai Mani Singh writes in Gian Ratanavali:

Hajees asked Baba Nanak, "O Saint, are you a Hindu or Moslem?" Then Baba Nanak replied, "I am witness for both."

Gur Partap Sooraj Parkash:

First there were Hindus and Muslims, take note, there are three now. (Gur Partap Surya)

On his way towards Deccan, Guru Gobind Singh reached Pushkar .The discussion that took place there is recorded this way in Surya Prakash.

Brahmins, Merchants and others came with Pandit Chaitin. Having made salutation they sat down in the assembly and asked, “What is their Caste? How we recognize them. Your companions wear unshorn hair, what we can say is their Caste? There are many new garbs, but none of them is Hindu or Moslem.” Having heard that Guru replied, “Khalsa is the third Panth in the world. It is distinct from Hindus and Moslems. They are servants of the Eternal, Immortal.” When Guru Gobind Singh met the Emperor Bahadur Shah, this discussion transpired.

Bahadur Shah said, “There are two religions, Hindus and Moslems, What appeals to you? On what you have faith, Hinduism or Islam?”

To that Guru Gobind Singh replied, "Hindu, Moslems whatever way they follow we wish them both well. The Moslems preach fasting; prayer call and five prayers are supreme for them. Hindus perform Sandhya, adoration and rites of stone Gods, and such others are acceptable to Hindus. We consider both the same way abandoning all others; we have established the Khalsa as the third (religion). Without distinction we abandon all else and seek the shelter of the Eternal, the Purusha." (Gur Pratap Surya)

Rehatnamas:

Khalsa should stay distinct from Hindus and Moslems. (Rehatnama Bhai Chaupa Singh-l0)

Khalsa should remove the domination (influence) of Hindus and Moslems. (Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh-11)

Bhagat Ratnavli:

Not only the baptized Sikhs are separate from Hindus and others, but also stories of Sahajdhari Sikhs tell us that they abandoned other rites and customs and adopted Gurmat. For this see the explanation of the 11th Var of Bhai Gurdas. (Bhagat Ratanavali by Bhai Mani Singh)

Sikhs addressed their supplication, "O True King, the Pundits in Kashmir do not allow the Sikhs to read Bani (Word) of the Guru. They say that Sanskrit is the language of the Gods and the vernacular is the language of mortals. You have abandoned the daily rites and so we are not going to have daily relations with you." Then the Guru asked Sodhi Madho to go to Kashmir and preach Sikhism there.

Gur Bilas and Panth Parkash:

To the two religions was added the Third. Taking the support of Almighty, Guru Gobind Singh created the Khalsa Panth, above the Hindus and Moslems. "Forgetting all ways adopt the Khalsa Panth,” said the Tenth Guru, the Light Incarnate. (Gur Bilas)

Again distinct from the Hindus and Moslems, He said, "Establish I this Panth, powerful indeed." (Panth Parkash)

Conversation between Nadir Shah and Governor of Lahore

It (Khalsa Panth) is distinct from Hindus and Moslems. Distinct and marvelous is their sect. They perform marriage ceremony neither like Hindus nor like Moslems.

Their marriage is Anand ceremony. When a Singh (man) or Singhni (woman) dies, they prepare sacred food and distribute it. They do not perform the Hindu rites and they do not throw the bones (of the dead) in the Ganges. On the tenth day they complete the reading of the Granth and distribute the offerings to the poor. They do not wear the sacred thread, nor put the mark on their forehead. They never worship idols. They worship the One Almighty and do not make obeisance to anyone else. Vedas, Puranas and other (Semitic) books, they do not accept the authority of any. Whatever Guru Nanak said, they keep faith on that. From the same vessel they administer Amrit (baptismal water) to everyone. They all eat together and live like true brothers. They leave behind all caste, Varna, family names, Karma and Dharma of the ancestors. On the contrary, if any Sikh comes to our religion (Islam), on getting the opportunity he goes back and baptizing him they absorb him in their religion.

Tat Khalsa is the representation of the Guru “(they say) it is beyond the coming and going through the life cycles. Hindus are blind, Muslims are one eyed, but really sages are the Sikhs of the Guru” distinct from Hindus and Moslems.

All the customs are different, among them. They do not acknowledge the ghosts at all. They do not recognize graves and cemeteries. They do not go to the Ganges for pilgrimage. They do not consider impure puerperium (state after child birth).

They do not wear the Janeau and do not put the sacred mark. They do not abide by the rites of the Hindus like keeping a Bodi (tuft of hair), Dhoti and Rosary of Tulsi, performing Hom, or Shradh.

They consider their own religion to be better and if somebody calls them Hindu they get angry. They have abandoned all the customs of the Hindus. They live like real brothers, and respect each other. They are greatly united.

A Sikh always sacrifices himself for other Sikhs gladly in time of need.

Another Historic Account:

Bhai Dhesi and Bhai Jodha sought protection of Guru Arjan. They addressed their appeal thus, "O True King, the Pundits do not let us sit in Pangat. They complain, in spite of being Brahmins we have become disciples (Sikhs) of a Kshatriya. We have abandoned the language of the Gods in the Vedas and sing the songs of the Guru in Vernacular, having abandoned Janam Ashtmi, Shivratri, Ekadsi, we feed Sikhs. We have abandoned Gyatri, Tarpan, Sandhya, Pind, Patal, rites of birth and death and perform the Sikh prayer and distribute Karah Prasad after Ardas, as the rites of the dead. O Protector of the humble we have come to your shelter. You have saved us. The egoist Brahman has gone away from us. We have received gnosis and name of the Lord."

[BhagatSingh]

Gurbani Concerning Hinduism

Two things.

1. These teachings for everyone not just particular groups of people. It takes a bit of contemplation to realize which ones fit with yourself.

2. Some of these are translated wrong, one should always strive to read the gurmukhi.

[Guest]

Sri guru nanak dev ji got married around Ikongkar shabad written on leaf, this is confirmed in puratan literature - pre singh sabha time. Even from vedant(end of vedas-gyan aspect in vedas) this makes total sense most vedantis will agree that sri guru nanak dev ji upheld the essence- tat-sat of everything. I mean from absolute view (advaita) perception, everything else is discarded except tat gyan (essence). Since ikongkar/omkar is essence it make perfect sense sri guru nanak dev ji upheld essence of things on foundation of sikhi- got married around shabad-ikongkar than fire or sargun rituals.

Shabad is upheld in Gurmat, whilst creation-three dieties are given respect/glorified- given credit where its due ultimately shabad and shabad gian where all creation rises/subsides in -essence are upheld over anything else.

[OnPathToSikhi]

Hindu followers took their share and Muslims took theirs. What did 'sikhs' get? why they are not even mentioned!!

Moron. How many times to tell you. These "Hindu" & "Muslims" were the Sikhs. You don't get it do you?

[savinderpalsingh]

Total respect for your sentiments Neo but where is that puratan literature? I have given you the name of the Granth from where i derived this information about a havan being performed when Guru sahib got married.

Also, what is the significance of Kandh Sahib Gurdwara in batala?

This is the place where Guru sahib got married BY A PANDIT.

A painting from the Gurdwra showing a pandit and the hawan vedi.

even if the rites were performed by pandit, guru sahib did parikrama around mahamantar which was given to him by Akal purakh .

[amar_jkp]

I would quote directly from Gurbani to counter all these assertions. If there is one tukk which goes against the sanatani grain, there are 10 which confirm gurus' faith in the sanatani tradition.

Also, from his adulthood (when he would have started composing shabads) to his death, show me one instance where Guru Nanakji mentioned (in the indian context) a faith other than Hindus and Islam. What stopped him from saying "i m not a Hindu, I am a Sikh". even after his death, as the fable goes, his body disappeared and only a pile of flowers was left. Hindu followers took their share and Muslims took theirs. What did 'sikhs' get? why they are not even mentioned!!

Anyway my comment was about Sanatani rites being observed during Guru Nanak's (or for any other Guru) marriage which included a havan and recitation of Ved mantras by a pandit. There is evidence that Guru sahib performed his father's shrad before his death. Either accept it like a true sikh should or enjoy your stay in denial (khoo ch baithe raho)

Those Hindu followers were Sikhs and the real Sanatani satans like you were always planning to stabbed Gurus and their Sikhs .

Hindu Attwad Murdabad

Death to Hindutva

[amar_jkp]

Moron. How many times to tell you. These "Hindu" & "Muslims" were the Sikhs. You don't get it do you?

He will not because he is Hindu.