Singh47

Personally I think that only Guru Granth Sahib Jee can be considered the Satguru that Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave Gurgadhi to. If we now will start to consider a couple of volumes of Guru Granth Sahib Jee’s steeks as Guru, then tomorrow someone will go even further and start to give Guru status to a Guru Granth Sahib written in English, Spanish or some other language. And they might start to justify it by saying that since it is the message of Guru Granth Sahib jee that is important it does not matter if it is written in the Gurmukhi script or the English or Chinese script. For example, someday we might have a Guru Granth Sahib Jee similar to the King James version of the bible which is not even written in the original scripts of the Bible.

I think that if we really have respect or Shardha for Guru Granth Sahib jee then we should only accept Guru Granth Sahib Jee as given to us by Dasam Patsha instead of giving Guru Status to human deviations and innovations that began from the 20th century onwards.

Banda Jee, there is a bit of a difference. We revere our Gurus like we revere Vaheguru. For us they are God. But for Muslims, they don’t consider the prophet or the Imams as Allah. Infact I rarely have even seen a Shia even saying ‘Ya Rosool!’. It is as if they revere the Imams more than the prophet himself.

UPDATE

Another family I know is also a victim of such a bride. This guy went to India to get married. The girl he married was all happy. But as soon as she came to Canada, she ran away to her Chacha Jee's family. The husband tried his best to plead with her and convince her, but she did not listen. Currently this girl is doing nursing and will soon make alot of money in Canada as a nurse.

I would like to update everyone on this shameful story of this shameless bride. After doing investigative work by asking around relatives and friends of this bride. Apparently, this bride had a boy friend in India. When the girl got a marriage proposal from a Canadian guy, she along with her Indian boyfriend made a plan together that she would marry the Canadian guy. Later as I have mentioned in my first post, as soon as she came to Canada she ran away from her husband.

To justify her running away, she began to lie to everyone that she was beaten up by her inlaws. But all of her relatives (which includes me!) knew the reality of her relationship with a guy in India. We all knew that it was also a lie because of the fact that her inlaws were known to be very nice and kind hearted people who are well off in Canada. She recently got married this Sunday at Maltan Gurdwara with her boy friend who came to Canada thanks to her.

Her parents are perfectly fine with her disgraceful behavior, which otherwise would bring shame to a family. But I guess things are changing very fast in India where Punjabi morality and ethics mean very little.

I encourage others here to also share their views on this issue. It is a very serious issue. If possible share any similar stories you have of fraud brides and grooms from India.

Akaal,

Why not ‘Yaa Allaah Huu’ instead of ‘Yaa Ali Huu’?

I will never understand why Shias say Yah Ali instead of Ya Allah.

Sort of looks like a mosque. In the 1858 picture, you can still the residue of the original white paint. Due to factors such as neglect, lack of money and of course whether, the paint seems to have worn off, although some of it can still be seen in that old picture near the corners and edges.

Stop Singh Jee, do you honestly think that Guru Gobind Singh Jee looked like that Pahari picture from Mandi?

As for the second painting with Guru Jee on a horse I also have doubts about that one, although it is a far better painting than the Mandi one. Firstly, in that picture Guru Jee is shown wearing green, but green (and red) is a colour that a Sikh would traditionally never wear. Secondly, take a look at that horse. That horse looks like a black & white cow. Guru Jee’s blessed horse was known to be blue and it must have been muscular instead of overweight like in that picture. Go to India, and you’ll notice Tangawala horses being in better shape and size then that horse.

Just because Pahari paintings are old does not mean they are automatically the 'true' depictions of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. They are merely the artists imagination.

I still think that picture looks bad, and cannot be a correct depiction of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. There is no way Guru Gobind Singh Jee looked like that. Even though I like Pahari paintings, but in this case, I definitely prefer modern pictures of Guru Gobind Singh Jee to the Pahari ones.

I think that the Canadian Government needs to make a law against such people who expoit the system. Perhaps immigration fraud, it should be punishable by deportation, and also barred for life from entering Canada.. These fraud brides give the real brides from India a bad name.

My mistake. Thanks.

Notice his Chand or Chakar on his Dumala? it looks like the kind that Sikh soldiers use to wear on their Dastars in the British army. Perhaps this singh is also an ex soldier.

Stop Singh, I also have heard of similar cases.

In fact a similar case happened to a family I know personally. This guy went to India last year and got married. When his bride left India and came over, she told her husband that she is going out with a friend to a marriage party, and to everyone’s surprise she never came back. She ran away! Later on it turns out she married the guy only to come to Canada and planned to run away so she can sponsor her family to Canada.

Another case I know of is from a family I know. A female person from this family told me how her friend in India is getting married to an NRI. But, what the NRI doesn’t know is that his soon to be bride has made a plan with her boyfriend to marry an NRI, and once she comes to the west she will dump her NRI husband and go to India to marry her boy friend.

Another family I know is also a victim of such a bride. This guy went to India to get married. The girl he married was all happy. But as soon as she came to Canada, she ran away to her Chacha Jee's family. The husband tried his best to plead with her and convince her, but she did not listen. Currently this girl is doing nursing and will soon make alot of money in Canada as a nurse.

I have heard of many more such cases, but it will make this post very long if I write them all down. I'm sure others also have similar stories about people they know who are victims of such brides. What will Ramuwalia do with such brides? It’s not always the NRI’s fault.

People need to be careful. Our people are no longer true to their words as they once were.

Could be his sister? or just a woman from his pend he's taking to the doctor?

Nice picture though

Rajputs were a very brave people at one point of their history. It’s just during Akbars period that they lost their valor. The last great Rajput king of Rajasthan was Ranaa Partap yuof Mewar. All the other Rajput Kings began giving their daughters and sisters to the Mughals for fear of their lives. Ranaa Partap was the only REAL Sher amongst the sheep who claimed to be Rajputs of the time. Even the great Raja Maan Singh who because of his bravery and strength was considered one of the Nou Rattans, had given his sister to Akbar.

During the 1700, these Rajput Kings began writing letters to Afghan kings like Ahmad Shah Abdali, pleading to the Afghans to invade India and restore and rejuvenate the Mughal Empire with Afghan soldiers. The pre Akbar period was the golden age of the Rajputs. That is the period they lived and died like true kshatriyas.

They just dont look Desi enough. Looks very flashy

I think that Guru Gobind Singh Jee must have been tall not Dharmyana (average). Well build, with piercing eyes, and they must have talked with sehej (not too fast and not too slow).

What happens if the Buddha Dal Jathadar himself is a Tankhaiya or was a Tankhaiya? can such a Jathadar of BD be still considered a Akal Takht Jathadar? just curious.......

That was a very interesting story Muslim. Where in Pakistan are you from?

Isnt Narsingha avtar also a member of this forum?

It's alright. I dont know about it being full of 'Bairaag' or me being consumed by bairaag when I read it a couple of years ago. It was about Devi Devte, nothing too out of the extraordinary. The language seems to be Braj, not sanskrit.

What a BAANDHAR!

You can just see the Laanat on his face.

Holy crow! What the heck happened here?

Inder Singh

Then can you please tell me what Nark is if not Hell? Dozak is a farci/Islamic term and has also been used in Gurbani as a synonym for Nark. The Islamic concept of Hell is not too different from the Christian concept of hell. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Gurbani also mention how Jamdoots beat and tortures Paapi souls in Nark?

Also dont the Catholics, Jehova witnesses, Jews all use the term 'Hell' in their books? then how is it just a 'protestant' Christian sermon?

and isn't the term 'neophytes' also a socalled 'protestant' christian term?

just curious to know.

It doesnt say anywhere they they arant Amritdharis either.

Khalsa was used by the previous Gurus before Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Anyway, I found this written by someone anonymous in tapoban.org in answer to this

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...799&t=58799

That's not much of a find.

Even Gurus before Guru Gobind Singh were using the term "Khalsa" to refer to certain sangats.

Khalsa means that land which is governed directly by the King, without an intermediatary. There being no masand, that sangat would be a "Khalsa" sangat.

Khalsa in that context is different than the Khalsa we refer to as being amritdhari.

It was a hukam of Guru Gobind Singh that all Sikhs receive Khanday Kee Paahul. No ifs ands or buts.

Author: ...

Date: 10-29-05 11:22

Proof that Gurus before Guru Gobind Singh used the term "Khalsa" for sangats they directly adminstered without an intermediatery:

Hukumnama of Guru Hargobind Sahib in Dr. Ganda Singh's book "Hukumnamey" pg. 67, "Poorab dee sangat Guru da Khalsa hai, uprant Guru dee aagyaa hai...." and makes the order for the service required.

Guru Gobind Singh jee's desire that all Sikhs receive Khanday Kee Paahul comes from a lot of sources, " The Rehitnamas clearly say a number of times that all Sikhs should receive Khanday Kee Pahul and the famous quote "pritham rehit ye jaan, Khanday kee pahul chhakay...." from the Bhai Desa Singh rehitnama comes to mind first.

Sainapati, the writer of Gursobha in 1711, declared that “it was the wish of Gobind Singh that all Sikhs turn Khalsa .†Similarly in the Amarnamah by Nathmal, a document appended to a copy of the Gursobha and dated October 8, 1708 the Guru “commanded the Sikhs to be courageous and to come to him for taking amrit â€. It thus seems that Khalsa identity was indeed intended for all Sikhs

But was the Sahajdhari identity considered an acceptable form of Sikh identity? The Bhagatratnavalee helps answer this question. The Bhagatratnavalee is a text attributed to Bhai Mani Singh but due to textual references to the Bhai in the third person is likely not by him. “The work may be dated between AD 1706....and AD 1737.†The Bhagatratnavalee includes a conversation between the Sahajdharis and Guru Gobind Singh in which the Sahajdharis seem to differentiate between themselves and “Sikhs†or the Khalsa. The Sahajdharis allow that they are indeed not fully Sikhs and the Guru also encourages them to adopt Khalsa practices while acknowledging that they are not yet ready to abandon many Hindu customs. There are clear directions that the Sahajdharis should eventually embrace the Khalsa identity. When the Sahajdharis wonder what ceremonies to perform for their young sons who used to undergo the ritual shaving or Bhadun, Guru Gobind Singh orders “give Paahul to the sons of the Sahajdharisâ€. The Sahajdharis are even told “those of you who are Sahajdhari Sikhs, if you can keep your form complete like the keshdharis, it is good†The Sahajdharis complain “At the time of weddings, we would call the Brahmins to read the Vedas and the hymns of marriage. Now the Sikhs say ‘you should marry by reading the Anand, do not call the Brahmins.†The Guru advises them to first do Ardas and the Anand, followed by whatever practices they followed previously. Subsequently the Sahajdharis say that the “Sikhs say now that the Vahiguru has revealed the Khalsa, you must not perform the ceremonies of the rest of the worldâ€. Discussions with the Guru address different issues including death rituals, the practice of Sharadh, bathing at the Ganges etc. Overall, the Sahajdharis complain that the “Sikhs†are telling them to abandon Hindu life rituals and the Guru in response attempts to slowly wean them away from the Hindus and towards the Khalsa. This account of the tension between the Khalsa and the Sahajdharis is also cited by Sainapati who writes that the “Khatris in particular were opposed to the injunction regarding keeping the hair uncut because ceremonially cutting of the hair was a part of their ceremonial practices†and that they largely opposed the Khalsa. Nonetheless, what is made clear in the Bhagatratnavalee is that the Sahajdharis were not considered to have a legitimate Sikh identity but “Sahajdhari†was a halfway house between Hindu and Sikh.

could it be possible that maybe they had taken Amrit before 1699 in the form of Charan Pohul?

I think that it all depends on ones Karams. If one does not have the Dasam Duar open, but has done bhagti or remembers God in the last moments like how Ajamal remembered Narayan with prem in his last moment, the devduts come to get the soul.

But I highly doubt that there are many people in this world who remember Narayan like Ajaml did. Most are taken by Jamdoots.

Author: !

Date: 10-28-05 11:05

In response to the Kirpan, here's what the Canadian public has to say. What a Multicultural and accepting place! The fact that Balpreet Singh is born and raised in Canada makes no difference and newspapers like the Ottawa Citizen allow comments like this to appear:

Name: Citizen A

Email: ashamed to be Canadian

Occupation: Accountant

Location: Canada (World's dumping ground)

For God's sake. When are we going to put an end to this and start putting these people in their place? If we went to there country, we would have to follow the rules and customs of their nation, so why is it that when they come here they are not expect to give us the same common curtise? They don't like it here than leave. In this country, accurding to our laws and custums, carring a wepon is a crime and something that is considered intollerable. Yes there are Canadain custums and traditions, but we know little about them, because we allow immagrents and refugees to come here and do as they please. When in Rome do as the Romans do. Every other nation protects their customs, traditions and laws exept Canada. If Shikes are allowed to carry weapons, then I should be allowed to carry a weapon as well. As matter of fact we should be allowed or not allowed to carry weapons. One nation = one set of laws. If I got into fight with one of them, I would use a weapon, because they have one, period

Name: Jon Citizen

Email: n/a

Occupation: Observer

Location: North America

If you move to a different country that is mostly Judeo-Christian and you come from the Middle East or India you must accept that our culture and beliefs do not support transporting a sabre or sword on our person (i.e. body). While Canada has been spared terrorist activities (so far) most travelers on a train or plane live in places where terrorism is a constant threat. I am always amazed that the first thing that many of these people from radically different cultures from ours learn is how to scream discrimination and how to file a lawsuit.

Name: Modeno

Occupation: Retired

Location: St-Laurent

Why oh why does it have to be us Canadians who have to kneel when faced with some kind religion? Now as far as I know, Via rail is Canadian, so why should they try to do something regarding someone getting on the train with a dagger strung around the belt? My God! when are we going to wake up and put our pants on and tell these people that if they want to live in Canada, they will have to abide by the laws of the land. Religion was invented by men, so don't tell me that God Almighty told them to wear a dagger at all time! I really wonder what would happen if we tried to do the same things in their country? We would most probably get shot on the spot!

Name: Sean P. Hogan

Occupation: public servant

Location: Ottawa

Just another example of how the immigrants in this country are trying to shove their beliefs down our throats. If you have to wear a dagger as part of your religion, it doesn't say much for the religion. At the same time, they don't care about the safety of passengers, just themselves, so selfish and so uncaring.

Name: Andy

Occupation: tech

Location: montreal

When are these people going to learn that we have laws in this country that they have to abide by if they wish to live here.

We do not allow citizens to carry weapons, religious or not, end of story.

Whether or not you worship God, Allah, Vishnu or Casper the Friendly Ghost, you will have to do it without a knife, M16 or ground to air missile launcher. If you cannot abide by these rules, there are plenty of medieval middle east countries who can accomodate you.

For more enlightened comments go to: http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen...21-b35a9a21aa50