Singh47

Most of the Muslim Shardhaloos of the Gurus were Sunnis. Ones faith does not make a person good or bad, it is ones Karams that determine that. If Sunnis like Rai Bullar, Painday Khan, Gani Khan & Nabi Khan are acceptable to our Gurus, then they are good in my books as well and no religious dispute in Arabia 1400 years ago is going to change that.

The source is Naqshbandi, the same order that persecuted the Gurus. It's the only order that doesn't go back to Imam Ali (as). It goes back to Abu Bakr (la) and it has no breathing techniques. I wouldn't trust the man who stormed Lady Fatimah's house and let Omar (la) beat her until she miscarried and died two weeks later! What do they know about spirituality. Their place in hell is lower than Shaytan indeed!!!

Wasn't it Omar that killed Fatima's child not Abu Bakr? And he didn't beat Fatima to death. When Omar was storming the door, Fatima was in front of the door which hit her as it was opening. That is what killed her.

Correct me if i'm wrong though...

The Sikhs in Rajasthan seem Chardikala.

I think that a knowledgable schollars like TSingh, or Amrit Bhaji should try to do something about these people. The other so called scholars just indulge in petty name calling games like Kafir, Ram Raiya and other crap like this. These people need to be refuted by scholars not name callers.

I have not seen the video yet. A person should have the right to question. Sikhi is an Indian based faith. We are not fanatics like the semitic faiths where people get stoned to death or burned alive because they question. If these guys are wrong then we need to refute them (with facts!).

Kelari Jee, I think that you should re read Mkhalsa's message once more. He simply forwarded an email he recieved about this issue. He himself admits that "I know nothing about this, but I just received this in my email:"

Pehla Dhiyaan Naal PaRo, Phir Likho.

Yeaaaaay!

Both sides are wrong. The Hezbollah should not fire from amongst the civilians, thus making the civilians a potential target of Israeli counter attack, but at the same time the Israelis should use a little restraint.

On this forum we don't tolerate character assanations of any kind either in form of random comments or sarcasm.

Although I agree with you on the part that we should not defame someone, but I have seen many comments here on this forum which are character assassinations, and forms of random comments and sarcasms about others. So these types of comments have been tolerated on this forum.

Yeah, I sure hope the Lebanese people get peace. Terrorist groups like Hezbollah really need to clean up their act and stop terrorizing the Jewish people. One day hopefully, Lebanon and Israel will exist in the Middle East respecting each others boundaries. But this might only happen if the terrorist Hezbollah are disarmed. Poor people on both sides of the border have to suffer thanks to these Jihadi terrorists.

I advice is to first learn Devnagri and Shudh Hindi, from there start learning Sanskrit. It is very important for a Punjabi person to first learn the Hindi Ucharan before going on to Sanskrit. And may I add, good for you for taking this step. Sanskrit is a language every Indian should learn know.

Wicked! how long will this future become reality? cant wait to get some of this stuff.

Does anyone even know what the fight was all about or are we just going to start making blanket statements about one party involved?

Sant Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawalay!

It doesn't work.

Although I am not saying girls are worse than boys, but for a strange reason all the cases of marriage fraud I am come across in friends and family have been girls from India who abandon the NRI boy. Usually these girls are either in a pre plan with her family to do this fraud or sometimes she is doing this with her boy friend from Punjab whom she will bring over at a later date.

Maybe the reason I have not heard of boys doing this is because the NRI girl's family wants to keep things quite.

In any case, I still think that 3 years is a long time. Alot of genuine abuse can happen in 3 years. So in my opinion 1 to 1 1/2 years is good enough to find out if the other person is a fraud since most of the cases I have come across the fraud bride usually leaves within 3 months of arriving.

1. You still don't get it do you? You are among those who believe that they can marry their daughter to someone else. And I am just of those who, whilst still having prefences, believe that my daughter has the right to chose who she marries be he a Singh, a Shia, a Sufi or a Greek Orthodox!

If think you have the power to marry your daughter off in the first place and that you don't want to marry her off to a Shi'a, guess what? I don't care! I am not interested!

Then don’t go around passing your judgment on others by calling them tribal, anti-Muslim/Islamophobic, idol worshipers simply because they don’t agree with you or don’t want their daughters and sisters marrying Muslim men. This may seem like a shock to you, but people aren’t very eager to being judged by you.

Well I don't see how the way I run my family is of any concern for Sikh fathers and brothers worldwide who can't even protect female embryos from being killed! Of what concern is that to them anyway?

"oooo Javanmard you're not offering your daughters to the rest of us male Sikhs!!! You traitor!!!"

If you guys think that Sikh women are "community property" and that it's up to YOU to decide who THEY should or should not marry then that's your choice.

I just believe that a woman has the right to decide who she wants to marry. Of course as a father I would have my preferences but then again I am not the one marrying the guy!

You see I consider Sikh women as individuals not as "tribal Sikh property" to be available to Sikh men.And hence I believe individuals can make choices. If my daughter finds herself an honourable Singh I'll be happy as long as she's happy. But if the guy happens to be an honourable Shi'a and if she's happy with him then I am happy too.

And if that's a problem for other Sikh males gues what? I DON'T CARE!

And yes Muhammad Iqbal said that natinalism is an idol in his Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam.

And yet again if you take everything I say twist it and transform it into a personal insult...YOUR PROBLEM! I never said Singhs of Guru Gobind Singh were idolworshippers: you did! But then again whatever makes you happy...

Lalleshwari, I'm not twisting anything, you said that you have no problem if your daughter marries a Muslim, yet you have a problem if she marries an amritdhari whose rehet you are in disagreement with. Personally I respect Shias and their Imams, but I wouldn't go to the extent of marrying my daughters or sisters to Shias just to make them happy.

Perhaps my rustic ways are tribalistic (according to you!) or maybe still a little paindu, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I allow my yet to be born daughters to marry a Muslim!

BTW, it seems a little strange that even though our Gurus and great GurSikhs through out history had very warm reletions with Muslims, yet none married there sisters and daughters to Muslims. Perhaps they are also very tribalistic and Nazi like for you.

Singh47 thank you for reminding me of the difference between 'idolworshiper' and 'tribalist'. It made me take my blonde wig off. Thank you Singh47!

I am actually using a comparison made already by the illustrous Sir Mohammad Iqbal (whom Sant Singh Maskin loved to quote). He declared that nationalism was idolworship in the sense that nationalists (or mega-tribalists) make the notion of the collective group into a mental idol.

Wow I feel better as a non-blonde. Thank you!

I doubt very much that Iqbal said that, but even if he did say that, it seems highly hypocritical of him considering the fact that he inspired many Pakistani leaders the very idea of Pakistan.

BTW, I'm proud to be a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and if that makes me an 'idolworshiper' in your eyes, then so be it.

That's wonderful indeed...I am sure that Sikh women world wide are grateful to you for allowing them to marry non-Panjabi Sikhs. Too grateful indeed!

Indeed, I'm sure Sikh fathers and brothers worldwide are just delighted to know that you have no problem with young Sikh girls marrying Muslim men.

Is there anything that you will not do just to appease the followers of the Ahlul Bayt?

Just to be clear to others here, I have no problems with a Sikh girl marrying a man of another race, JUST as long as that man is a Sikh.

It is people like you who sometimes make me want to thank God for Punjabi Sikhs being so tribalistic in nature and not as Khulam Khula as you where they will allow their daughters and sisters to marry Muslim men. I don’t hate Muslims, but some things just should not be happening, and a Sikh girl marrying a Muslim man is one of them. If such views make me a ‘Nazi’ in your views, then so be it.

Now if a Muslim man were to become a Sikh, then I have no problem with him marrying a Sikh girl.

To respond to kikz on my remark on "idolworshipers disguised as monotheists" I make refernce to those people from monotheist communities (Sikh, Muslim, Christian etc..) who outwardly present themselves as religious but who in fact do it in the name of the exaltation of their community-tribe-qaum feeling. What they worship is not God but their collective ego as a tribe and use religion for it. Given the fact that the overwhelming majority of Panjabi Sikh believe in caste (as if caste determined honour, maturity and honesty...)

I don’t understand how you come up with these new terms now and then, but according to dictionary.com the definition of ‘idolworshiper’ is "a person who worships idols". I think what you are trying to refer to is 'tribalism'. That's not the same or anywhere near the same as idolworshiper. In fact, they are not even synonyms of one another.

I doubt very much that my daughters would get married to a Panjabi Singh but I have met exceptions (thank God) of true Singhs. Just a shame that they're not the majority.

I thank Vaheguru, those kinds of people are not the majority, but just the fringe of Sikh society.

Singh47 wrote:

Does that monopoly only belong to Catholic/Orthodox Christians, Muslim Shias and a few Sikh groups on the fringe, or can anyone from any faith belief have honour and love of God?

Islamophobia is a very UK Sikh thing. Sikhs elsewhere seem to stick to a more reasonable attitude towards other religions even in India despite huge anti-Muslim propaganda. But with the UK it's a different deal which I think has got more to do with UK specific factors than religion per se. In any case it's all about one tribe versus another tribe each tribe using God against the other, idolworshipers in the guise of monotheists...

So are you saying that there is nothing wrong with a Sikh girl marrying a Muslim guy?