Singh47

Khalsa Pyari, don’t listen to anyone. You have full rights to express your views about this topic or any other topic.

Does Baba Buland live in England or India?

Who is this Singh? he's a very good speaker!

I wonder how Patna Sahib (Janam Asthan) looks like. Lets try getting a picture of that from the sky.

It is a secret US military base where according to conspiracy theorists, the US government does experiments with UFOs and aliens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51

I don't believe in a "God" either. I do know there is the Source from which all arises and dissolves into, there is no seperation.

Heydudewassap. There is a God according to Guru Nanak Dev Jee and that God is Vaheguru. Vaheguru is:

Ik Oankar Satnaam kartapurkh nirbhou nirvar akal moorat ajooni saibhang gurparsaad.

So either you are right or Guru Nanak Dev Jee is right. So who should it be, you or Guru Jee?

Dont take offence, but I'm going to go with Guru Jee on this one

Thats amazing. This is off topic, but can google earth also get an aerial photo of area 51? lets see what's really down there :twisted:

Infinite are his path, and devotees.......

How this "His path" or his "devotees" when they profess to be Buddhists? A path which does not believe in A God.

I don’t think that Jathera was an Aryan (Vedic/Brahmanic) faith. Jats/Rajputs/Gujjars are descended from the Sakas and Huns and with local Indians. Jathera stems from the ancient pagan beliefs of the races from the steppes.

The Vedic/Brahmanic faith was much more advanced metaphysically than the paganistic beliefs of races from the steppes of central Asia.

Nice, how did you get an aerial photo of Darbar Sahib? Satellite?

I think that 3 years is a long time. Maybe 1 1/2 years is good enough to find out whether the other person is a fraud or not.

Jathera was the predominent faith of the Jats of Punjab who later adopted Sikh Dharm. It was about ancestor worship. Some Sikhs of Jat background still carry out rituals for their ancestors. That is why you will see many Samadhs in the Pends of Punjab.

Well, I do agree that Chandu did play a role, but could it be possible that his role was similar to that of Sucha Nand or Gangu? I don’t believe he was the main perpetrator behind the Shaheedi of Guru Arjun Dev Jee, even though he did play a role, but he was not the main player behind the Shaheedi. The real hands behind the Shaheedi were Jahangir and Sheikh Sarhindi.

"Compassion is the basis of morality..."

Take a good look at this video which shows how meat ends up at your dinner table.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?vi...live_transport3

Strange how Jahangir does not even mention anyone named Chandu.

Personally I am of the belief that Guru Jee died because of the religious intolerance of the Islamic establishment of the time (as mentioned by Jahangir himself!) rather than some family feud between two KuRams.

Jahangir did not imprison Sheikh Ahmad because of his anti-Shai beliefs. He imprisoned him because the Mujaddad claimed he has gone further (spiritually) than the companions of the Prophet. This is blasphemy according to Islam that Jahangir could not tolerate and so he imprisoned him. But later on, he was released and had great influence on Mughal nobles and even Jahangir himself. He revived Sunni Islam from un-Islamic (Sunni) beliefs because of which he is called the Mujaddad and still to this day is revered by the Sunni Muslims of South Asia.

I guess maybe Jahangir was just lying in his memoirs (sarcasm), Touzke Jahangiri when he writes he executed Guru Arjun Dev Jee because of the spread of Sikhi. Sheikh Ahmad Sarhindi (the Mujaddid of Islam) of the Nakshbani Sufi sect was instrumental behind Jahangirs radical Islamic beleifs.

First I just want to mention here for our readers that Giani Gian Singh wrote his books nearly 160-180 years after these events took place. So it is not contemporary. Secondly, his account of Baba Jee is based on Panth Parkash of Ratan Singh Bhangoo who also wrote his book nearly 100 years after the events took place. So we again have two Sikh accounts both of which are far from being contemporary, thus are bound to be full of mistakes and inaccuracies.

Furthermore, Giani Gian Singh even mentions the accounts written by the Mughals such as Aagar Khan, Amanat Khan, and Kafi Khan. So a scholar who bases his opinions on contemporary enemy (Mughal) sources, and also a Sikh account written 100 years after the said events took place are very much full of distortions. Giani Gian Singh has written his books which are full of fairy tails and magical stories. Not to be trusted 100% by the modern reader.

I suggest the readers here to take a look at Ganda Singh’s book on Baba Banda Singh Bahadur which he has written using only contemporary sources and being the modern academic he was, he wrote his book using a balanced approach to see the proper picture rather then the distorted picture the older writers have painted for us.

You guys may have your last word here for now. But I will be back in a few weeks armed with references proving my case about Sarbloh Granth and Baba Banda Singh Bahadur.

Lalleshwari, this Sangat Singh seems to be associated with the Taksal or some other related Sampradhaya as he seems to mention Taksal a few times and also doing Gurbani Arths according to Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee. He is not an AKJ author.

Akaali, if you want to see whether or not Baba Jee is a hero then just read how he got Shaheed. The man's skin was ripped to peaces by red hot pliers. After that his eyes were gouged out and tongue cut. Not to mention the way his Masoom son who was a mere child had his heart taken out of his chest right in front of Baba Jee and put into Baba Jee's mouth. He could have very well avoided going through all of this gruesome torture if he had only left Sikhi and accepted Islam. But he didn't because he had pledged his life to his Hazoor, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. He died a heroes death, the death of a Shaheed. If this isn’t proof of his greatness, then I don’t know what is.

Anyways, amongst mainstream Sikhs, he is a hero and it is an established fact he is a hero. So the burden of proof is not on us main stream Sikhs, but you guys who claim he killed thousands of innocent women and children. To date I have not seen a non-Muslim but contemtemporary source saying he killed thousands of women and children.

Anyway, I will be taking a break from this thread and reply about both the Sarbloh Granth issue and baba Banda Singh Baahadur issue in a few weeks because I don’t have my references with me at the place I’m staying at.

I mentioned earlier, I will need a few weeks to get my hands on a Sarbloh Granth of Budha dal to prove my case. So I will reply to that issue in a few weeks.

Akaali and Challenge everything Jee, the mysterious book is called Sikh Dharm tay Maas by Sangat Singh.

N30 Singh, this particular picture I scanned was from a book, not a bir. I dont have a Sarbloh Granth Bir where I am living at. I can get a hold of the Buddhadal version to varify my claims soon. But for that I will need some time.

Also Bhai Vijay Deep Singh Jee who did have the Buddha Dal version writes that you can find that at “Bhag 3,Adhyay 5th,Pad 860†of the official buddhadal version of Sarbloh Granth. So if someone here can varify this, it would be great. Untill then I will need some time (few weeks maybe) to get my hands on a Buddha Dal version Sarbloh Granth.

I dont even know why Lalleshwari wants to leave. Just because two people do some vichaar and dont agree with one another doesn't have to end in one person leaving the forum. He should stay, personally I like reading his posts.

Forums are for discussion and debates. Not everyone agrees with one another Lalleshwari. So get over it.

“1. My earlier post showed that there was no such shabad and as proof I showed three pictures of page 255 from a pre-2000 one volume edition of Sarabloh Guru Granth Sahib. He now shows us a picture without saying where it comes from but one thing is sure: it isn't the Budha Dal recognised version of Sarabloh Guru Granth Sahib. And this is the only thing that counts and quoting false bani is blasphemy!

Just because two members mention it doesn't make it Sarabloh bani. And it seems that even one of these two now believes that this text that Singh47 quotes doesn't even exists... not very reliable is it?

Singh47's picture isn't from a manuscript (where on earth has he found a Sarabloh manuscript?) nor is it from the official Sarabloh Guru Granth Sahib editions (be it pre- or post-2000).â€

I never realized you would be so desperate that you would even deny the Bani of Sarbloh Granth as being false. Since you deny Bani, can I deduce that you are now a Ram Raiya? Because that is the new definition you coined for those who qualify as a “Ram Raiyaâ€. Two very respected members of this forum Bhai Amritpal Singh Jee and Bhai Vijaydeep Singh Jee both of whom are scholar in their own right have quoted from this Shabad. In fact Bhai Vijaydeep Singh Jee even goes further than me to even write under his quote the Version, Adhyay and Pad numbers:

Bhai Vijaydeep Singh writes:

Guru Updesh Sikhkhan Prati Bhashan,Mudrit Kuchchh Kes Kirpan.

(Sarbloh Granth,Budhdal Version Bhag 3,Adhyay 5th,Pad 860)

Since you seem to have a Sarbloh Granth, please have a look at “Bhag 3,Adhyay 5th,Pad 860†(Budhadal version) which according to Bhai Vijaydeep Singh jee you can find that Shabad.

If you want to deny Sarbloh Granth Bani simply because of your addiction to Maas then that is your choice.

“Just Just because two members mention it doesn't make it Sarabloh bani. And it seems that even one of these two now believes that this text that Singh47 quotes doesn't even exists... not very reliable is it?â€

Are you now saying that Bhai Amrit Pal Singh and Bhai Vijaydeep Singh Jee are liars? Did they just quote some false bani and present it as Sachi Bani? Are you questioning their integrity by hinting that they are liars? Perhaps Bhai Amrit Pal Singh Bhaji and Bhai Vijaydeep Singh can explain to you here why they would do the blasphemous act of what you deem as false bani.

“2. So Human Rights Watch is not a reliable organisation now? In any case DDT announced it everywhere that they had killed Baljit Kaur. Who am I to contradict DDT?â€

So out of thousands of pages of human right reports you find one itsi bitsi quote (From KP Gill’s website) against Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawalay and now you are trying to create a mountain out of a mole. Yet you do not even want to acknowledge thousands of cases human rights violations against the people of Punjab. If people of Punjab rise of in defence of their Quam they are branded as terrorists by the likes of KP Gill and Bahadur Singh aka lalleshwari.

Tum Karo Zulam, to woh Sarkari hai,

Hum Kareh Fariyaad, Toh woh Ghadari hai

“3. Just because most sources were written by Muslims does it mean it didn't happen. And I did mention the names of non-Muslims too. Does that also mean Muslim sources lied about the Singhs' courage in the Misl period? Do Muslim sources lie when they describe the atrocities committed by Aurangzeb?

The sources are there, if Singh47 refuses to acknowledge them: his loss!!!

Banda "Bahadur" commited atrocities and Mata Sundari ordered the Khalsa to leave him. I follow my mother's command!â€

How can you even call her your mother when you do not even acknowledge the Bani written by her blessed husband Guru Gobind Singh Jee? First learn to back up your lies by showing me non-Muslim but contemporary sources proving that Baba Banda Singh Bahadur killed innocent women and children, until then don’t insult our beloved Shaheeds by spreading unsubstantiated accusations about them. Baba Jee is a Amar Shaheed. He lived and died in the name of his master, Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

hahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha, maybe u should work on ur gurmukhi reading skills singh sahib

Nope... My Gurmukhi skills are just fine. It is Lalleshwari who needs to work on his detective skills.