sukrit kaur

. Quote I don't think (I might be wrong), there is any tuk in Gurbani or Rehatnamay, which instructs a husband to look upon his wife as God (in a literal sense).. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

This is because In entire Gurbani,a Jeev (as atma) is considered as a female.Hence,we think so. No person other than True master/lord is considered as a Male in gurbani.

It is very easy to talk like a Brahamgyani, but very hard to walk the talk. We need to stay in our human limits. That is why, maryadas were made. Obviously, when one reaches Brahamgyan, then it is a completely different story. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

Here you are totally right!! But the maryadas should be the true ones as possesed by Guru Ji or the great saints of time.The definition of TRUE maryada shouldn't be changed.(Here I'm not attacking anyone)

Sister, it depends on avastha. The above is one of the arths of it and I agree to it. But that does not mean that we can negate the arth, which asks a wife to respect her husband as a devtaa. I personally, don't want to be treated as a devta, as I am aware of my very low spiritual level. But, I would like to see Gursikh females show utmost respect to the Gursikh males (treat them as devtay). Similarly, I would like to see a Gursikh son to show utmost respect to her mother. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee fateh

But you no where said that a husband should respect her wife as A DEVI too.??

O JEEZ!! You know there is never the end of bias.The bias can go on and one and one.Please any other wise member (especially than me) Join the discussion and just END It!!!!

Yes exactly..But paapiman veer ji your answer is still little controversial.

So ,a male shouldn't treat his wife as a Devi?

So, Paapiman veer ji ,you agree that the core idea of Tuk is to love the true master as the supreme power?

The translation is valid according to: - DDT Rehat Maryada - Amir Bhandaar teeka- Faridkot wala teeka The translation is very much self-explanatory.

. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

I'm not against Translation.But translation is not always the core idea.

Yes ,it's self-explanatory as the other members explained too.

Hope it ends the bias here!

[What did you mean by this?]

I mean I'm not trying to act as a brahmgyani here.As you stated ,"

["So you think, you are above Gurmukh Brahamgyanis of the panth, who changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of humans like us??? " ]

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Yes you're right satkirin penji. Wrong interpretation of Gurbani has been pointed out! That's really good!!

Unquote

Who did the wrong interpretation of bani?

I think You're trying (Maybe By mistake) to change the true meaning.Don't GO to the straight translation.This is not the whole description.

@satkirin bhen ji, I think it's all his grace to differentiate right or wrong.I think Paapiman is trying to express his views in a different manner.Biasing is not the solution.we can't change anyone's views.

Acc to Gurbani ,Akal Purkh is the only Nar-Male and everybody else is called a NARI-female. Now,this Doesnt mean any gender difference or so as pointed out by us nor does it mean any superiority of one gender over the other.

Our beliefs are based on worldly definitions ,not based on divinity.Sikhi doesn't mean to follow a set of rules laid down by some man made committees or organisations.(Here I'm not attacking any particular one). When we start doing Naam Kamai,then we start understanding Gurbani in the true perspective.

As talking about equality of men and women,Women have given many Human Rights.But As a true Sikh,we Beliebve GURBANI.It's our duty to abide the teachings of Gurbani.

Guru Nanak Patsah has said There are no differences between men and women.The following phrases are well explaining the fact:

Purk mih Nwir Nwir MIH Purk bujhu brahm IgawnI(woman is in man,and man is in woman,only great intellectuals can understand this phenomenon)

Acc to science,presence of X chromosome in woman from father,explains man in woman.and presence of X chromosome in man from mother explains woman in man.and combination of both X puts responsibility on woman,since she is the mother of humanity of future.

Guru Nanak Patsah has highest praise for women and also has indicated her importance in raising the humanity:

Bhand Jamiye BHand nimiye Bhand Mangan viahh,

Bhandau hove Dosti BHandau chaley Rah

Bhand MuA bhand bhaleeye Bhand hovey Bandaan

So kyo manda akhiiye jit jammey Rajan

Bhandai Hi Bhand UPJay Bhandau Bhaaj na koye

Nanak Bhandey Bahara eko sacha soye

(From woman,man is born;within woman man is conceived, to woman he is engaged and married.Through woman,generations come.when his woman dies,he seeks other woman,to woman he is bound.So why call her bad?from her,Kings are born.from woman ,woman is born,without woman no one at all.O Nanak,only a true lord is without a woman)

One of the strongest argument of opposing force is Menstrual cycle.Guru Nanak patsah says menstruation doesnt make a woman polluted,since it's a natural and necessary process of woman's physiology:

Jive Joru sirNAavnaey aavey vaaro Vaar(as a woman has her periods month after month)

Juthey jutha Mann vasey,nit nit hoye khuaar(so does the falsehood dwell in the mouth of false, they suffer forever again and again.)

Suchey Aihey Na Aakhiye behan je pinda dhoye(They are not called pure,who merely sit after washing their bodies)

Suchey seyI Nanaka ,jin mann vaseya soye(only they are pure,within whose minds the lord abides)

Sutak kyo kar rakhiye sutak pavey Rasoye(How can it be protected from impurity,it touches our own kitchen)

Nanak Sutak aaev Na uttrey,gyan uttarey dhoye(o Nanak,impurity can only be washed with spiritual wisdom)

So there is no difference between Men and women.Both are ought to respect each other .Husband-Wife relationship is a spiritual relation.Both need to respect each other.Guru sahib respected their wives a lot and same did the wives.

We can't question anyone's particular views on this relationship.No doubt ,Wives MUST respect their husbands and Husbands should do so.I think to just bias over the topic is not worthwhile.One who will disrespect the guru's order,will be punished for his mistake.

If a wife is respecting her husband with all efforts,then she is well doing her karam. And yes it's duty of a wife.On contrary,if husband is not doing so,then he is too conducting his karam.

I think we should stop the discussion Now!

So you think, you are above Gurmukh Brahamgyanis of the panth, who changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of humans like us??? Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

Where did I say so? Show me! I just said the gurbani's tukh was really interpreted and that somehow was showing a wrong message.Targetting my ownself,I said so.Just think,If I were not little aware of it,then following the message as your post gave(to LOVE the husband as sati did),would lead me to a wrong path,definitely to the world of MOH MAYA.I'm not talking about Bowing/respect here.To show respect is a different matter,but to love someone as much as Sati did,is totally a form of Moh Maya.In my view,Yes It's obligation of both partners to respect each other and to show solidarity in each situation,but to love Husband/Wife as SATEE did,is not right.Just imagine,If she would have loved God instead of her husband,then She would be much and much fortunate and that would be the real source of satisfaction. Satisfaction of love!

That was just my view.I wrote I'm not sure,cause I was not a Brahmgyani.Even ,I dont want to think/talk about it.It's like a flea of gutter talking about Nectar of richest orchids. So,I just wanted to discuss the tuk .That was a kind of question to the sangat.And I'm not interested in doing bias over it.here,fiction is really not my idea!

Yes you're right satkirin penji. Wrong interpretation of Gurbani has been pointed out! That's really good!!

As I finished writing, and posted the above post,satkiran ji had already posted so.LOL.BTW,Correction has been done!

You already know the answer. Anyways, here it is again: ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥कहु नानक जिनि प्रिउ परमेसरु करि जानिआ ॥Kaho Nānak jin pari▫o parmesar kar jāni▫ā.Says Nanak, she who looks upon the husband as a lord ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥Ḏẖan saṯī ḏargėh parvāni▫ā. ||4||30||99||is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99|| Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh

What I think about the meaning of shabad is little different.

As per my thinking,Gurbani focuses on one's true love only and only towards satnaam/parbrahm/almighty/satguru.Gurbani is the key/way to liberate the soul from Trap of Moh.I think to show infinite love towards any human being whether a wife or husband,brother or sister ,anyone is totally against the true message of Gurbani.So,how can Gurbani encourage to show infinite love towards spouse.

Here,I think SATEE is the soul(as female) irrespective of gender.So guru sahib says Kaho Nanak jin preyo parmeshar kar janea, means the one (as a female soul) who loves her True husband (satpursh/waheguru) as the greatest mighty 'ALMIGHTY' is the true satee.Here The wife is soul( begging for meeting his beloved one),Husband his True pursh and is referred as ' PARMESHAR' ,The supreme Soul/waheguru.

So such Loving soul is the true Satee,and she is blessed one ,and gets honor in the court of akal purkh.

So,Gurbani tells to love only one being,not to show love or get trapped in moh maya with husband,wife or any thing else.

Gurbani warns us to leave all worldy affections.So such Husband -wife affection as that Satee had,is too a form of MoH maya.Gurbani is against it.

(May be I'm wrong.Please do correct me If I do so!)

Gur fateh!

Excellent stuff Sukrit ji Some very valuable information is there.Whilst reading, It reminded me about the importance gurbani places on the 9 gates/openings and the 10th hidden dwar.It is very much believed that the soul leaves the body through any of the 9 openings at death and people with sixth sense have witnessed this and sometimes even a physical incident occurs at the same time such as discharge from mouth, nose, feces... ears.... However, Guru Nanak ji has strongly advised the sikh to open the hidden 10th gate.... Seriously, we should work at making sure we leave via that hidden door and not any of the nine. Also below is a very good foreign video about the jamdoots coming to get you and what happens.I first saw it at a sikh camp because the depiction is very close to what gurbani says....and there are nearly 400 tuks that talk about the jamdoots--->and remember Gurbani is the Truth! There is no permanent hell as such, but if you end up in this kind of place...you don't leave until you realise and awaken to all your wrongs and this also includes emotional attachment to maya.

Yes you are right veer ji.Guru sahib and Guru Baani is the answer of everything,but still some ppl like me are too ignorant.There are many shabads in Gurbani,which talk about hell and jamdoots.(BTW ,Video was veryyyy much frightening)

May Guru Nanak patsah shows his divine blessings upon us by opening of tenth gate and we get sehaj anand as per tuk:

Adisatt Agochar Parbrahm,Mil saadu Akathh kathaya tha(the supreme lord is imperceptible and unfathomable; and on meeting the holy saint I speak the unspoken speech)

Anahad Shabad Dasam Dwar Vajeo,Teh Amrit Naam CHuaaya tha(the unstruck sound current of shabad vibrates nad resounds in the tenth gate and ambrosial nectar trickles down there)

I think we are too lucky,for having birth with such wisdom to differentiate between good and bad & Gurbani is the most precious and biggest gift of Almighty.May waheguru Ji makes our lives worthwhile and every loving soul reach the destination ,they are looking for.

WAH-HE-GURU!!

Milabae Ki Mehma Baran Na saaku,Nanak Parae PAreela(The great honour of meeting the lord cant be described;O Nanak its infinite and beyond measure)

Pen jee, please do not rush.Take your time with ease. Before you give us more meals(spiritual stuff) to eat, let us eat, savour, and digest the ones you have already given us ... You too need time to cook and serve these spiritual dishes...lol ... so please, eat with us, that very food served by your kind hospitality.... Thank you once again. Sat Sree Akal.

Lol..I Just took the full benefit of free time I had...Actually I managed to do so.lol..my exam is on 17..I wanted to finish it in one day ,so that I can give continous time to my studies..BTW, I appreciate your words.Thank you for your cooperation.You enjoy the meal and I take some time to serve the next one.Sorry for creating rush..

Gur fateh!

PART 3:(very much interesting)

Now here are the answers of hirda.

Says O heart! What is the relation between soul and waheguru.who is true master? what this soul belongs to?

Across Trilok,fourth mahal is SACHKHAND,the highest realm,the true master of all true naam,all khands and brahmands,whole creation.This soul belongs to satnaam.some say soul belongs to brahm,some say this ,some say that.But all are wrong.vedas didnt go beyond brahm ,nor the vedas know anything beyond brahm.but this jeev belongs only and only to satnaam.

Our souls belong to satnaam,but when they entered kaal's world,they wore the coat of five elements.and cage of five elements (body) was created.soul was trapped in thia cage and mind was introduced to act as security personnel.All game is of mind.Only a true satpursh catries the soul with force,otherwise this mind doesnt allow him to think about it.

In beginning,soul started its journey from sachkhand.It entered brahm from sachkhand.First,came the bhawar GHUfA.here hindus did jaap of 'sohang' and muslims of' ANNA-HU'.Anna hu means' I'm same as him.'.when soul reaches bhawar gufa,then it meets master of satlok.like,garbage on meeting ocean says I belong to ocean,In same manner,soul says (on having divine vision of master) I'm soul and he is my master.

All souls are living very far from true master.souls are crying and begging.But all are trapped by kaal/brahm.Only saints know the true mystery.saints themselves give the hint,nd then themselves become silent. Beside a true saint,all are veryyy far to know this mystery.

Now,kaal has trapped souls (all-human,animals,birds,everyone)in prison of mind.Man has become vey ignorant about his true world.he even doesnt know from where he came,and where he will go.he is just dancing here and there in different forms.sometime bird,sometime animal and so on.Kaal cant create souls nor he can destroy.He has only borrowed the souls from satnaam after doing tapasya of several yugs.

Now,mind as security personnel, is the head of Pind and enters the jeev atma in Pind.

Then created the betrayal world.Rishi compiled the veda nd after listening no one even thought about it.Only saint/satpursh explains the reality.Balmiki did true kamai,and compiled Ramayan thousand years before birth of Ram.But Kaal played such game,so that no one can go in nd know the supreme.Only True naam/satpursh can show his mercy and can save a yearning soul.the true master is real father.He us always waiting for his child,but an ignorant being ia not ready for this meeting..

And,soul is wandering in cycle of chaurassi created by Kaal.All are trapped in this jaal of chaurasi .everyone.All rishi-muni ,avatars,Devi nd other deities.

And the soul is dancing on the rythm of Karams.when good karam come,get pleasures and when bad karam come,get pains.As karam,as reward.

Everyone is a victim of different jaal.some of greed,some of this and some of that.It's a very complex mystery.

If had some good karams,then enters heaven and enjoyed mukti for some while.But then bad karams come and gets this human body and suffers pain.Then bad karams, carry to Narak nd then again apin.All game of kaal.Gives man swarag and narak nd just use him as a puppet.He can provide salvation.But this mukti is for a particular time,then again have to come.TRue salvation is forever,and only provided by true naam/satpursh.

Like,A lamp gives no light on covering it with a thick curtain.nd starts giving light on removing it.In same manner,soul is a part/ansh of satnaam.In brahm,it's light was of 12 suns nd in satlok of 16 suns.But on getting trapped by maya,no light!

Nobody has any existence without karams.Sun,moon,stars,earth all are staying under effect of karams .So,insects,birds,animals all are under karams.No body without karam and no karam without body.This is the rule from the day universe was created.

Once,Lord krishna told Uddo pointing a moving insect that it's been made brahma and indra for several times.When Kings of heaven can be given birth as insects,then what will be the condition of others?

No place is without karam.Nine khand,14 lok all are under karams.

(To be continued)

One day,I was a reading a shabad in a book.There was complete description of death arrival and whatever soul experiences after death.It was mentioned that if a soul had a true Guru in his life,then That true guru comes to save the soul from mouth of kaal.Guru doesnt let him caught by jamms.But a person without Guru,gets caught by kaal and there he suffers the severe pains of death.There was complete detail regarding death of a person.Will try to find it out and will post it here.

I tried a lot to find out the shabad.Since,the book is in punjabi,so couldn't find english version of shabad.The writing is really spectacular,very informative,so wanted to share with you all.Due to a very busy time schedule,it's quite difficult for me to type all in english.But I'll try to type it here in english.So this is a poor attempt from me.Please correct me if I go wrong.

One day,I was a reading a shabad in a book.There was complete description of death arrival and whatever soul experiences after death.It was mentioned that if a soul had a true Guru in his life,then That true guru comes to save the soul from mouth of kaal.Guru doesnt let him caught by jamms.But a person without Guru,gets caught by kaal and there he suffers the severe pains of death.There was complete detail regarding death of a person.Will try to find it out and will post it here.

Wow! Great efforts!

Feeling little embarrased.LOL.I'm doing NOTHING almost nothing to stay healthy.

Hope ur posts help me by providing me an inspiration.

Gur fateh!

I can't say much ,but really listening of this one is another guru sahib's kirpa(as I'm having some coincidences from past few days)to drive me in much and much bairaag.just want to cry as much loud as I can.

May be it's a coincidence,but not sure.

May waheguru ji gives me clear indication.

Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji maharaj!!

Dhan Guru Ramdass patsah!!