CdnSikhGirl

@Singh123456777 If you come across any like the above can you pls let me know? I'll buy it (Paypal etc) to have shipped here.

Read back. I already did. I said his post was not the first time I came across the pen names and corresponding to court poets. It's a big coincidence. Also, why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji feel the need to hide behind pen names? And then too why use different ones instead of the same one over all his works? There isn't a clear history whether you like to think so or not. Both sides have compelling historical evidence. Are you mad because in my neutral stance on DG, I actually acknowledged that Sikh Khoj might have come across some compelling evidence that warrants examination??? Instead of finding ever more ways to make girls cry, and feel all big and manly and superior, why not actually post some evidence yourself? At least Sikh Khoj was doing his own research instead of blindly believing whatever others say. And that still doesn't change my position as NEUTRAL. Get over it!!!! It doesn't mean I am 'vulgar' as you accused, nor make me a horrible human being. However, sending unsolicited PMs designed to make someone feel like crap and unwelcome very much DO!!! Hope you feel soo good up on your pedestal, feeling all perfect and superior. Well I bow to you... you made me feel like a piece of sh*t last year. And then continued to do so when I tried to stick up for myself. Congratulations... Does that make you happy you manly man, example of perfection? You even managed to goad Sikh Khoj to leave!! Such a shining example of a human being... you're right maybe I should start treating others like you do since you're the poster child for humanity. I have never seen you once post something positive on this forum... And definitely not about females. Every post you spew accusations and hatred. You want to see people hurt and feel good causing them that pain. You're such an example for all of us to follow... We should start a thread dedicated to you in the Sants sub forum!

Point is, asking someone to leave is rude and inconsiderate... the language does not matter. The means by which you did it is the SAME AS TELLING. It had the same effect... making me feel like crap. Which was unwarranted. Ok so you made a girl feel like crap and cry... CONGRATULATIONS! You are such a BIG man for that! Oh but it was not 'telling' sorry... you were what? Asking nicely??? Your point was to make me feel unequivocally unwelcome. Thats the same thing as telling me to leave. And why do you keep putting an A in front of my alias? Is that how you respond to people? I should call you Achatanga1?

That's different than being forced to marry someone you never had any feeling for to begin with... in marriage you are expected to have sex with them!!! That would feel like RAPE to someone who was forcibly married in an arranged marriage!!! So should she give up ever having a genuine and loving relationship in life to be raped by that man every night? By 'adjust' you really mean they give up - with laves this is called 'breaking' them. Similar situations would like forced child marriage in Islam to old men. Should they give up any chance at ever having a normal and loving marriage to be basically servant and sex slave to the man they were forced to be with?? I don't condone the adultery, but I understand it if that was the situation. But again, I was only extrapolating... those details they "why" are not given, and they are a very important aspect to understand what caused the situation or led to it. Its all fine to say women can charm men and are sexually devious and men think with their ____s but it doesn't give any way to fix it. The WHY is the key to knowing how to fix it. The answer isn't to make all man distrust all women (which is what it does given the way it's written... it's written to point the finger at the woman - but ay least one of those men are also a slut since it takes two to tango and assuming the younger man is also not married to her... makes him just as much a slut IMO) The answer in the above would be to never force someone to marry a person they have absolutely no feelings towards.

I will show who the liar is... he calls me a liar because I posted his unsolicited and unwarranted PMs goading me to leave the forum and wrote that he was "telling" me to leave. Okay, the wording wasn't exactly "telling" me to leave. But asking in a tone that is condescending and made it clear I wasn't welcome. That is the same thing as telling... somehow he thinks it's different and that he was being nice. So since then, he has called me a liar. Out of the blue, and without provocation I received this PM from chatanga1: That started a conversation where he then called me 'vulgar' for standing up for women's rights. So... was he "asking" me nicely... or was he "telling" me??? Or does it even matter? THIS is what he has been going on about the last year, calling me a liar, which is untrue. He's just mad that I outed his unsolicited PMs.

Well what I learn from it is don't force women into marriage with gross old men they don't love. It's wrong... doesn't matter how many times you tell them they are supposed to see their husband as "god" over them, you can't make someone feel love for someone they just don't. Does it make her bad that she followed her heart? I don't think so. Maybe she should have just left the gross old fat guy. But I don't think that is an option for many Indian women who are forced into arranged marriages is it?? Other option? Kill herself... I see the system as what was evil and not her. I dont think her intent was to deceive.

Not to me... I dont think it makes her look like a slut at all. Yes she did deceive them. But the reason I extrapolated that she must have been forced into relation with the older guy is the emphasis on the grotesqueness of how she viewed him... old, fat... etc. It gives the impression that she doesn't want to be with him at all. So why would she be unless she was forced. But the way its written it just makes her look like a slut and deceiver without knowing what caused that situation in the first place. She is very likely NOT evil nor ever had evil intentions... she probably felt trapped married to a gross old fat man who she was forced to have sex with but loved the younger guy. The fact that the background is intentionally left out of the story... the "why" makes it look like the focus is to paint women as decievers and men as their innocent victims.

No that's why I said before all these stories are engineered to make women look like sluts and deceivers.

But she is still victim if she was forced to marry him. Telling someone to see someone else as God but that person you have no feelings for at all doesn't work. You can't force her to love someone she never did. In that case she is the victim. Maybe she should have divorced him or ran away first and not marry him at all but were those options??? I'd cringe if I was forced to marry someone I had no feeling for and is never ever be able to have sex with them... No matter what anyone said about treating them like God. Having sex with them would feel like rape. She was trapped and was a victim in that case. It doesn't make her a slut...

But why would she want to even convince them?? Why was she even having sex with a fat old man to begin with when she had a much more compatible man who was her own age and had more in common with her? No woman would ever do that willingly... it would be gross. So the details in the story making him sound undesireable (fat, old) etc to me are a clue that she really does not want to be with that man and was maybe forced into it. So she is actually the victim in the story and not the evil one. (What other way did she have, to be with someone who she really could relate to??) But the way its written MAJORITY will only focus on SHE used these men and manipulated them behind their backs. Making it seem like SHE was the one who was evil and they were the victims. There is a BIG difference. The motive matters and the background matters.

I was trying to find something positive... but it doesnt actually say she was forced to marry the older fat man. So that was interpolating on my own. I doubt a woman would even have sex with someone she found to be old (creepy) and ugly, especially if she had a younger lover. So why was she even having sex with the older one in the first place, unless she was in a forced arranged marriage where she was 'expected' to. But no matter how hard someone will try to act like they love someone they are forced to spend their lives with, they never really will. So the fault in that case is the parents who forced the arranged marriage (whatever their reasons for doing so). You can't really blame the girl for wanting to be with someone she really cares about instead of a fat old man she was forced to marry by her parents. But of course, all this is speculation. But the story does make her just look to be a slut stringing along both of them. It's known in the story that neither one knew she was with the other... so it was her deciving both of them. So the story without the deeper details on the background as to her motives... makes the reader focus on her just being a slut and the men just being gullible victims, when in all liklihood there is MUCH more to the story which forced her into that position, and likely there was no actual malice intended on her part.

@Singh123456777 Yes I am very interested! This is the exact one I wanted but the seller on ebay wants 139 USD for it. Since it's obviously repro and not damascus is that worth it? I don't think so... I remember vendors selling these things in Amritsar etc for MUCH less! Anyway this design is the one I fell in love with... lionhead at end of handle, bonework on handle, koftgari work on hilt and sheath. But the koftgari work has darker elements that really set off the lighter parts. Many of these have less contrast between the light and dark elements in it and I really liked the darker work on this one. I have seen the same one before so it seems to be mass produced... This or similar: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YNUAAOSwcBhWYzQE/s-l1600.jpg

Unknown factors in the above story: Was the lady forced into marriage with an older man, whom she was never attracted to in the first place? The 'charitar' makes it sound like she willingly choose to sleep with two different men, one of whom was fat, old (compared to her) and unattractive. Thus the story makes it sound like she is just a slut. However, if she was forced into such a marriage with said fat man who she was never attracted to in the first place, and had no feelings for, then our of pure frustration for a companion who was more like herself and had in common with, young, virile, handsome... then possibly that could have driven her to that. So the lesson is? Don't engage in forced arranged marriages. And especially don't force younger women to marry men who are much older and have nothing in common with them?? But again, it says nothing about her situation. As it's written it just makes her look like a slut while making the older man (and the younger one) look like fools... and makes it sound like women just love doing adultery and getting laid.

So its nice that you personally dont hold anything against us as a result of reading that (but are you sure that you dont harbour even the tiniest bit of distrust towards us, or look down on us just a little compared to yourself??) But what I am concerned about worried about is what our Guru thought of women, what was his intent? Was his intent to pit us against each other and cause animosity and distrust, which would then turn into males placing restrictions and more control on women? Did our Guru (and hence our very creator Waheguru Ji) look down on us as women?? THAT matters... and is why many find it difficult to digest him writing something like Charitropakhyan. Aside from the pen names, writing style, lack of clear history, and the fact that the stories are eerily similar to older stories in Hindu tradition. So I hope you can undferstand why some of us have questions...

Teamspeak is the one I was thinking but there are others...

Whoops I meant Toronto is one hour behind us. LOL sunrises east ya know haha so when it's 6 am in Toronto it's 7 am here.

I'm in Nova Scotia Halifax. It's 1 hr behind Toronto.

Not even as an add-in module you could install??

I have a bit of a collection of different weapons etc and I don't know if it's my links to Kashmir but I have fallen in love with the koftgari work kirpans. Do any of you know where I can get something like these at half decent price? And collection aside, do anyone use them as actual kirpans or would it be wrong to use them as everyday kirpan since the background from what I understand it is persian / mughal?? I HAVE seen Sikhs handmaking AND selling these as 'kirpans'. Anyway where I am located I can't anything locally... and interested in collecting so if anyone knows where I can obtain something similar to the following examples pls let me know. I'm looking for no larger than 10" overall length. (as some can actually get in the 13-14" range).

Does having fame somehow make someone more 'right', or does it just mean they are more charismatic? Instead of trying to figure out who to believe why not find out for yourself through actual practice? This is not about who is right or wrong... It's about actual personal experiences, knowing vs believing. Not that you will see this... I know you blocked me lol.

I had to switch to Safari... Chrome all of a sudden won't allow me to post anything! I can read the forum but as soon as I try to type in the text box to reply, it just won't allow me to type anything. Safari is fine. So was there an update recently that made Chrome have issues maybe??

Since I am sure we are ALL wanting to get the simran benefits out of it, we would leave the debates for the forum. Even though we all have disagreements on other things, we can all agree that Simran is important and we all want to benefit from it.

I'm not sure... Admins would have to see if there is an audio chat option as an add in module to the forum software. And then, it would have to have capability to have all mics keyed at once (like they use in gaming running behind the actual game so teams can chat real time to each other without having to take turns 'keying' their mics. It would only work if we can ALL do the simran together and can ALL hear everyone else. The rest is easy.. just setting a time.

I'm not going to make claims that what I heard was in fact Anhad Naad... but I did hear 'sounds' during meditation and simran which were definitely NOT physically originated. And I came across a video recently that gave me goosebumps, because the sound was very similar. The video had sounds from space... the one in particular was sounds from Jupiter but similar sounds can be heard recorded from other sources in space. It's basically electromagnetic energy modulated into frequency range we can hear. It sounds like a chorus of ALL sounds possible, and all frequencies at once. It's very hard to describe, but the recording by Nasa came VERY VERY eerily similar to what I have heard during Simran / meditation many times. And I heard these sounds as if they were right there, physically... but I KNOW they were not physical in nature.

Okay I can acknowledge that there are *some* women who might do these things. But my point was that the effect of reading it, often has Singhs suspecting ALL women and looking at us with distrust and contempt. This has very real implications for us, when Singhs automatically look down on ALL of us without giving us a chance, and using these writings as reason to place limitations on us and call us ALL inherently more immoral than themselves. But just like some women can do these things, so can some men. And in real life, I would hazard this plays out more often at least in the west. As I said, when I was younger I was pressurized for sex by dates. They tried to lure me to do it by telling me they 'loved' me or would 'never leave me' or 'how special I was' to them etc. This to me is the exact same thing Charitropakhyan speaks about but it's males doing it. But for a female reading DG, there is no appropriate warning of being taken advantage of. Now, please before you get your kacheras in a bunch like Ragmaala... its not my intent to make this seem feminist. Why it matters, is that it pertains to what the purpose of DG was. Was DG written for only Singhs to read and not Singhnis? Is there another 'granth' that addresses these things for Guru Ji's Singhnis? (or did he even care about us?) Was the intended effect of Charitropakhyan, to make ALL Singhs hold ALL SInghnis in contempt and trust women less in general? And if it wasn't the 'intended' effect, then certainly Guru Ji would have known it would still cause this thinking in his 'Singhs' which would turn into unfair treatment and disdain towards women in general from his 'Singhs' So, if Guru Ji was the author... did he think lower of his Singhnis than his Singhs or did he just not care what would happen to us as a result of this writing? Because as I said, I have seen it in real life. A Singh try to belittle me using examples from DG, telling me that Singhnis sitting on tabyia etc restrictions are actually not about sootak etc (which are against Gurmat as well) but because Singhs in general look down on us as being more immoral, and us doing seva of SGGSJ we might *desecrate* SGGSJ. In general... he views men as being of much higher calibre than women and so that to him justified restrictions placed on us. Is this really fair? Because it's being practiced in many Gurdwaras! Then he proposed to me and said my soul would be saved by staying at home and having his babies - he wanted to dominate/control me. Others I know (one member in particular on here whom I won't mention) takes it to mean that women are lesser beings, and a downgrade to males and justification for women giving men more respect for their "higher position" over women than women deserve in return - to the point that wives should BOW to their husbands. Of course SGGSJ does NOT teach this at all! So is it fair that I as a woman, am bearing the brunt of it, being distrusted (in general), being seen as lustful, or immoral because of these writings? Even when I would NEVER do any of these things?? Is it fair that I am being seen by Singhs as somehow 'less' than them spiritually simply because I am female, that they look down their noses at me for simply being female... as a result of these writings? And then, the pure absence of such writings also showing men can do these same things either shows that the author did not think men do these things (generally) or that the writing was only aimed at males reading it?? But certainly something that was meant to be 'Gurbani' would be universally applicable for all Sikhs (for males and females)??? Please don't be mad at me for raising these questions. It really matters to me what Guru Ji thought of women... and what he intended for us in life. It matters to me if Guru Ji sees us women as lesser beings. Because Guru = God. And I couldn't live knowing that my very creator thinks less of me, because of the body that was fashioned by that very same creator.