sukrit kaur

Naamdhari is a cult as they believe in a false theory. AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani. Simple definition of a cult: Quote a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. Unquote [1] [1] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult?s=t

Here I'm again thinking about hatred..

You know some questions we can't answer.

I am not promoting any hatred. I will respect a Radhaswami, Naamdhari or a Sant Nirankari, if he is a better human than me. TheWaheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

Yes this what a true sikh is ought to do!!

Then taking my words back!!

Gur fateh!!

sukrit kaur, on 23 May 2015 - 03:03 AM, said: Who has promoted hatred in this topic? Can you please elaborate?

To talk about other sects in the manner you did,made me to think about hatred.I might be wrong.

I take that to mean man made Gurus who would mislead in order to control the masses. I totally lump those in there who try to push back women into subservient and subordinant role. The True Guru is within us. Here are the next few lines of that same shabad you quoted Paapiman...in fact the VERY NEXT few lines right after the line you quoted: ਕੇਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਵਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ Keṯī nār var ek samāl. There are so many brides of the One Husband Lord - consider this. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ Gurmukẖ maraṇ jīvaṇ parabẖ nāl. The Gurmukh dies, and lives with God. ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਢੂਢਿ ਘਰੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ Ḏah ḏis dẖūdẖ gẖarai mėh pā▫i▫ā. Searching in the ten directions, I found Him within my own home.

Waheguru!! Waheguru!! Waheguru!!

Dhan Guru Ramdass Patsahh!!

Brides mean true souls ,gurmukhs,who have turned one with their husband(god))

Dhan hai oh mahapurkh ,gurmukh pyare!!

Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Pyare!!

And when one gets darshan of true naam in his own home(body),then he becomes another bride of one husband...

Wahhh!!!

May we get marry soon and get called as Brides!!!

Dhan Sache patsahh!!

Gurbani is the truth.

ਕਾਚੇ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੂਆ ॥

Through a false guru, liberation is not found.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

I said MAN MADE sources.Don't add Gurbani in this.I take it as a disrespect.And Yes ,from beginning I'm talking about a True Guru ,everyone knows a false Guru cannot help us.

Gurfateh!!

Truth is always not what we read , listen from man made sources or it's not what we accept or what we believe in.

Hatred is different from, stating the truth.

In current times, one branch of Nirankaris, Radhaswamis and Namdharis cannot be classified as sects of Sikhism. They are cults. One of the Radhaswamis so-called guru, used to smoke tobacco, which is a cardinal sin in Sikhism. The basic Sikh principle is to believe in SSGGSJ, as the living form of God.

Whatever you think,whatever I think ,Do not matter.The truth doesnt change.Spiritually/bhagti is not related with sampardas,sects,cults it is the journey of an individual.when,anyone reaches any realm or reach sachkhand ,no one says a DDT/AkJ/Radhaswami has made it!!

Bhagat kabir jee says he has no religion.Guru sahib will def hug that beloved soul whether its DDT,akj,nirmale,Radhaswami.Guru Nanak patsah gave one message,were one true guru of entire humanity,of sikhs,hindus,muslims.They taught us to Love one Niraankaaar and to start thinking at level of individuals.But still if a sikh is not abiding his teachings,or getting true mesaage of gurbani then,who is responsible for his failure.I have nothing to do whether a person whose guru of sect he belongs to ,used to smoke or not,all matters is what that individual/person is doing now.Same in case of sikhs.So manyyyyyy sikhs still are non veg,drunkards..So what about them??

It's all story of an individual.What about Nihangs who eat meat???what about a person who is a non sikh but still follows rules of sikhism.No one knows,when he will get a chance to meet sache patsah or will be a greatttt sikh/saint in his next birth.And same sikh who has no true love comes again and again in so many births.

I dont know any thing about cults,sects or sampardas.All are MAN MADE..

In entire GURBANi,the story is of an individual irrespective of any caste,religion,sect.One who abides by it is the trur winner and a true Sikh.

Who knows If I ,you were a muslim or Radhaswami in previous life.But due to any kamai,we are now in sikhism.But still If we waste our time blaming this and that ,then it will a great SIN.All depends upon our love.Our Love towards Nirannkaar/sache patsah/Guru nanak patsah/sggsj.I'm not a Hater.Hatred is not a principle of sikhism..

hey sache patsahh!!!!

No one is greater than SSGGSJ. Saints can merge into him. The 10 incarnations of God appeared to be human, but they were not human like us.

No one is greater than SSGGSJ. Saints can merge into him. The 10 incarnations of God appeared to be human, but they were not human like us.

Exactly!!!!

We are sikhs,very fortunate souls,SGGSJ as our Guru,and yes there is no one greater than a true Guru.

But somewhere I guess you took me in wrong manner.I dont want to argue about SGGSJ.I was just explaining about a human Guru.In my view,Guru is a teacher,who helps us to meet nirankar.And ten Guru's and SGGSJ are not only Teachers/Gurus for me now.They are Nirankaar for me.All.the goal of my life is to meet them,in any sarroop coz their jot is one.They are God.So A teacher(We were reffering guru)/saint/brahmgyani is needed to help us so that we can meet our sache patsah.If one has great desire to meet Guru Nanak patsah or Guru Ramdass patsah,then it means he is yearing to meet Nirankar.So They are not only limited to the world Guru.Okay we take Guru as Nirankaar,then better use the word teacher/saint/Saadu.

Gurbani says Mil SAadu Akathhh kathayaaa tha..

So a teacher a jot who has already merged with nirankar,helps us to meet our satnirankar/sache paysah/Guru Nanak patsah/Guru Ramdass patsah..

And the time when Niraankar was here in form of a human body,and that tine they were called as Gurus,Dhan are the ppl who got chance to meet sache patsah as human body in their lives and as their Guru.No doubt ,Guru nanak patsah is still a Guru,but now, no body means only a bright soul can get chance to meet him.Okay If I was in human birth at time of Guru Nanak patsah,then I could meet sache patshe directly in any possible way.But now sache patsah are in sachkhand.How I,the poor soul whose light of soul has not brightened yet ,has no kamai of previous lives,can manage to meet sache patsah..How???

Sache patsah himself makes a way for us to merge in him.It's only by his grace ,we get a company of any teacher/Guru/saadu/saint in our life.Then,This happens.If one gets chance to meet sachepatsah without any teacher,it means he surely had a teacher /or any kamai in his previous life.

BTW,I believe in Gurbani.And everytime I've got direct messages from SGGSJ,so one shouldnt misinterpret their budhi(which is already very limited) from such man made rules.This sect/ur Word CULT says this and that is just out of my biz.All I think Gurbani is the voice of Nirankaar which is not only for sikh,DDT,Akj,radhaswami etc.This is the message for entire humanity.For entire world.for entire beloved souls.UPDESH CHAHO VARNA Ko SANJA..

And Guru Nanak patsah can be in any avtaar/body right now(acc to 84 incarnations of Guru nanak patsah),then that body can look like human ,but that will not be human.So as I told you It's something Mystical.

To understand Gurbani and to abide by it is the true meaning of following a Guru.When we start doing so,then we start having ans of each ques.

Gur fateh!!!

Do you think, they can? So, you believe that their human gurus are equal to Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Rai Dev Bedi jee Maharaaj/SSGGSJ???????

I dont know much,but Take an example.:

Two persons,First one belongs to sikhism and second second is not a sikh.

Ist one has all wisdom,has taken amrit but still has not progressed spiritually.He reads Gurbani,but does not walk on the way mentioned there.He is doing all pathh etc,but still has not known core idea of spirituality.The message given in each line,each word,each tukk of gurbani is not familiar to him.then,it simply means he is not talking to SGGSJ and no indication he is getting from.So Tell em whether he has attained the true purpose of life??

To take amrit,or to born in sikhism is just a begginning.He has brought the fruit home,but has not eaten yet.So is he a true sikh??

I don't think so..

On same time,other person who belongs to any other samparda Radhaswami,nirmale or nirankarri.Though he belongs to a particular sect,but still as an individual,he has a great respect for SGGSJ coz he knows the true message of Guru sahib.If he has attained this purpose or he is able to understand each word of gurbani,if he knows what is the true message given by a each and every pangat of SGGSJ a,then he knows how to talk to SGGSJ.Guru sahib Ji is talking to such person.All he is doing is that he has a teacher from whom he is taking suggestions.Only difference is that he has joined other train.He is travelling in other vehicle.So every vehicle has its own rules , and regulations in order to complete the journey and to reach the destination.If he is a very much beloved soul then who knows when Guru sahib comes , holds his hand and carries him with himself.So ,we can never say anything which is ToTally true unless experienced.If a Radhaswami gets chance to meet GURU Nanak patsah with his efforts or true love and a sikh can't due to his false ego,then who is the true winner???

I've personally met many ppl in my life ,who are sikhs,but still very busy in such useless wordly discussions or just solving disputes.On other if a non sikh is busy in true kamai irrespective of any worldly stature,then who is following true path.

A biggest sinner can be the noblest person.

If Guru sahib wants then any person of any samparda can attain the highest state.Then who knows,when he will be great sikh of time.

I'm not a scholar nor I'm so free to go on discussions.

I hope Waheguru Ji makes our doubts clear..

I'm too struggling to understand the mystical facts.

If we are born in sikhism,then it means we are provided with a big fruit.All we need to do is to eat this fruit rather than to give a look on other's fruits or arguing their efforts.

Gur fateh!!

SSGGSJ is the current form of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj. There is no difference between them.

Who said SSGGSJ is greater than Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj or fourth master is greater than tenth master?

You know the answer,so why you put the earlier question??

You know veer ji,one who has done divine darshan of his teacher/guru in form of a jot,he can only give the answer whether a human guru is greater than SGGSJ or just a embodiment of divine shakti.Guru Nanak DeV Ji maharaj or any of ten Guru's came here in human bodies..So they were too Human Guru's at that time.

As it's said Guru Nanak Patsah will take human birth for 84 times,and anyhow if one is ignorant about any physical being,who is Guru Nanak patsah himself,then what can he (poor one) answer???

Does That true pursh lower than jot of Divine shakti/SGGSJ???

You know It's something mystical...One who gets true grace of sache patsah will understand this fact.He will start seeing Moorat of his true pursh,(Only If TRUE One,complete guru,Sachkhand Wasi) in SGGSJ or will start talking to SGGsJ in true manner.

It's very easy to say anything,but when one gets darshan of divine,he knows the mystery..

Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj Were told by Guru Patsah himself to have his Human Guru/teacher.

Now only Baba Nand singh Ji maharaj can answer Whether his teacher/guru is lower than SGGSJ or is a ray of divine jot of nirankar himself.

That's why gurbani says

Brahmgyani ki Gat Brahmgyani Jaanaey..

Or if you want a perfect answer especially from me ,then pray to Guru patsah For me.He will himself help me to find a true pursh/teacher then after having divine glimpse inside(((ohhh sache patsahhhh,May this come truee,,wahhhhh))),I will give you the appropriate answer.

If not so,then pray for yourself and have the answer from divine.

Yes adding more,I would like to share some things from suleman tape.When he was asked that what does Baba isher Singh Ji (Rara sahib waale) mean to you??

He answered he himself is ray/jot of guru Nanak patsah ,he himself is the divine shakti.Cause baba ji's divine jot was visible to him.Now only he knows the mystery.We can still doubt he is just a human body.He can't be greater than Guru Nanak patsah or SGGSJ maharaj .Even,baba ji will never accept these words.He would probably be very angry for giving him stature equal to Guru Nanak patsah .But Who can teach Suleman??

He well knows the mystery.

He only knows what baba Ji means to him.

So is he doing any mistake by saying baba ji as jot of Nanak patsah ???

You know we can go on and on saying several things,but the truth is unspoken.

Just do an ardaas if you have sooooooo much love for SGGSJ maharaj.and take a hukamnaama.trust me ,Guru sahib will def give you the answer.

I hope I didnt say anything wrong.

Waheguru hi budh bakshe saanu jeeva nu!!

Gurfateh!!

She believes Nirankaris, Naamdharis and Radhaswamis can also reach Brahamgyan. Can someone comment on it?

You mean Nirankaris,Naamdharis or Radhaswami can't attain brahmgyan???,and why??

People who believe that their human guru is greater than SGGSJ, can also reach Brahamgyan?

Don't talk about non-Sikhs. That is a different topic.

If you say Guru Nanak patsah greater than SGGSJ or SGGSJ greater than Guru Nanak patsah or u say Guru Ramdass patsah greater than Guru Gobind singh JI maharaj and vice versa.Does that make sense????

When one jot(of any jeev atma) merges with true/greatest jot of akal purkh,then there remains no difference between two.

As garbage on dissolving in ocean ,remains with no existence ,same happens in case of brahmgyan.But still we can ONLY talk ,can't put the TRUTH in words.

So,it's quite better to ask waheguru Ji for any doubts rather than to blame this and that.

WJKKWJKF!!

How do you guys define whether or not someone is a Brahamgyani? How would one know? Could there be many Brahamgyanis among us that don't have the label of Brahamgyani by any specific jatha or sect? Maybe everyday people like ourselves, who don't wish to make themselves look above anyone else... or is there a requisite that a certain sect has to label someone as a Brahamgyani? If the definition is someone who is "spiritually realized" and awakened to the truth, then we may have many more Brahamgyanis than we know of! Yet many may be dismissed because they are not recognized as such by a specific jatha?

Just curious because I have read on here comments that say that none of us could ever hope to reach the level of Brahamgyani... however isn't the whole purpose of our life to reach that state? And aren't we told that this life is precious in that it's our chance to do so?

Or is the term being used more for people who were educated in a certain jathas beliefs and become a sort of leader in that jatha? (Same question for the term "Sant").

What makes one a Brahamgyani, and how would they be recognized if they were just a normal person, not affiliated with any specific sect or jatha? Or would they most likely be dismissed entirely?

Exactly!!! ^^

Most likely, Bhai saab Bhai Randhir Singh jee was not a Brahamgyani but, he was of very high spiritual state. He used to keep doing Kirtan for many hours.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Omg!!! Now anyone can certify who is a brahmgyiani and who is not!!!

If anyone has read so many books or has little spiritual knowledge or has followed the scholastic approach ,then it does nt mean that you are smart enough to certify anything....

Waheguru hi budhh bakshe!!

Sanak sannad ant nhi paya

Bed parreah parr brahmae janam gwaya

(Sanak and sannad,sons of brahma,could nt find the lord's limits;

Brahma wasted his life away continually reading the vedas.)

How bad it is,when one sikh is putting wrong words about other sikh's way of bhagti/naam abhyaa!!.I couldn't read the text easily,but to show the video in the manner they did,is really a shameful act!!

Totally a big shame!!

This is the first time,I listened to baba ji.It's really a pack of vairaag ,wrapped in music.Very TRANQUIL!! The video where created a melody ,is totally divine.Like celestial sounds are ringing in my ears.No words!!

Dhan GURU Dhan GURU PYARE!!!

I would love to read the shabad..

& yes you are right that we should not share our dreams with anyone else. I 've never shared such things with anyone .But ,here No one knows me personally,so I just shared to have views of gurmukhs.But ,if it's not right,then I 'll hesitate to talk about it.

Thank you for your views.

Gur fateh!!

I think this is a wonderful thread . Thanks N30 veer ji for letting us to share our doubts and to get views which may help us.

I think I've a lottttt of doubts ,which states how much far still I'm from my true goal.

The biggest doubt that bothers me a lot is the question,"Am I lucky enough to meet sache patsah ". As Gurbani says One who is gonna meet his purkh , has already blessed by waheguru Ji.

" Je hovaey purab likhya ta Thoorr Tinha kee payiyae".

So I'm very much skeptic about my fate/destiny.I ask myself for several times Does waheguru Ji love me?,Am I this much fortunate to have glimpse of sachey patsah . What If I had done bad karams in previous life ? Has the time arrived ? Is this life worthwhile ?

Other doubt that bothers me is about the past .I have wasted a lot of time with RAGE as the biggest Demerit . So I'm worried whether that time will be pardoned or not .

Sometime , I ask myself will I be saved at the time of need . I mean I think I'm not as much GUrmukh soul , so that Guru sahib will save me or will Show some mercy upon me . I doubt Myself . TO DoUBT is the biggest doubt . I don't believe that my fortune can be lucky enough to meet the akal purkh .

other doubt is to not get lost somewhere else other than true goal .one's ego or sense of superiority on little spiritual progress,can lead to descend from the real path.To get Light/ridhiya sidhiya/Gyan/sixth sense is not the end.These may act as detterents and can betray souls in many ways.So ,To get lost somewhere else is my doubt.

Other doubt is little personal . It 's the biggest reason for my coming on path of spirituality and a biggest hindrance in further progress too . Speaking shortly, I would say that I made no use of a biggest gift provided by almighty.I just surrendered myself in the hope of something impossible.So I doubt my step.Whether that was an act of stupidity or the exactly one Guru Ji wanted.Here I doubt the most.Still waiting for the answer.Dont know where will this experiment take me..This can only be answered if I'm a lucky soul.so here I doubt the fact..

I know it's not right to doubt.But It's something natural.We can't stop doubting unless waheguru wants.

May waheguru Ji clear our doubts.

In the beginning of my serious vairaag(from past 3 -4 years),I used to have a lot of dreams of Darbar sahib.This continued for a long time.Then,dreams stopped coming.By Grace of Guru Ramdass Patsah,I got a chance to visit Darbar sahib for 2-3 months on weekends.It's been almost 6 months now for my final visit.Again,from last 2-3 days,I'm having darshan of Darbar sahib in dreams.You know this time I had a very divine dream.Totally divine.I got such darshan of Darbar sahib,that I can't explain in words.Actually ,I had forgotten the dream.Next day,when I was having my lunch ,I got the glimpse in front of my eyes.I thought for a while ,Really that was a dream.last night ,I had the darshan again.The white marble with black spots is coming again again in front of my eyes.But in first dream,the glimpse was extremely beautiful.Only that vision is in my mind.It was like a veryyyy shining golden place,And I saw myself standing there.The air was visible.I know it doesnt make sense.But there was air kinda transparent smoke all around the place.I was standing in front of someone.But dont remember about that.It's probably my first dream,where I saw myself standing there.I just watched myself standing and enjoying the scenario.But It was something very much beautiful.So ,Does it mean that I should visit Darbar sahib again? Or is it just a doubt of mind? Or something else!

I've not made any progress.I dont know much about my consciousness while meditating.But yes I've suffered pain.Initially,the pain was too much,now it does hurt but a little than earlier.Pain is of entire body.My entire body aches especially arms,legs and my forehead.There are some other pains too,but I think these are related to my poor health.

I dont stay healthy.I'm suffering with illness from past 3 years.So,I'm not sure whether this pain has something to do with meditation.

Really a BIGGG WOWWWW!!

Really Gurbani,the answer of everything!!!

Waho waho BAanii Nirankaar haiii!!!!

A Husband must respect his wife. There is no doubt about that. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

Yes That's the end of discussion!!!

WJKKWJKF!!

It is not mentioned though. Mother should be looked upon as a devi, not wife. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

Then I can't answer further.I'm at a very low awastha to question the fact?

WJKKWJKF!!

Veer Ji, Why are you talking about a wife's duty towards her husband again and again??No one is denying this truth/point.The point is Should Man respect their wives too?? As I think a wife makes a lot of sacrifices for the sake of her husband.

Just give a simple answer and end the discussion.

What about Rehatnamay or Rehat Maryada or Sikh history? Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

I've not read the Rehatnaama yet,so can't put any view.But ,has this mentioned in Rehatnaama to NOT respect wife as a Devi??