commander

Sounds very civilised. Can you describe the "purpose" to me? To rend/tear/eviscerate/puncture/maim/kill?

How about to defend and to protect?

There is nothing beautiful about ANY kirpan.

You just can't appreciate it.

Think about what that beautiful kirpan would look like lodged in [insert any close relative]'s body.

Yeah, its the weapons that kill people right? So why do we punish the person behind them?

You are wrong. They are something very damaging to the human body, refined over many thousands of years.

They are NOTHING compared to today's weapons. You couldn't even kill close to a million people with a sword in your whole lifetime, yet that feat could be accomplished in an instant with an atomic weapon. And you're comparing the two? Hello?

No. I think you and others like you are stuck in the past. I hope you're just romantics (even though that's harmful enough), because then you can be cured. But if you're realists and you see weapons as things which you might use (as indicated by the fact that you carry them, and have not handed them over to a museum/Sikh heritage group) then there's something wrong with you (which I would like to help you with).

Hey, hippie, I live in the USofA. If you want our weapons, first you're going to have to change the US Constitution. Then you're going to have to come take them by force.

So it's "them first", is it? What about white-collar criminals? Or thugs inside your own home? Criminality is a grey area, but your weapons are unequivocal, you see? You're asking for more from the street thugs (whoever they are) than you yourself are willing to do. Is'nt that a bit optimistic? You're the one who's supposed to be the "good guy", so why don't you be the first to drop the tools, and work towards achieving a better society in which people are'nt so scared of bozos on the street that even supposedly brave ones like Sikhs feel the "need" to carry medieval weapons on them?

I'm not asking anything from the "street thugs". If they are legally allowed to carry weapons, then it's just fine with me. As for "medieval" weapons? Do you think Sikhs don't know how to use guns? When we say "weapons", it includes guns too. Comprendo?

There is no relevance

You just refuse to see it.

I do not agree. Weapons are now integral to Sikhism, to the extent that you find shastars in every gurdwara, nihang or not. Weapons in a house of God? And you say that Sikhs are responsible for this damage to their own psyche? Fair enough, but the time's out now, and it's time to give them up for good.

Weapons have _always_ been in Gurdwaras. Your implication that they've "all of a sudden" become part of us is wrong.

No, that was'nt an obvious nor an irrelevant point. The weapons served Sikh political ambitions during some dark times, and now they are treated as if they have spiritual significance (they do not). War is an instrument of policy. Nothing else. It does'nt redeem anyone to be a violent suicidal maniac, whether their ruler says that his cause is just or not. It's just a waste of a life. "Martyrdom" is a monumental lie.

You've just insulted great Sikhs who gave up their lives for causes you will never understand. If it were up to me, I would ban you right here and now, you troll.

I have decided to write this message for the nihangs and nihang shagirds. Don't say I never told you.

OK

I wish to appeal to you guys to stop thinking in terms of violence. It's great that you're upholding Sikh traditions' date=' for the sake of history and so these things are never forgotten. But please stop the weapons hankering.[/quote']

Weapons are tools that serve a purpose.

Whats with all the trolls lately?

Jagga, you are welcome to "convert" to Christianity any time you want. Why the heck are you here anyways?

Mod(s), if you will be so kind to delete all posts by this troll, I do not think the sangat will mind.

i see...

iono, i kinda liked blasting him. a great way to release stress and anger at other things. but tha's just me...

(i'm joking...)

how would that be beneficial? if we're not willing to listen to all opinions regardless of how "out there" they might seem and address them, we probably aren't as tolerant or open-minded as we claim to be. apart from that, don't u find that topics like this re-affirm ur beliefs or help clarify what u believe?

Dear sukhi, the posts by this person meet the classic criteria for an internet 'troll' (including signing up under a different user name after being banned). His actions and questions are not honorable. We only have a finite amount of time, and I do not want to waste it on such people. And no, posts like his do nothing to help me grow spiritually. I am here to discuss and converse with fellow Gursikhs - like an online sangat. This troll was not here to ask sincere questions, for he had already made up his mind. Rather, he wanted to attempt to show us how backwards he thinks we are in our beliefs.

I figure we should lock all threads started by this troll "newAgeIdiot".

...

Thank you for explaining your views. If I was present before the fall of the British empire and was asked if the Sikhs wanted a separate nation, I would have been hard-pressed to say no. What would you have said?

Currently, I do not endorse the idea of a separate nation for the Sikhs. However, there are numerous advantages to having a separate nation that identifies itself with Sikhi. For instance:

- France probably would never make the mistake it has

- People all over the world woudn't confuse us with Muslims

- All Sikhs of this World would have a place to call home

- We would protect minority rights

- No one would die of hunger; poverty would be almost eliminated

- Look at Israel as an example (Yes, they have their problems)

Ofcourse, given the nature of Human beings (and the state of affairs in Punjab now), there's a good chance if we had a separate nation we would be worse off than we are now, but I would have liked the chance. I sure would have.

I think spirituality is a pre-requisite for faith+religion+dharam.

jbudwal... this is so freaky. i was gonna put up the EXACT same topic... with the EXACT same message.

That's not exactly encouraging :shock:

I would like to address an important issue about state of punjab. Several sources indicate that the Sikh's want a seperate state from India which will be called Khalistan. I do not understand what these Sikhs are thinking of.

Not all Sikhs agree on what exactly is "Khalistan". You need to study up on the history of Punjab since the partition to understand that there are many legitimate demands that Punjabi Sikhs have (and still do).

There really is not much of a difference between hindu and sikh's.

I am a Sikh, not a Hindu. You can call yourself whatever you want, just don't proclaim it for the rest of us.

Our great Guru's kept India as a whole and what right does it give us ask for seperation.

That's what I call thinking like an ant. Imagine the master of the universe, Guru Nanak Nirankaar giving a hoot about a man-made line separating a piece of infinitesimal land into a 'country'. Do you think scores of Sikhs who made the ultimate sacrifice of giving up their lives did it for 'India'?

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought the mughal empire for the sake of religion for everyone in India not just for Sikh's but Hindus as well.

Guru Gobind Singh fought for freedom, period. It's insulting to imply he did it for 'India' - which didn't even exist back then

"Sri Guru" Ram Singh Ji stood up against the British Empire and their sikhs sacrificed their lives for the freedom of India.

I do not recognize "Ram Singh" as a Guru. However, do you think that they sacrificed so much for present-day thankless 'India' or did they have a different idea of what an independent Bharat would be like?

Anyone who thinks of Khalistan should think twice before making any wrongful decision that they might regret later on. I do not think the Sikh's as a whole would survive. The economy and the society would take a huge downfall. Will our Guru's be happy if we take these kinds of actions?

Again, ant-like thinking. Are you just worried about saving your own skin? As long as I can practise my faith freely, I have no desire to label a piece of land. When my freedom is threatened, I will fight for it, as is my right to do so.

What is even sad is, our Sikhi panth is divided as well. We have various Sikhi sects like KALI's (ones who believe in the granth sahib as their guru), Radaswani's (believing in sants) and Namdhari's ( believe in a living guru). The question if the Sikh's cannot live together as a whole, then how can you live in a independent state together???? The Sikh's cannot even agree on what or who is a true Guru. Sikhs fight against each others point of view yet they achieve nothing.

You've brought up many points there, but you will have to elaborate if you want more discussion on them.

The bottom line, Khalistan will not be achieved and if it was achieved, it would not even last that long. I do not think that our Guru's would allow such a thing. As a Namdhari Sikh, i am better off following the orders of my Guru where i can live in peace and in harmony.

That's contradictory, though it's interesting to think about what Guru ji would want the Panth to do today.

Anyone who supports Khalistan, I wish them all the best!

Yeah, whatever this "Khalistan" is

I sometimes tend to think of this behavior along the lines of 'Survival of the fittest'. Those who are weak get weeded out by the social elements.

I haven't made up my mind on whether this is a bad thing since quality is always better than quantity.

uhhhh, it IS the equivalent as it is where we congregate and Christians congregate in Churches. Both buildings are used for the worship of God and mass/sangat. Are you trying to say that the Church is obsolete because they havn't got their own Guru Granth Sahib Ji or are you trying to say that Christians are praying in vain to the "wrong" god.

Not to nitpick, but 'shaka nyorai' is correct - a Gurdwara is not equivalent to a Church. At best, they can be considered similar. For instance, a Gurdwara has Guru-Ka-Langar while a Church, to the best of my knowledge, does not.

Here.. does this ring a bell?

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newAgeSikh [ 49 Posts ]

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I ll let you stay this time if you follow our guidelines otherwise your 2nd id goin to get banned as well.

I would request that you rethink your decision. His deceitful ways should not be welcomed, much less rewarded. His venom against Sikhi should not be tolerated and will be hurtful to visitors of this forum. Do you think that he has anything positive to contribute to this forum?

I think there is no need to carry any arms around in today's word.

May I ask how you came to that conclusion? It is a fact that most amritdhari Sikhs carry a Kirpaan these days only as a show-piece, but that only demonstrates how much of a "Khalsa" they really are. They can't defend themselves, much less anyone else.

Will you even go so far as saying that martial training is not required in "today's world"?

So, who's who in the pics?

BTW, Rikki, are you related to "newAgeSikh" by any chance? Maybe by IP?

I believe that the people...

I don't even know how to respond to this farcical load of BS. Are you high or something?

-- 'Can a non AmritDhari Sikh become a Gurdwara priest'

If not then whats the difference between that 'AmritDhari Sikh and Brahmin in Hindu society'.

That's an absurd comparison. Could you become a Brahmin if you wanted to?

-- 'Can a Sahjdhari Sikh perform Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, Amritsar'

If not then whats the difference between a Sahjdhari Sikh and Shudra in ancient Hindu society as in today's Hindu society Shudras are allowed to go into the temples.

Again, an absurd comparison. First, a Sehajdhari to me is someone who maintains his kes, and does naam simran as best he can. As for Keertan, even non-Sikhs have performed Keertan at the Darbar Sahib in the past. Anyone who accepts the Guru is welcome to partake in the Amrit, even a "Shudra".

A community cannot grow beyond these pit falls if people like me won't question. Might is right seems to be the motto now a days in Sikh community. Whether you take up the election to Gurudwara's board or Akal Takhat.

Take a careful look at your posts. You assume, mock, deride and insult. There is no humility in your manner. These are not the ways of a Gursikh.

Let me make it really clear that

YOU DON'T Know the Sikh Religion.

Because if you know you do know that Gurbani says

"Hum Nahi Changee Bura Nahi Koi".

So I don't fear for my life and know no enemies.

You are an overly obssessed AmrithDhari who feel proud to carry the Kirpan. But in the essence forget that it has no bearing in today's society. you cann't even kill a dog with that else save yourself on US crime fested downtowns.

Do you think I Sikh with his turban and Kirpan is safer than a Sikh with no turban and no kirpan?

You must be dreaming if you think you are more safe with a Kirpan and Turban, while it might be the other way.

If you are so particluar about saving your life then carry AK-47 and wear Helmet that make more sense and is logical with your physche if you believe in the following:

"HUM HI HAI CHANGEE BURAE HAI SARI DUNIYA"

There you go with the assumptions and insults again. Your philosophy of Sikhism in action, right?

Let me give you the meaning too as I know you just follow blindly and don't try to find even out what it means.

Yeah, I typed them without knowing their meaning :roll:

It is true when some comes to kill you, you have the right to bear arms.

How are you going to know when someone's coming to kill you?

But who tells you that it is right to keep the arm with you ever where there by increasing the animosity between human being.

A Kirpaan is more than an 'arm'. Besides, ever bothered to look the U.S. Constitution?

When there is no need to bear arm, then the arms should be left home and not to be carried with you.

And who's going to tell me when I'm in need of it, you? The Government?

Also talk about the today. The Kirpan you have won't help you or your loved being, You in this case start bearing AK-47 and a Helmet not turban 24 hours.

This doesn't make any sense. You'll have to elaborate. What does a Kirpaan have to do with an AK-47?

The lines mean when the need be then bear arm and not wear these 24 hours.

Again, how are you going to know when you need it? Ask a fortune teller?

SO that why I said you are a blind follower and doesn't know what the religion is.

Thank you for the personal attack. I knew you'd get there, eventually. You must be proud.

The true Philosphy of Sikhism begining with Guru Nanak to Guru Arjun Dev with Sthapana of Guru Granth Sahib in 1604 is to promote harmony, purifying souls, bringing people together and search for truth and nothing else.

What does this "true Philosophy" dictate one should do when someone comes to kill him? Talk him to death? Do you have the audacity to think that Guru Nanak Nirankaar did not know what was coming? What shape would Sikhi be in, what identity would we have, if we had adoped this "true Philosophy" of yours?

Chu kar az hama heelte dargujasht,

Halal ast burden ba shamsheer daste.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

:twisted:

There seems to be a shift in the philoshphy of Sikhisim after Guru Arjun Dev.

You have neglected to mention what you think is the "philosophy of Sikhism", what "shift" you think took place and how you reached your conclusions. Without this information, it is very difficult to answer your question.

In no particular order, Volleyball, Cricket, Football (American), Badminton and Basketball.

Welcome.

The best and the easiest way is to find someone to teach you (preferably someone's style you like).