Dynamic_Banda

Firstly RandhiPanthi refers to those who follow the teachings and ways of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh.. and as all AKJ refer to Bhai Sahibs ways as the true official way (such as naamdhridh from the panj) they follow the path of Bhai Randhir Singh and hence can be called Randhirpanthi. Just as those who follow the teachings of Nanak are called Nanakpanthi, and those who follow teachings of Kabir.. KabirPanthi. Taksali, and Nanaksari, are not the same as the AKJ as their maryadas can be traced back to Nirmala Sampardava, as can many sants, They may not class themselves as Nirmalas now but they will not argue against their origins from the Nirmala Samparda. Nihangs I would believe are also another Samparda, Samparda is an order of sikhs who has originated from Satgurus tapee (blessings) where as a jathabandi is an order created under one individual or a group of individuals. Such as Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh. Nirankaris also refer to alot of Satgurus bani but I am sure even you, well especially you would agree they could never be classed as sikhs. !! So saying that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singhs books talk about gurbani and refer to it is justifying his beliefs as pro sikhi is misleading. Read Bachitar Natak. You'll find out what you need to know about SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji from that. Thank you for confirming exactly what I said just in your own way. As a Randhirpanthi you can live your life however you believe is right, but either give credit where its due and admit to having the same system as the naamdharis who have engaged in Sasgras and Naamdridh (Hence the name NAAMDHARI ) many years prior to Randhir Singhs coming or accept yourselfs as a new faction which is a breakoff of sikhism which believes in many similar ideas but is in all right its own religion and belief system in which you refuse the existance of any truth prior to your own.. P.S I have no desire to come to an AKJ rainsabhai...I would rather as you suggested spend my time at some other gurdvara engaging in whatever mahraj blesses me with, be it simran. sasgras. or just darshan of Satguru Ji

Lineage of the Gurus can be found by reading Bachitar Natak, credit is given where credit is due.. Guru Gobind singh ji talks about gaining his knowledge of all the past and so forth by doing tap in his previous existance on mahakaal. Lineage is of importance else why would the bachitar natak go from akaal purakh to the tridevtas to raam krishan etc, and not start with Guru Nanak. Also the gurmantar which we are taught is VAHEGURU when split according to BHAI GURDAS JI's Vaar it gives the names of the four names of God incarnate in the four ages.. So Vaheguru Shabad itself shows a lineage a relation between that which once was and that which is now.. You state all these things are falsehoods.. yet logically the only way you can prove what you believe is through Sant Baba Randhir Singhs own writings, which is fully acceptable.. I have no problem with you using his texts as granths and basis of all your blind faith.. however then you must acknowledge you are a Randhirpanthi.. one who follows the teachings and path of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, there may be many similiarities between your faith and belief and that of Sikhism, just as budhism has many similarities with hinduism as Sadarta (budha) spent many years preforming meditation with hindoo rishis.. and through his own visions and enlightenment started his own movement and faith.. known to all as budhism. In the same way The sas gras, the bana, all have their origins from sampardava of the sikh panth. Either you look at it logically and see that Bhai Sahib Randhir singh picked the best path for himself which was a collection of bits and bobs from different sampardava (which is fully acceptable) and inserted his own ideas here and there.. Or you see everyone else as false and Randhir singh as a Guru type figure who created the Real way based on his books and personal life experiences and interpritations of bani. You ask me why if I have taken Naamdhridh do I tell the lady not to.. Well Naamdhridh was put forward to me with a closed mind, I wasnt allowed to question when I did I met people like yourself, who insisted it was the true and right way and everything else was a faslehood. The only research material provided was Randhir Singhs books. I noticed one thing while speaking to alot of AKJ and that was simply that prior to Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh.. there is no history.. because there was no AKJ.. !! I love Bhai Sahibs idea.. that no matter what was going on he would grab a vaja and do kirtan.. it was kinda funky.. on buses, at demostrations all over the place.. kirtan kirtan kirtan.. thats funky.. and for that I rate him.. but this creation of the true way and so forth.. this is all from the Randhirpanthis, who refuse to accept anything else especially logic..

With regards to the insulence and disregard for other Nanakpanthis and sikhs that Bhai Sahib has shown in his posts.. I put forward these points.. You stated the Naamdharis say their mantar out loud and hence its not the same as naamdhridh.. The Naam is never even spoken out, they will never say the gurmantar out loud in any public place.. which includes the darbar.. Their kooking is not them shouting out the naam.. as the naam is not KOOK.. OR kwakrooo.. or whatever.. The kooking comes from the sound of them breathing and holding a note.. similar to the so called reasoning for the headbanging and screaming experienced at Reinsabhais.. Many AKJ followers Randhirpanthi.. state that they scream and so forth in order to cover up those who have engaged in saasgras on stage.. so their noise covers up the real gupt recitation of naam.. You say the naamdhrid is a purataan maryada.. yes I agree but Bhai Sahib Bhai Randir singh.. is not purataan infact hes quite modern as is his religion and belief system.. The Saas gras idea comes from yoga.. and predates Satguru Nanak.. and the whole getting naamdhridh.. comes from the naamdhari maryada.. as does the kooking in public.. Another thing is when you go to a naamdhari amritvela they dont care if you've had naamdhridh or not as they only repeat the saasgras in their hearts and minds.. the sounds we hear.. are just the kooks.. And if you have the idiotic preception that the screaming which occurs at rainshabais is actually naamsimran or saas gras.. then bhai sahib you are very very mistaken and confused.. I am in no way slagging off Saas Gras (real form not the screamin) as I have had naamdhridh and fully respect the maryada. I just refuse to ignore the facts of history.. just to make it out like AKJ is the only way. Gurfateh Ji..

:twisted: There is no need to use insulting language on the net, calling my boy in capitols is represented as SHOUTING on the net. !! Also the word boy can easily be taken as offensive.. You keep asking for a page number well depending on what copy you have of Bhai Gurdas Jis Vaars It will change, as some have translations etc, Some are just the vaars but split accordingling. and others have all the vars, so I provided the Pauree number and the precise location within the Pauree which would be allow you to find the precise location of the text I referd to. !! as you have proven to be completely impotent here is the direct link using sikhitothemax.com http://www.sikhitothemax.com/PageASP.asp?ShabadID=5590 and before u mention to me that sikhi to the max says page one and thats all u wanted, sikhi to the max says page one throughout the Vaars, and to every pauree !! because the vaars are not found on pages but according to pauree !

:twisted: I said I would post the Var of Bhai Gurdas, Its the first var pauree 49, Pauri 49 (Vahiguru mantr) Satijugi satigur Vasdev vava Visana namu japavai. (1-49-1) Duapar satiguru hari Krishan haha hari hari namu japavai. (1-49-2) Tete satigur Ram ji rara Ram jape sukhu pavai. (1-49-3) Kalijugi Nanak gur Gobind gaga Gobind namu alavai. (1-49-4) Chare jage chahu jugi panchain vichi jai samavai. (1-49-5) Charo achhar iku kari vahiguru japu mantr japavai. (1-49-6) Jaha te upajia phiri taha samavai. ||49||1|| (1-49-7) Pauri 49 (Vahiguru mantr) In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu. The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari. In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness. In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited. The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man. When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered, the jiv merges again in its origin. So I guess vaheguru Gurmantar is deeper then just Wonderful, Guru.. And if thats the case for the gurmantar, maybe the whole of Gurbani has a deeper meaning as well as its face value.?? I guess thats why u need prampara and Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaara as a key to understand the Paradox which stems from the BeejMantar, Ek Onkar, :twisted: Lol, So I wonder if Bhai Gurdas Ji is also RSS ????

which part of the rigveda are you refering to yaar? could u please send me the quote and section.. Thanx.

Vaheguru, isnt just a linear thing, with one meanin. just like kaal means time and death, and darkness. its dynamic.. :twisted: in the same way vaheguru gurmantar is dynamic.. and I will add to this post 2nite..

Firstly the idea of totally removing Vishnu Krishan Maharaj, Sri Raam Ji and the so called hindu gods from sikhi is stupid, simply because the Gurmantar "Vaheguru" according to Bhai Gurdas Ji, represents, Va - Vaasdev He - Hari (as in Hari Krishan - Krishan mahraj) Gu - Gobind, (possibly refers to Guru Gobind Singh Mahraj) Ru - Raam (Sri Raam Chandar mahraj) In the jaap of these names we refer to the avtar as a supreme physcial living form of gods light, obvbiously not God God as in the big original one God which everything is a part of, coz we cant even contemplate or comprehend AKAAL (GurbrAKAAAL) Sikh_fauge mentioned hindu not being defined and he is quite right, coz hindu is actually a collection of religions and beliefs, on a geographical basis. However over time it has become custom to call any belief which originated from beyond the indus river as HINDUISM. (This is probably why certain ppl refer to sikhi as a part of hindusim). Im not into any of that interfaith crap that all religions are one, as i believe each is its own, but God is one, so the truth will have many similarities.. Someone stated in an earlier post that the truth is only in sikhi, well thats crap, coz if you look at other religions you will see alot of common aspects, just as every human is different yet we all have similar features. Example, The so called day of judgment/ armageddon return of christ, coming of kalki avtar and mehdi avtar, The return of the massiah, the return of Imam Mehdi, all these are similar views shared by sanataan sikhi (the four sampardava), Hinduism, Judaism Islam Christianity, and certain types of budhism. Obviously over time segregation externally and internally have caused beliefs and ppl to seperate destroying all that which was similar between them. I could carry on but im sure u can find many points to pick on and disagree with, so feel free. but hopefully some1 readin this post will be able to see with a more open mind, INSHALLAH !! and please feel free to research the points further and reply.. Im sure some1 will write a book one day, coz i cant be bothered. !! :twisted: