ragnarok

Read this and the meditation experiences thread

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Baikhri- is doing jap loudly

Madhma- is quietly, like whisper.

Pasant- is silent jap, where there is no sound out from mouth.

Para- is more further, when YOU are not making the effort to say, but waheguru himself is speaking-This borders/overlaps on further to anhad and rom rom (auto mode)

Before we even attempt rom rom, we have to SET the saas graas and saas saas as primary foundations.

I know there can be a lot of confusion between the two, and I never quite understood the difference for a long time.

But from what I gather and the approach I made, I believe it to be as described below (in brief)

Saas Graas

This is done using gurmantar with BOTH breaths.

1) Breath in is ''Wahe'' along with slight pull of navel in.

2) Breath out is ''Guru'' along with relaxing of navel(comes back outwards)

In between (1) and (2), is an important space of silence or void, that one should try and maintain each breath in and out.

This should be a space of no thoughts in between, but you still have your dhyan there !

So, in effect it will sound like-...

1- inhale ''wahe''

2- HOLD, and then

3- exhale ''Guru''

It should appear as.......Wahe...silence...Guru, ...Wahe...silence...Guru, ...Wahe...silence...Guru, ...etc....

Practice, practice, practice ...until you are doing this until you can bring ALL thoughts just down to One single thought,and then none !

then next you move onto-

Saas Saas-

1st STAGE

Again, the same gurmantar and breathing technique used, BUT only step 1) from above, while inhaling WITHOUT saying 'wahe' with tongue !

so,......

1) Inhale in with SILENT internal 'wahe' with breath and navel inwards

2) Exhale with 'Guru' out and relaxing navel outwards.

Therefore, you are doing the same as saas graas, but the only sound from tongue should be ''Guru' coming out on exhale, but the gaps, pace and lengths would be the same as if you were saying the 'wahe' as well.

In effect, it will sound like...-

1- Breathe in, (no sound except of breath)

2- Hold for a second

3- Breathe out with 'Guru' sound.

repeat.

It should appear as ..Inhale.. silence... 'Guru', .. Inhale..silence...Guru', ..Inhale..silence..'Guru'...etc.

Practice, practice and practice.. Again make the goal of killing the thoughts and using that void of silence to help steady mind.

2nd STAGE

Eventually you want to get to just doing the breathing without any slight tongue movements.

ie. ... breathe in..slight hold...breath out..... and while doing this you are silently japping Wahe-(in) and Guru-(out) by mentally incorporating the gurmanter in every saas.........this is Saas Saas simran.

The 1st stage was a build up the 2nd stage where there should only be the sound of Breath in and Breath out now (only hear the saas) and the gurmantar is actually in your breath and you can hear it yourself but there is no tongue/sound making movement. Therfore, you will hear it, but others will only hear your rhythmic breathing.

Personally, I think it is easier to always start with saas graas and then progress to saas saas, in every simran session.

Whist also going from baikri to pasant/silent jap.

With time, you will find you start going deeper and deeper whilst listening to the gurmantar.

The other key is to listen,listen and listen.

What I have given above is just the way that I was doing it after researching and reading from all other sources. Everyone can vary it slightly to suit their needs in order to help them get rid of the thoughts and HOLD that mind there.

Once you really start listening to the jap and it starts embedding itself within you, then with Waheguru's kirpa, you shall start hearing the anhad/naad/primordial/celestial sounds or Waheguru's voice itself !

 

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ROM ROM SIMRAN

This is pasanti bhani jap- which is mental,silent and completely from the sukham Mind.

and it is antar ghat (completely internal)

We are using sukham ears and sukham mouth to jap. (ie,,,sukham gyan and karam indries)

It is ALL sukham compared to the Physical breathing manoeuvres/inhalations/tongue use....etc.. in Saas graas & Saas saas

However, there is just the beginning aspect of trying to feel the pulse or heartbeat that is classed as physical, but once you master it, then it all becomes sukham.

A little point I would like to make is about some confusion about matching breathing with heartbeat - which can no doubt lead to hyperventilation !

I really don't think that you should match your breath to heartbeat- since this is ALL sukham from what I gather. If we start matching physical breath then we are going towards sargun/physical actions again.

The way I see it is-

With simran we progress through the jugtees and techniques by gradually making our surti, dhyian and actions to go from Sargun to Nirgun. Because if our surti can come out and away from the sargun body, then we move away from the grasps of kaal and his maya dominance. Therefore, we need to make surti/dhyian move from Sargun to Nirgun.

(remember- before creation there was just the nirgun shabad and all sargun manifested after. It makes sense to go back home in that reverse order!)

As to the the rapid breathing technique that can lead to hyperventilation and hypoxia, I am aware that some akj practice this, but this is not to be confused with heartbeat & rom rom jugtee, or any other jugtee for that matter.

Hypoxia or oxygen deprivation from rapid hyperventilation gives a person a good feeling of being lightheaded. I have heard how some of them claim to have the feeling of divine anand from their fast paced kirtan samagams, but this is nothing much different than the 2 minute high that party students get with nitric 'poppers'

Technique/method

1) 1st quieten and get that steady state where breath is balanced.

2) Try and feel your heart beat by putting the focus in that area

3) If this is difficult, then it may help if-

-a) you hold your breath for a few seconds and then try to locate/listen.

- Or you can instead try and feel your pulse on the wrist.

4) Once you find the beat and can follow it's beating rhythm, then putting some more dhyian there should make it more louder and prominent.

5 )the anhad naad/dhun should also get louder if it's there.

-I usually find that they both get more enhanced at the same time

6) Now that the heart beating is clear and can be followed, you incorporate and match the gurmantar along with it to begin rom rom.

-this itself can be done in 2 ways

a) you should be able to identify an ''up'' beat and a ''down'' beat.

...then coincide the Wahe-with-Up, and the Guru-with-Down.

OR..

b)when the beat is too fast to differentiate the up/down, then you can match the whole gurmantar with this faster beat. For eg..you are saying waheguru,waheguru,waheguru, without any pause or breaks in wahe-and-guru.

With practice, you should eventually be able to locate the heartbeat without touching or feeling any pulse.

If you HOLD the breath for a few seconds, then this will help make it easier as well.

NEXT, the goal is to put the focus on navel, because when focusing at navel one can be steady in the sukhmanna channel and try to rise up.

The sukhmanna channel runs directly from navel area towards the nijh ghar.

Before we are born and in the womb, this connection is fully active and tuned with waheguru. When the umbilical cord is cut and the birth breath are taken, is when the veil of maya physical world starts it's course.

ਮਨ ਰੇ ਪਵਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੁਖਮਨ ਨਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Man re pavan ḏariṛ sukẖman nārī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||

So, it is important to get that steady breath balance before you start rom rom.

This steadiness and control happens when there are no thoughts.

If any thoughts arise, then the breath balance goes into either side of Ida or pingala.

That’s why it is called the turbulent ocean (bhavsagar) because we rock from side to side (left to right), or from ida to pingala whilst trying to travel up the nadis to try and maintain that steadiness in sukhmana throughout.

This 2nd stage of rom rom is to focus around navel area and feel the pulse there which is much more sukham.

The focus I believe is not directly at the belly button, but you feel the pulse and rom rom vibration just below it and deeper inside.

It is the area called the DHARAN.- which is about 1 inch below and 1 inch inwards.

I often find it a little easier to locate this subtle area compared to the heartbeat sometimes.

The vibrations that I feel there can be In and Out and so I use the mental Wahe-in and Guru-out,

OR sometimes they may be going slightly up/down at an angle rather than in/out, but I still use the same method and have noticed that the rate of rom rom vibration is mostly the same.

All the jap is done in complete sukham from the mind and it can help if you do the internal, mental chant with the inner voice being raised with some power behind it.

The last step I usually make is to make sure that I am breathing slowly and normally and not accidentally incorporating the breath into the jap rhythm-which can be very easily done (and then you can end up with the hyperventilating issue explained above),

This practice takes you on a whole new quest with both mystical and spiritual experiences being individual and very personal to each of us and you know that they can't be discussed openly.

I can seriously understand why it is of great importance to have the right sangat and experienced gurmukh/mahapursh/sant guidance/advisor to assist you along the encounters at this stage. This is probably the reason of why it has that ''hush hush'' factor and doesn't get explained too often.

Those are quotes from Lucky.

You can also read this:

There is no gender for the Guru. Guru is neither man or woman, people who see only the body of the Guru do not see the Guru.