user2969

Listen brothers, I know what you are trying to say but try and get the point I am trying to convey. Casteism does exist in Sikh community, of course. And the fact that in many places there are gurdwarey such as Mazabhi, ramgarhiya, ravidassia gurdwarey. But nobody stops anyone from visiting any gurdwara. A mazhabhi does matha-tek in other gurdwarey and nobody objects. Same with langar. The individual cases of dispute are about control at the village and dispute is never truly religious in nature unlike Hindu community where the dispute is truly religious in nature.

The issue in the video you posted is a dispute about labour wages. In the second video it talks about discrimination, which I agree does exist. But the discrimination is about control and management. Its not about rules of who can visit which place. not a officially socially accepted norm. It has always been a deviation from the norm. That is why I said till now I have never seen a case of any dispute in my personal life. My rishteydarian are spread out all over southern Panjab with my own village in Haryana near Kaithal, my relatives in Patiala, Sangrur, Nabha. My Nanke in Faridkot district, my massian in Bathinda region, my Bhuaa jis in Fatehgarh Sahib region, my other relatives in Ludhiana etc. The individual cases are mostly rooted in other reasons such as control and caste domination and not truly religious issue. Yes caste observations is a social fact in all punjabi communities. But you can travel all over Punjab and see that even though people follow caste practices, there are no norms such as low caste being openly banned from visiting a Gurdwara. Its a complex issue to explain and all I can say is, do not form a final opinion based upon one or two news report which are often politically manipulated. 

​Out of the many can you name one Gurdwara which refuses entry to a Dalit? ਇਹ ਬੜਾ ਵੱਡਾ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਲਾਇਆ ਐ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਤੇ . ਹੁਣ ਸਾਫ਼ ਕਰੋ ਕਿਹੜਾ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਾ ਐਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ? ਕੋਈ ਕਰ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਕਿਸੇ ਜਾਤ ਦੇ ਅਧਾਰ ਤੇ ਵਿਤਕਰਾ ਕਰਨਾ ਕਨੂੰਨੀ ਜੁਰਮ ਹੈ . ਤੇ ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਵੀ ਵੱਡੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕੀ ਥੋਨੂ ਪਤਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀ ਦਲਿਤ ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਤੋਂ ਉੰਨੀ ਇੱਕੀ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਨੀਂ ਕਰਦੇ , ਮਰਨ ਮਾਰਨ ਤੇ ਉਤਾਰੂ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਨੇ. ਸੋ ਇਹ ਜੋ ਕੋਰਾ ਝੂਠ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਬਾਰੇ ਦੱਸੋ . ਤਾਂ ਕਿ ਗੱਲ ਸਿੱਖ ਜਗਤ ਦੇ ਮੂਹਰੇ ਆਵੇ ਤੇ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਦਰੁਸਤ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕੇ.

​I have lived all my life in Punjab, I have not seen a single gurdwara which refused entry to a dalit. Nor was anyone refused in langar. Yes it might have been the case in distant past but not now. Yes there are gurdwaras which are created by particular community and managed by them. But the segregation is limited to management and control. Nobody is refused entry to Mattha-tek SGGS or partake langar. This is a lie.

The point to going and attending somewhere is whether you shall be able to conduct yourself with a respect and dignity that becomes a gursikh. If you shall be able to conduct yourself like a Gursikh you can go to a prom or anywhere else. At a prom probably there might be flirtations with opposite sex, there will be liberties taken, there might be alcohol or some drug or something like that. Ask yourself what kind of environment would there be? Would there be focus on looking sexy and attractive and impressing others and looking cool? All these values are not in line with being a gursikh.

One of the popular techniques of simran is swas swas simran. When the breath goes in 'Wahe' is uttered and breath comes out 'Guru' is uttered. My question is how can one say 'Wahe' out loudly when inhaling?

In these links although it is claimed that Wahe is uttered while inhaling, but I can not understand how it is possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jP10mUHSo

Can anyone explain this please?

Please forgive me for not being updated on the issue, but this phenomenon of sikh girls being exploited by muslim guys, is this quite widespread or large? Here is Canada I have not heard much, although I do have have seen a few sikh girls married into other religions. But then I am not in the youngsters group so I may not know much.

Does anybody have a pdf copy of 'Anand Sarovar- Jeevan Katha of Sant Baba Nand Singh ji'?

I have searched online and the file is to be found only on scribd.com. And although I am reading on scribd, I am finding it VERY frustrating. As popular a website as scribd is, the interface is extremely frustrating. I hate it. I need a pdf copy which I can read in my Foxit reader.

Please share if anyone has a copy.

"Let us get even a settee amount of autonomous land, and we'll make the rest ourselves" Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bindranvale.

Also remember during partition of India in 1947 one thing good about the British is that they offered us Khalistan, nobody else did.

I can bet you were brought up in India. Most of us from there have the Ghulam Pravirti. We talk a lot and try to sound intelligent but in our hearts we hold 'Angrez' in a very high esteem. If an Angrez says a word condescending praise our chest fills up with pride. And in our heart we actually do not hold grudge that it were the Angrez who connivingly usurped the Sikh State. All we remember about the British is that they gave us the governance, the trains and the roads. And since they offered us a choice for our homeland in the end their every doing of the past automatically becomes okay.

No further discussion of the topic? Coming from another forum where the thread on topic has been the top one since Gurbaksh Singh ji started his fast with updates everyday, www.sikhawareness.com seems to be lacking in panthic feeling. The issue raised by Gurbaksh Singh ji should have struck a chord deep in hearts of everyone who feels him/herself to be a part of panth.

In one of his kathas shown on alpha etc. Maskeen Ji mentions that if anyone asks him to show them a Brahamgiani, Maskeen Ji sends them to a man called Baba Bahadur Singh of Kanpur (near Gwalior, I think).

In which katha does he mentions this. Can you please link to it? And can you please tell us the address of Baba Bahadur Singh ji too?

The translation of the Shabad is incorrect in my view. Instead of being an indication towards usage of Pranayama the Shabad actually is a warning and a comment that pranayama can not lead you to union with Waheguru.

To understand the import of the Shabad one has to see that the Rahao lines are always the main theme and from them one can find out whats the correct Bhaav of the Shabad. The Rahao lines are:

ਮੂੜੇ ਕਾਇਚੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾ ॥ ਨਹ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Oh fool why are you lost into this bharam (of pranayama)? By this way you have not realised (cheeneya) the Parmanand (Waheguru) by becoming a true bairagee.

Some points:

1. The lines have been addressed to a so called bairagi who has given up societal living and has spent time doing practices such as pranayama and other yogic techniques but has not been able to realize Waheguru yet.

2. There is a strong reprimand that the addressee has been indulging in something futle (which from the context one can see to be as pranayama).

3. It is also clearn that the way addressee has been going, on that way Parmanand cannot be cheeneya jaye (experienced or realized).

So what is the final word of Guru ji in this Shabad? It is in this line:

ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਨੋ, ਰਵੈ ਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੋ, ਮਨ ਪਵਨ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥

Sayeth Nanak Jan, if you remember the Hari in your mind, the mind shall drink Amrit along with Pawan (every breath/prana movement)

Some points:

1. The way to meet Waheguru according to Guruji is 'To Remember Waheguru within the Mind'.

2. If this is done, the mind shal drink Amrit with every pawan, every breath. This is indicating towards Swaas Swaas Simran, remembering Waheguru with every breath. This is the Bhagti Maarg! Remember Waheguru!

Here is a translation:

ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

ਸੂਰ ਸਰੁ ਸੋਸਿ ਲੈ, ਸੋਮ ਸਰੁ ਪੋਖਿ ਲੈ, ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਰਤੁ, ਸੁ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥

Dry up the surya Saru/pond (fiery nature), fill up the moon pond(cool/shaant nature), with the Jugti (Swas swas simran, as pointed out in the final line) kill your ego, and this way establish a relationship with Waheguru

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ, ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ, ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ. ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੧॥

With the Jugti (swas swas simran) the fish like movement of mind is stopped, the soul shall not fly away from Waheguru and the body shall not be ravaged by desires.

ਮੂੜੇ ਕਾਇਚੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾ ॥ ਨਹ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

O fool why do you loose yourself in delusion (of pranayama)? You have not experience the Parmanand (Waheguru) by being a true Bairagee.

ਅਜਰ ਗਹੁ ਜਾਰਿ ਲੈ, ਅਮਰ ਗਹੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਲੈ, ਭ੍ਰਾਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਿ, ਤਉ ਅਪਿਉ ਪੀਜੈ ॥

(With the same Jugti) catch and burn the unburnable, catch and kill the deathless, leave aside all doubts, then you shall drink the Amrit.

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ, ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ, ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ, ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੨॥

--as above--

ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਨੋ, ਰਵੈ ਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੋ, ਮਨ ਪਵਨ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥

Sayeth Nanak Jan, if you remember the Hari with (all) your mind, the mind shall drink Amrit along with Pawan (every breath/prana movement, swaas swaas simran)

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ, ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ, ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ, ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੩॥੯॥
--as above--

Lastly I feel that this does not mean pranayama is something we should all run away from as being a sin. Its just that Guru Nanak's Bhagti Marg is Swas Swas simran and that Waheguru cannot be met by breath control. He can be met by Apaa Varna ( sacrificing oneself completely), by remembring Him all the time , every moment, and this is done through every Swaas.

From a linguistic point of view I shall try and explain. I shall give some detailed background before answering your specific query.

ੳ ਅ ੲ ਸ ਹ
ਕ ਖ ਗ ਘ ਙ (K varga)
ਚ ਛ ਜ ਝ ਞ (Ch varga)
ਟ ਠ ਡ ਢ ਣ (T varga)
ਤ ਥ ਦ ਧ ਨ (t varga)
ਪ ਫ ਬ ਭ ਮ (P varga)
ਯ ਰ ਲ ਵ ੜ (Y varga)
ਸ਼ ਖ਼ ਗ਼ ਜ਼ ਫ਼ ਲ਼

All the K varga sounds are produced from the back part of the tongue by touching it with the junction of the soft palette and hard pallette of the roof of the mouth.

All the Ch varga sounds are produced from the middle part of the tongue by touching it with the hard pallete of the roof of the mouth.

All the T varga sounds are produced by turning the blade of the tongue backwards and touching it with the hard pallette of the roof of the mouth.

All the t varga sounds are produced by touching the blade of the tongue with the ridge of the from teeth.

All the P varga sounds are produced by closing the lips together.

The first line, the Y varga and the pairi-bindi varga are produced from various places.

And now to the specific query.

First let us understand what sound is produced with the letter ਙ. Since it falls in the K varga it shall produced by touching that part of the tongue with the roof of the mouth as are all the letters before it. So try and speak the letters ਕ ਖ ਗ ਘ. You would see that one particular part of the tongue is raised and touched with the roof of the mouth. You must use the same part to speak the letter ਙ. Now what is this sound?

This sound is used in punjabi in a hidden manner. it is no longer used in an open manner. Let me give an example. Take the word Ganga. lets break the sound linguistically.

ਗੰਗਾ = /ਗ/ + /ਙ/ + /ਗ/ + /ਆ/

There are 4 sounds used in speaking the word Ganga and these are as shown above. So from here we now know which sound is represented by the letter ਙ. It is the sound which is represented by the tippi in word Ganga or Kanga.

Now what is the name of the letter ਙ? How do we speak the letter out as oorha, eirhi ? You say it something like unga. Actually while speaking /g/ sound is produced but in a very soft manner.

Here is a link to my dropbox audio file pronouncing this sound.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/964untbuf0upk7m/Voice%20001.m4a

Similar is the case with the letter ਞ

And here is how to pronounce it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfymsxm0a4mi34g/Voice%20002.m4a

Brief points:

1. Kaam (desire/lust) has been counted as the first one amongst the five enemies of the jeev-aatma. Kaam is lust for anything NOT just sex. The word comes from Kaamna, desire.

2. Another enemy is 'Moh' or attachment. This refers to the feeling of taking this world, the possessions and people to be true and everlasting and not wanting to let go of them. It also refers to forgetting that we ourselves are impermanent and dying every moment (physical)

3. Sexual relationship apparently fosters both of these enemies. But saying it as a matter of fact, after some time of married life, interest in sex settles down to a comfortable level naturally once you are over the excitement of it.

4.Although Kaam is to be overcome, there is no need to abstain from sex forcefully. When you adopt a spiritual attitude in life and you connect more and more with Gurbani, it shall go down naturally, it is not to be forced.

5. As far as taking Amrit is concerned, one should never hurry it up. One should first start living the lifestyle, get up at amrit vela, do Nitnem, do Naam Jaap, get acquainted with various Baanis. After at least a year or so of this lifestyle when you are sure you can live it up, then go for it.

6 The focus should not be on abstaining from sex and being worried over krodha or being worried that you shall develop attachment. The focus should be to connect with Gurbani more and more and to do Simran more and more.

It's because we teach a skewed form of our history and we dont quite get the world we live in. If you live in a predominantly muslim area you cant expect not to be dragged down with them.

In the 80s Sikhs used to encourage their boys to get educated but told the girls they might as well just get jobs after school as their husbands would look after them financially. This caused a 'class gap' to form where boys were well educated and had gone to unis and mixed with white girls where as Sikh girls had gone and got jobs and stayed working class. The paki boys werent that smart but were more on the same level as the Sikh girls and they could relate. Sikh girls were too stupid to see what was going on. A lot of other Sikhs didnt care. Living so close to them and not knowing the other tricks the sulleh have just goes makes most of this grooming go over most Sikh's heads.

Even today the way religion is taught gives girls a skewed view of men that they convince themselves that what they see is true even though the reality is different.

Teaching your girls that everyone is the same and that everyone is good just leads to a quixotic viewpoint in these girls. They hear that and grow up around Sikhs who get up to all sorts and are far from the perfrect model of humanity that we like to convince ourselves everyone else is like. They also grow up in poor ghettoed areas and make the mistake of linking their poverty in upbringing to Sikhs as community rather than realising the realities of immigrant development and their own recent history. Once they go out in the big bad world and come across some gorah or sulleh or kaleh they are like lambs to the slaughter. All a gorah has to say is 'oh you guys are the ones with the golden temple right? oh man you guys are so cool and you fought for us in the world wars, man I would love to know more about you guys and increase my spirituality' , and whereas a typical asian girl would think 'oh great a perv with an asian fetish', sikh girls are like 'omg! he says he likes my religion so he cant be a racist! wow I could save him and make him a Sikh and my family would love him and we could get married and have piles of mixed race babies and everyone would love us and we just be perfect! I would get to know a white family and feel accepted and not be an immigrant no more! Oh Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru!', rather than realising he probably says it to any girl who will listen. The girl gets into a relationship and gives the guy the one thing he wants. If he sees there is no sexual/social/money reason to stick around he just tells her it wont work out and goes off to give the line to the next girl. If there is a reason to stick around they end up like those couples you see in London. The Sikh bint then has to evaluate what just happened if she gets dumped. She's too perfect so it cant be her (lol). The bloke is perfect so it cant be him (lol). Sikhi is perfect so it cant be that. Of course it's those dirty smelly Punjabis in the wider family and community! They ruin everything! They should have worshipped the bloke and gone overboard to make him stay and not driven him away! At this point the girl goes in overdrive hating on her own community and causing the rest of us grief until she gets used and dumped a few more times before it sinks in what is going on. At that point she wants an arranged marriage to a rich Sikh bloke if some gorah doesnt see a reason to get married to her first.

Even if girls know this they still fall for other tricks. People like to hit on a girl from a different race and if they cant get their way they call her racist. No one likes being called racist right? Dumb girls fall for that as well. Sometimes this boils down to an intelligence thing.

Sulleh on the other hand try the forbidden thing or play on girls boredom or unhappiness within their community. Trying to get girls to be more religous aint going to help. Involving and including them in the community and not raising them solely to be good housewives would help. That doesnt mean trying to stick turbans on them or keeping them in the Gurdwara all weekend. It means doing things that real culture does. But hobbies and wider culture arent flavour of the month amongst us.

Kaleh play off being cool and again use the thing about giving girls something they dont get in their own community. When their living in a council flat with a kid they suddenly arent so proud of what they've done but it's too late by then.

At the end of the day look after the women in your family and wider community. Keep an eye out and do something. Nothing criminal, but reason with them. Show them what is really going on and how they are being used. Raise them with the self respect and intelligence they need to not turn into victims. Raise your sons to want women like that.

Well put.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਆਕਾਰ - ਹੁਕਮ ਦੇ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਆਕਾਰ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇਥੇ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਨੂੰ ਬਿੰਦੀ ਲਗਾ ਬੋਲਨਾ ਹੈ. It means THROUGH Hukam. Here it does not stand for Hukmee the God. Here it means Hukmeen, THROUGH Hukam.

But how can SGGSJ be perfect if it is grammatically wrong? Just as the Quran has perfect Arabic grammar, the Hindu scriptures have perfect Sanskrit Grammar, the Buddhist scriptures have perfect Pali grammar then why would SGGSJ is different in this regard? Or does grammar not matter for the Sikhs? I always read that the Gurus had all divine knowledge. They are infallible, perfect in every way yet they would write something that would be grammatically wrong? That would imply the Gurus were not infallible, is that the impression we would want Muslims and Hindus to have?

I know this is an old thread but I wish to add a reply to this question as nobody else has answered it and new readers may think that the questioner has a valid point that Gurus did not follow grammer properly or fully and that Gurbani is not according to grammer. Mithar said that Quran has perfect Arabic grammer so why does SGGSJ is different in this regard.

According to the Mithar's logic:

Quran is written in the Arabic language and that is why it follows Arabic grammer.

Hindu scriptures are written in Sanskrit language and therefore they follow Sanskrit grammer.

Question arises, in what language is SGGS written? and which language grammer should SGGS follow?

Language of Gurbani

The basic language of Gurbani is Sadh Bhasha or sadhukri, which was an amalgam of all major north indian language of the time. As for vocabulary Gurbani uses vocabulary from punjabi, brijh bhasha, sanskrit, arabic, persian and lot of other north indian languages.

Grammar of Gurbani

It has to be kept in mid that Gurbani is poetry. When you listen to a poem in punjabi you understand the meaning of the lines even though the subject, object and verb sequence does not follow the standard grammar. how? Because you in the background of the previous knowledge of the punjabi prose language you can easily see the variation and still derive meaning out of it. Similarly is the case with Gurbani.

So what is the issue with Gurbani Grammar?

When Gurus wrote Gurbani down they used a particular script and this script is known as Gurmukhi. While doing so they used unique spelling structures in which sihari, and aunkarh and other lagaas and matraas lent special meaning to the words according to their placements. In Gurus times these rules of lagaas and matraas were implicitly known and therefore the need to explicitly teach these or write these rules down never came up.

In modern times people like Prof Sahib Singh analysed the spellings and tried to discover the rules of these spellings or lagaa/matraas. But they were not 100% successful in finding out all the rules. There were many places of confusion and doubt. Therefore it is said that perfect Gurbani Grammar is yet to be discovered.

Is Gurbani independant of a grammar?

Many people, when they encounter a difficult gurbani pankti which cannot be understood according to the presently discovered Gurbani grammar, say that Gurbani is independent of a grammar. But they are wrong.

Why? Because: As long as a communication of a language is meaningful, it can NEVER be considered to be independent of a grammar, simply because grammar is just a description of inherent and hidden structure and meaning rules being followed in that communication. So while a meaningful sentence may not follow a particular grammar or a grammar rule it does NOT mean it does not follow ANY grammar rule. It simply means that we have not yet understood the rule it follows.

Here I'd like to re-iterate that Gurbani grammer is basically grammer of Gurbani's Lagaas and Matraas. The issue of understanding a Gurbani grammer is about deciphering why an aunkarh is used and why a sihaari has been used etc etc. The issue is of DECIPHERING the SPELLINGS, THE LAGAS AND THE MATRAS. It is NOT the spoken aspect but the written spellings which are the issue. Some spellings have been clearly understood while some have not yet been understood.

Confusion between the terms 'Gurmukhi' and 'Punjabi'

Punjabi is a language and Gurmukhi is the SCRIPT. Gurmukhi is the name of the punjabi alphabet (oorha, airha etc), also known as the varanmaala. Punjabi is the language which is spoken and understood. It should be pointed out here that Gurmukhi is NOT the only script in which Punjabi is written. In Pakistan Punjabi is written in SHAHMUKHI script, the urdu script. Any student of MA (Punjabi) knows this, that scores and scores of medieval manuscripts including kissa kaavs such as Waris Heer, Puran Bhagat Kadaryaar are mostly written in Shahmukhi script. So in olden times when Sikh students used to learn 'Gurmukhi' in gurdwaras they were NOT learning a language, they were learning a script, a way of writing the language down. It was another matter that along with that they were also Gurbani which uses not only punjabi but also other languages.

What is language and when does Grammar come in?

Ask any linguistic professor of a university (eg Prof Jagjit SIngh from PU Chandigarh or anybody from Punjabi University Patiala ) and he shall say, 'A Native speaker always speaks perfect Grammar!'. Why? To understand this we have understand the relationship between grammar and language.

When a cultural group communicates using vocal medium it reaches a point where its 'language' becomes complex ie the token sounds evolve into words which are not just 'names' of things, but also names of 'action' and names of qualities etc. And these tokens are sewn into complex formation known as sentences. These complex formations, the sentences, are themselves of various types, sizes, length etc and they come in various regional variations. At this point usually a script is created of adapted from pre-existing scripts (such as Gurmukhi script which is a derivative of ancient Brahmi script of India). After a loooong journey in time somebody comes along and decided to sit down and write a Grammar book of that language. He analyses the words and sentence structure of that language and how meanings are created through these complex formations and in this manner discovers the grammar of that language. If this set of rules is accepted by the majority of the population of that cultural group then this grammar becomes a reference point for the future. Usually a standard grammar is just a description of the dominant version of the language. There are always many regional variations and flavours. Modern linguists are of the view that just because these regional variations may differ from standard grammar of a particular language does not mean that they are not grammatically correct.

Therefore when a native speaker speaks, the issue of being grammatically correct never comes up, because grammar is nothing but a description of the abstract and hidden rules that the native speaker follows. Its the grammar who should follow the native speaker and not vice-versa.

... We in the West say a lot, but when it comes down to it it is just triumphalism of those who got here and look down on those still there.

Don't look down on 'those still there'. Most of those who come from cities in Punjab, regret coming here. India on whole is doing a lot well as compared to before in terms of economics. In India for those students who have good marks and good degrees, jobs are available and pretty well paid too. Whereas over here in west we do hard labour most of the time.

( please note that I not saying that Punjab is without problems. There are plenty of them too)

Sikhs here in west talk about Khalistan, whereas nobody in Punjab even mentions that let alone want that. Creating a Khalistan is useless Utopian ideal at least in today's situation.

The focus should be :

1. Becoming better human beings

2. Treating others better

3. Becoming more spiritual (have a desire of spirituality, in our case it will be gurbani, naam simran)

4. Spreading this spirituality to others (but only in a gentle way, not aggressive selling)

5. Fighting for Truth and justice (this of course includes the Sikh issues of the current and past)

If you take the present day Punjab and create a Khalistan out of it, it shall nothing more than a new political state. Will it be a state which runs on high morals? I highly doubt it.