ragnarok
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Posts posted by ragnarok
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Your problem is that you're thinking about the problem from an Islamic context and accepting their assumption that there is a God sitting in the sky apart from us and has nothing better to do than punish people.
The Sikh position is that there is only One. All creation is illusion. Pleasure and pain are illusion. How can there be just and unjust when there is only One? The concept of just and unjust is presupposed on the existence of an individual separate from a judgemental 'god'. Ask him why his religion is called 'Islam' when it sanctifies violence.
Ok, I have a question which is really confusing me, I hope someone can help!
If we believe that God is ALL-JUST towards His creation, and shows no injustice towards any of His creation, and also believe in reincarnation, then how do we explain the beginning? If the human form is desired and the highest reward and oppurtunity to gain liberation from the cycle of birth and death, then if God is ALL Just towards all his creatures, were they all created and given human form when creation began? If not, and some were in animal forms, isn't this injustice towards those souls?
It is an argument a Muslim is using to prove reincarnation wrong, I'm completely stumped! -
Surprised you say this!
The answer is black and white as can be. Given that there is only one how can there be anyone else to do or not do? The illusion that you exist leads you to think that you do things and that there is a separate 'god'. Duality.
Very complex topic. I don't think there is black and white answer to this.
He does everything, but he is everywhere including in various forms of perceptions/thoughts/concepts of an individual itself such a) everything is determined, b..) everything is pre-determined c) man is master of his own destiny.
He himself is pulling the strings for one to think all these different perceptions to begin with- the main question is why? to find out why? one has to go deep within, if one perception is strong towards man is master of his own destinty which mean vahiguroo is alluding/drawing the seeker to make free will efforts to merge back in himself and if one perception is strong towards that everything is pre-determined which mean vahiguroo is alluding/drawing the seeker to an updesh of sehaj (at respective moment or stage)- take it easy- let it flow- stay in hakum- akhan jor chuapai na jor
Both meta realities of pre-determination of vahiguroo does everything and free will applies respective to diffferent different individual at different different stages in life...thats the reason its very important to go deep within to ignite deep search within to find where these perceptions mean and with bibek buddhi filter all thoughts and follow the ones be it pre determination or free will of gurbani - which are given subtly within by self-vahiguroo himself as guiding force/wisdom within..!!
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Contemporary 'sikhs' don't realise that the only condition for being a Sikh is to learn from the Guru. Period. They're trying to translate their caste system into a race system whereby only punjabis can be Sikh and only punjabis can marry each other.
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Sikhs today are obsessed with inserting abrahamic-style dogma into Sikhism. Discuss.
People are always going on about 'right & wrong', using 'where is it written' as an argument, our translations are all pushing an agenda by adding words that were not there in the original text, speaking of 'Lord & God' and referring to this 'God' in the context of 'His' being an imaginary buffoon in the sky interfering with and involved with our everyday lives yet separate from us á la Christianity and Islam.
Why the ignorance? Why the obsession with using misleading words which only work in an Abrahamic context? Those of us who understand the original word can fill in the gaps but the uneducated 'yoof' can read only the english and can understand only in an Abrahamic context. Essentially could they even be considered to be Sikhs? They're not learning or following the original teaching so what are they? Who is their Guru? The translator at Sikhitothemax?
All over this forum people talk about God in an abrahamic context, people talk of God giving you things, of God as an exogenous creator of the universe, as God as a punisher and judge.
The real truth contained in Sikhism comes from the emphasis on formlessness and lack of dogma so why are the western Sikhs obsessed with turning it into an Abrahamic mess of rules, rigidity, bigotry, guilt-tripping, mindless offence-taking at everything. When did we become catholics?
The first line in Guru Sahib is 'Ik Onkar'. That contains all the knowledge you need to know. There is only one. There is no 'you' or 'me', all 'creation' is illusion. A tree or a bucket or a dog or a human; ultimately there is no difference. There is only one.
If you think you exist as an individual, that is duality/manmat. Thinking that there is a separate God is duality/manmat. Thinking like the church tells you to that you are a 'sinner' is duality/manmat.
Newsflash - SIKHS ARE NEITHER MUSLIM, NOR HINDU, NOR CHRISTIAN. Educate yourselves.
Cases in point:
Generated randomly by Sikhitothemax
Read a Random Shabad
This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maaroo on Pannaa 1092
slok mÚ 1 ] salok ma 1 || Salok, First Mehla: hau mY krI qW qU nwhI qU hovih hau nwih ] ho mai karee thaa(n) thoo naahee thoo hovehi ho naahi || When one acts in egotism, then You are not there, Lord. Wherever You are, there is no ego.Where is this 'Lord' coming from? Is there a lord mentioned in the original? No.
kwnVw mhlw 5 ] kaanarraa mehalaa 5 || Kaanraa, Fifth Mehla: AhM qoro muKu joro ] aha(n) thoro mukh joro || Give up your ego, and turn your face to God.Where is this 'God' coming from?
qy bYrwgI khw smwey ] thae bairaagee kehaa samaaeae || Where is that detached soul now contained? iqsu ibnu quhI duhyrI rI ]1] rhwau ] this bin thuhee dhuhaeree ree ||1|| rehaao || Without it, you are miserable. ||1||Pause||What is this 'soul'?
ivxu BY pieAY Bgiq n hoeI ] vin bhai paeiai bhagath n hoee ||Without the Fear of God, there is no devotional worship.
What??
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No stigma or hate in Sikhism but the mass uneducated 'Sikh' community will crucify you for it and justify their actions with imaginary laws they've invented.
Having said that the sikh way is to attack 5 thieves, which includes desire, subset of which is sexual desire. But that applies to everyone whether you're homo, hetero, bi or like sticking things in sheep.
Reality.
in Formal Debates & Discussions
Posted · Edited by ragnarok
How can there be high and low if there is only one?
I don't mean to be acerbic but I believe the value of being concise. The length of your post stems from the inaccuracy of your first statement "There is non higher than Ik-Oankar," Just like academic economics has 1000s of books of models based on incorrect assumptions, when you use the correct statements the line of thought comes to an abrupt halt.
Please find an edited version of your post below which answers all questions and arguments before they can be raised and doesn't require 1000s of words of explanation.
Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa
Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh
Dear Guru Pyare Sangat Ji,
There is only Ik-Oankar.
Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa
Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh
Regarding Vicky Singh's post - Sikhsangat.com is a collection of the most ignorant group of people on the planet to identify as sikhs and is emblematic of the decline of Sikhism as all great traditions decline over time.