sexy_singh

pheena wicked post. yes, my responsibility to my wife and family will be my biggest legacy .. and maybe its worth a little more, just out of the sheer difficulty involved than a few moments of 'in love' .. i think u've convinced me. i suppose in the end im talking about having a good marriage with all the trimmings .. and maybe a harmless fling or two to keep things interesting. but i suppose that could be irresponsible. dynamic u wrote sort of that argument which says anyone who wants to be president shouldnt be president. interesting. at the end of the day you can question my motives for having that power, but if i say to you my motives arent intended to be harmful .. cant you live with me having power? after all we all have some sort of power. u might have power over your little cousin, or you might have power over the poor beggar on the street .. or you might have power over the people who work under you. if u argue that having that power makes u bad, then what kind of world are you wishing for? and is it really sensible to talk about something that doesnt exist?

rakash singh, if you care to read the rest of the thread i think you'll find thats been adressed already! sukhi whoa! if you only wanted to bite my head off, i think u should give back the rest of my beautifully rounded panjaby belly. Uh, man if shes anything like you then damn .. i dont think i have any choice on the matter .. Hmm. Ok, i agree that they fought to end the abuse of women. Like that sati stuff and they spoke ill of killing female babies (i think) and that women were unholy (in the brahminical system). And i think they were pretty cool when it came to seeing ppl as being the same - didnt guru gobind singh say, "Recognise the whole human race as one?" .. so i believe you. BUT. I dont think they had a problem, with the idea of men being powerful. Correct me if im wrong, but that doesnt come up as a social issue. Women are made to seem valuable, ney, invaluable .. and great (i agree!) and things. Ofcourse this could be a consequence of sikh history written 'his' way. however i just dont see it as equality by saying equality. whether or not u put it aside for my desires, thats a different topic! no women arent weak and they arent powerless. they are strong and powerful in their own way. and i believe you about a woman being more powerful in a marriage.. but i think thats just a humouring thing, u let ur wife think shes running things.. oh i dont know. i just dont want a wife who thinks she can walk all over me - i suppose thats what we all want, male or female. its just easier for me to say i'll have power and leave it that way, status-quo if you like. ok please

Why should i have it? To be honest i dont know why. But it will be a mutual relationship and just because i have power doesnt necessarily mean that i'll abuse it. Im not convinced that treating women with equality in the way you say will make a positive difference. For example here in the west women supposedly have that equality yet one wonders if that makes for a better society overall. Im inclined to think as long as one is fair and just and reasonable that its ok for the husband to have power. If he abuses it then thats wrong. But then again, an abuser will abuse regardless of any supposed equality.

And how exactly do you propose i raise the profile of women? Also whats the problem with what i said. I see absolutely no reason not to have power over my wife. How else is it supposed to be. Im just following predominant culture. If you disagree with it, fine. But realise that it is absolutely stupid to expect another persons culture be the way you wish and extremely arrogant to think yours is better.

Yes. Shes privilliged by being my wife. its not hypocrisy in my community as men have power. for a woman to cheat she leaves the family .. but for a guy to cheat he doesnt leave. its really quite obvious. no i wouldnt tell her before hand .. because its unlikely she take it the right way and anyway, it would be too jaring to say something like that to someone you dont know that well.

I almost wish i hadnt made the comment about 'what if i have a bad sexlife with my wife'. Thats getting a lot of comment and it isnt even the issue because in the first place i dont want to express my sexual desires on wife! lol. and that isnt some kinky thing, its just like i said before, shes my queen not sex-buddy-for-life. And thats probably a consequence again of the idea that sex is dirty (that has been beaten into my head by ppl) - and why would i wish that upon my wife?! Even if you want to disagree that sex isnt dirty in our community, well it isnt clean either. And i'd say its more dirty than clean. It seems especially the religious community fails to offer sensible reasoning and morals. Pheena like i mentioned in my first post im not too much into the whole control your desires - desire is bad .. avoid avoid.. fight fight fight.. All that does to me is the opposite anyway. Im not saying i live my life based on how i feel and want .. to the contrary .. i often think about every little thing before acting .. and sometimes im impulsive too, i'll admit. All those things that you guys talk about being important between a wife and husband. Im willin, even eager to do. I will respect, care and love the mother of my children - the wife to me and a crucial part of my overall family. But this necessarily and practically denies me of 'being in love' . I cannot fall in love with my wife because that'll end badly. I cannot 'be in love' with another person because society cannot accept that. I cannot be 'in love' with another person before meeting my wife because thats also bad. And you ask why? Well because marriage is special and if you wanna love ur wife, you better not love anyone else before. But once you are married you cannot be in love anyway. brilliant! can u say catch-22 .. googly kaur thanks for that, and i respect that ur parents have been together that long. I want a successful marriage too, im just a bit mad that i was lied to and told, just get married, then u can fall in love, and we wont mind, but really i cant be in love then either. What else, im gonna read ur post again more carefully pheena before i comment further. No, it isnt hedonism. I didnt even know what that mean until i looked it up and that is definitely not what im about. And no that isnt a valid question unless you live your life in a vacuum of common sense and superior-internet made equality. In the real world, the one i live, i can expect my wife not to cheat on me because shes my wife. End of story. Sorry if that breaches your charter of equal rights and if it makes me a bigot but i treat women with a lot of respect and dont live my life trying to make every little a matter of social activism. Final point. All i ever got out of this sort of 'religious' thinking is the ability to judge people and dismiss them are being inadequate lowly beings. I got over that that recently, and realised that even then person who drinks too much, takes drugs and cheats on his wife can be a human being worth caring and loving. I just dont think that sort of thinking is compatible with religious modes of thought. Just an observation. Perhaps that is why we are so quick to dismiss someone like me. And i do feel slightly dismissed. I certainly dont feel very much love in this thread for me and my ideas!

First of all i dont like the implication that im someone on a sex-crazed trip who cares only for sex and pleasure and nothing else. I think its unfair to say that about someone just because they admit to wanting a lover. Even just thinking about what i just wrote makes me feel uneasy because i used the words 'want' and 'lover' and in this company (of you ppl and myself) - thats viewed suspiciously as if its evidence of someone who isnt good enough. sukhi please note that i said i'd try NOT to see my wife as a lover - not in those terms because i think if i allow myself to get into that game, there will come a time when the buzzer sounds and we arent in love anymore, and then we'll be truly miserable. That isnt because we arent a good husband wife team .. its a natural, inevitable consequence of being on that finite rollercoaster of "in love". Pheena thats an interesting point of looking at the big picture of society and seing whats in its best interest. Yes, it would be bad if we were all promiscious. But i dont think that not "total-faithfullness" is having as many partners as possible as often as possible. For example in my case, i've come across four or five girls i'd fall in love with .. thats a handful of potential partners. How many of those would be interested in me? maybe one? . trying to fill their desires, but to no avail are they fullfilled. Very few realize thru the experience of trying to fullfill their desire of their futile attempts. Then one awakens and seeks out that which WILL fulfill their desires to not desire again. Yes, that makes sense. However in my case i dont even get to try because my community has already decided for me that its wrong so forget about futile attempts - its just not acceptable to even think about it. As a tihht person, i often have to discover things by myself - sometimes by making a mistake to learn it. However there comes a time when you say, ok so explain to me why exactly i cant. One is provided with the usual arguments. Sex is special between a husband and wife. Think of the children. Its lack of control. Its this and that. Most if not all of these reasons are fear mongering, very few actually draw your sense of responsibility - which i think is where the focus should be. We are told that if you wait, you'll be happier. But they dont consider the unreasonable expectations they're putting on your wedding. Not only are you to find a lover in your wife for life, you also find someone who'll raise your kids, cook your food, be your friend and put up with you for life and so many other things that are expected and counterexpected. If this sounds resentful and confused then you're right. But this is exactly what you get when you buy into doing someting because of group wisdom. Its frought with contraditions and half truths, but worst off all, its unchallengeable. Think of the coolest, nicest person .. that person might be a great but as soon as such a person expresses the desire to be in love thats enough to dismiss him. Weak, unprincipled, unworthy etc. Phena continues, It is a matter of perception and the desire one seek. If one has the desire for a Tractor when he has a bull which given him necessary comfort of from going from one place to other, then that tractor will become a burdon. Do our perceptions and desires make us who we are, or, does being make our perceptions and desires? You tell me. I think they are so intertwined that its hard to tell. IF that is true, is it always possible to influence a perception or desire - after all - it could just be an expression of WHO you are. Now if you buy into the whole argument that God made us the way we are (the way we act, think etc, what we learn and what mistakes we make) then your desire or perception is what God intended for you. Whos right and wrong then? I'll end this post now and start a new one cuz it might be getting a bit long. Please dont reply until i post again. thanks!

You are quite correct pheena in saying society has deemed it so. However, that also doesnt make it right or wrong. Now say if i was a strong capable individual who could do my own thing despite of what people think - would i be doing wrong? I disagree that one should be content with what you have. If we didnt strive for improvement there'd be no progress. Greed drives the globe and gives us all the comforts we enjoy today. Similarly, why should i settle for not falling in love and things. I go to a party and see a beautiful girl dancing away - im drawn into her .. maybe we i begin to fall in love with her .. perhaps this will lead to making love. The potential for that to happen makes life worth living to me. If she cant cook, well i could settle for eating poor food or i could cook myself or like you said get a cook. If she cant give me children well then im screwed because thats one of the things i expect from my wife. Honestly, i dont knjow how i'd deal with that. Yes its my desire to have have a lover .. i dont wish to turn my wife into such a thing because i think lovers expire and it would be tragic if that happened to me and my wife. So i propose that that our marriage will never involve that sort of stuff .. since we were never in love we cannot fall OUT of love. I dont think my expectation is all that high. OK, maybe it is and im being overdemanding. But like i mentioned before she should be the traditional panjabi wife. I dont think the stuff im looking for is setting the bar too high. Instead they are common sense things. I have expectations .. im sure she does too. Compromising is probably something that'll be needed .. i agree. In the end this is more an exercise is understanding my morality and that of others than a desire to have a mistress on the side.

If you think you are easily offended by discussion on sex its probably a good idea to hit back now.. thankyou! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, this question might have been asked before - but i want some fresh perspectives - because i think most of us here are constantly revising our views on sex and marriage. I know i am, at least. I'll start by saying im a male and hope to one day get married. I've learned enough from life to know its unlikely i'll end up with a soulmate who'll be the perfect person for me and so on. This isnt a discussion on soulmates. I used to think i'd fall in love with a girl and live the rest of my life with her. Experience however has taught me that love is vague thing that at best describes something honest and genuine and at worst, a primal expression of needing to be loved. Now i know what true love is and stuff so we dont need that rehashed here. Its where you love someone genuinely and honestly - without deluding yourself too much. Its probably just putting up with someone whos a great friend and appreciating them being in your life and a feeling which is poweful but poorly understood. Instead i'll go for an arranged marriage. Why? Because my criteria suits the arranged marriage process. I want someone from a good home, of a similar cultural background - so our families get along without too much trouble - this probably includes caste and stuff. She should be from a wicked family and her qualities should be clear and real. I want someone tolerant, respectful, considerate and with a beautiful personality. She should be attractive as well and in my league - cuz ppl tend to talk and gossip if you are mismatched. And most of all, she should fit in into my family - thats extremely important to me. Now granted that this is difficult. But it is probably possible. Its not about finding that needle in a haystack like with the love nonsense. Im sure there are enough girls who'd fit my criteria, if not here then in another country or place. But what bugs me is what if shes a great wife, and im a decent husband but we have a horrible sexlife. I should say i dont expect my wife to be my whore or f**kbuddy. Shes my wife. My queen. Im gonna treat her well - i dont want to go into marriage expecting much fireworks. So what does that mean to me as a "sikh" - im told i cant sleep with other women outside of marriage. That is a bad thing im told. In fact i even believe that stuff cuz its been conditioned into me. However when i think about it, whats so wrong with having sex with someone else - who suffers? my female friend and conscience tells me that i'll be doing my wife wrong. But i dont understand why. I just wanna make love - thats a human thing - am i freak for wanting to do so? Its not like im talking about having sex all the time. Instead i want to know that when i want it, i can. If i meet a beautiful girl whos fond of me - why shouldnt we have a relationship of love/sex? I'll never replace my wife with my crush. She'll always be my wife. The crush serves a temporary purpose. THat doesnt mean i'll treat her badly - i wont, its just she'll have to know i love my wife and cannot replace her. Please not that i dont think i'll ever be in a position not to want sex - im not some magician. Yes ideally it would be nice to be able to control my mind. But its not gonna happen. not to me anyway. so its futile to talk to me about kam and stuff - im more likely to be lustful if i repress my thoughts than if i just go ahead and do it. I wanna fall in love. I wanna do all those things. But why is it so wrong? What do others think - im curious..

Im a young singh who wears 5. I have no advice to offer nor do i wish to put anyone down or argue. In this post I only wish to give my own perspective on the topic. I wish i were disadvantaged by wearing the 5k. I wish it made me in a worser position than if i didnt wear them. Why? Because life is too bloody easy for me otherwise. I have no fight to fight - What use is the identity if i dont have to defend it? How will i be stronger if i go through unchallenged? Where are the bullys to fight? There are not to be found. How will i build my character and resolve if there is no obstacle in the way? My kid will wear 5k and survive - i'll make sure hes physically and mentally strong. I'll support him as a father. I'll do my level best to make sure my kid doesnt lose heart. That is my dream. My kid will be a singh. I havent always been a singh - i went through life without any problems apart from those caused by own naivety. I didnt think about deeper stuff. I had a lot of love for sikhi because i was fortunate to experience mostly positive elements of the faith. Kirtan and seva and a wonderful spiritual beacon in a gurdwara. made me fall in love with a beautiful way of living. I would be a weak unprinciple fool if i wasnt challenged. My first challenge was with the school authorities when i decided to look like a singh and grow my hair. School policy mandated that i shave. I couldnt believe they would force such a thing on anyone. My whole social conscious was shaken awake. That made me stronger. Instead of being a passive shell in a sea of blue blazers i was being singled out for expressing my freedom of faith. How dare they? That challenge set me on a course that would ultimately change my life. A few years later, the natural progression of taking up 5k would be my happiest moment. The best thing i've ever done. After that, i wouldnt face any more such challenges. Without challenges, i wandered around, often depressed with life, What now? If only someone would say, hey you cant get this job because you are a singh, i would take that up as a challenge and fight for such a right. Something to fight for - where is it? Ive changed a lot these days. Yesterday i would think a drug addict was necessarily a useless person. Today i see them, essentially as normal but with a weakness. Yesterday i'd look down on sikhs who got drunk and screwed around. Today it doesnt matter. I have my own shit to deal with. Yesterday i cared about the fate of the sikh people - they are all weak! Today, it just makes me sad because the same sikhs condscend me by calling me names like 'baba' and 'gyani' or by putting less-strict sikhs down. I wanna be amongst those people who are so strong that they can fight anyone - the singhs in the history books whos courage had no measure and whos compassion was of complete passion. Where are they? Im sad. They told me all these stories, but they didnt bother showing me any of the heros.

To the peeps who think he posted to get people to feel sorry for him. please. how is such a comment constructive? Think about this carefully - how would posting something personal to a public board make you feel? Orchids we havent talked personally - but i saw your postings on some threads that i also commented on. About looking for a wifey on the matrimonial sites. Dont. I wouldnt do it man. Those things are depressing. Thas the last place i'd look and i dont mind a bit of mouse clicking. where do u live - arent there any panjabi girls around there?

[it]this is a good topic but the way you posted its hard to read so i edited a little bit. hope you dont mind:[/it] Okay, as a sikh with cut hair, Ill tell you what I know from experience. Im just gonna explain waht i have learned. There are two things with a female, first its the outer shell or the way u present and look. second its ur persoanlity. I bet u know this already. Once a gurl talks with you or u talk first the first 2-3 min all she cares is about oh hes hot oh hes cute blah blah blah. After that waht really matters is your persoanlity, im realizing that more and more.Cuz not to be cocky but i look really good like calvin klein good. But yo i cant keep a gurl for my life or meet them or start a convo. I really dont have a good personality honestly. My younger brother keeps his hair but hes ten times more confident and talkative, i dont get it. But know i realize my brother he doesnt treat his hiar liek a handicap to his 'game'. Its his personality hes funny, carring loving, hes got social skills. He doesnt give a damn, he talks to any one and he doesnt care if they like him or not, he doesnt care, he says u gotta like me for who i am. Look at ppl that look diffrent, ppl who are small or look considerably diff, there attitudes are most of the time amazing, imagine if we had these kinds of attitudes. And yes im not gonna say it isnt difficult, of course it is to go and initate convo with chicks, its mad hard for me even though i dont have hair, i almost have a social phobia cuz i used to keep my hair, mad shy always worried what ppl think of me. But see u have to think like my brother, you gotta find that strength to go and talk to anyone anywhere, almost like a Fu*k it atitude. Everytime i get afraid i have a mental picture i picture guru Gobind Singh's soilders on a rainy battle field, faces wet, fog in thier face, total silence, in ready position, soilders with their swords by their sides, i try to imagine the thoughts running through their minds. They the guru's soilders or matter of fact any soilder of any country has to worry about his life, HIS LIFE try to put urself in those circumstances. Then I ask myself 'sh*t im just afraid of ppls words not their steel coming at me its just words not even close to life threatning. Im just rying to inspire u guys, cuz i wish somebody had taught me all this when i was a little younger. And ill try to attempt soemthing and if i fail like talking to a gurl I like, then so what maybe next time. And im not asking you to go after the hot chicks cuz honeslty cuz we are diff its almost realistically impossible to get soem of the chicks but u can increase ur selection incredibly if u just have this attiutde. Im still trying to perfect this attitude. The attitude part II You only live once, and its best not to live in a subserviant way i think. Be loud, be heard and exude total confidence, cuz TRUST me all the prayers and teachings the patt all want the Sikhs to be heard. I have noticed a trend amoung our kids our generation especailly in america and britain. By the way im only 18 livin in nyc. Kids my age are soo quiet, and shy, naive and reserved they also have good points to them ill explain later. I went to india and i met my cousins, honestly its like i can feel an energy about them, something i couldnt touch. I felt that they grabbed life by the horns basically. especially people in the pindh are so awsome to talk to. i speak very fluent punjabi, and talking wiht my family living in the pindhs sitting and just talking makes me feel soooo alive. Just driving on tractors or walking barefeet in the fields laughing making all kinds of jokes. Back home in nyc, i hang with kids who still have this attitude about them, which is sooo important to have, i beleive the Guru's wanted us to have this attiude along with piety and reverance at appropriate times . But I go to a gudwara in nyc and all i hear is we sikhs should do this and that and then we go home and God bless their heart, but ppl love to tell other ppl waht to do in our community and usually they just sit. Ppl just have this negative, oh we will fail air about them. Thats why im tellin you all this so you guys do more patt, or do more something. An Inspiration sort of thing. Let me know what u guys think

Veer we've talked before and you sound like a level headed guy with plenty of compassion and sensitivity for pain in others. Yes tehre are lots of assholes around and they make life difficult. But so what! The worst they can do is make things unbearable - that is so bad? Not necessarily. Remember all good things come from labour. If you persevere and fight it out - continue to run when your lungs are bursting and your legs cant move - you will reach that finish line and the reward isnt the medal - its your sense of fighting it out and surviving. I understand that you are lonely and sad. And that kind of pain is one of teh worst imaginable. Its really difficult for us humans to live without the company of others - even us sikhs are always encouraged to seek out the company of sangat. Thats not always possible and its not something you always wanna do. It takes great effort for some of us. Im not giving you a magic fix. But the fix is in the way you see the world. If you can change a little bit of how you see the world (maybe by talking to someone - anyone) you can change how you feel for the better. Talk to infernal - add some singhs and kaurs to your IM (AOL/MSN etc) list and have a chat about useless stuff like girls and music ro whatever you want. if you can, get out there and run - just jog for as far as you can .. wear some comfortable clothing - doing this might release some chemicals in your body and you might feel better. im not sure about the actual biology stuff - but it works for me when im down. if you got specific issues you wanna discuss - feel free to put them up here - there are plenty of us who wish to help and will reply honestly and without judgment. hope you feel better veer

hari good post. i've thought about this and i've come up with my own set of reasons for us existing in this universe. I could tell you what they are but you probably wont believe me and it will sound a bit too abstract. What matters isnt what i believe - i might be wrong, and hari might be wrong too. the point is to search for own explanation. I might suggest finding a good teacher to help you in your search - sri guru granth sahib is an excellent guide.

OK, heres the thing .. for some reason unknown to me, people see me as someone who can give good advice. I dont agree .. i think im useless at it. Anyway, the kinds of questions i get are "Im going to this party blah blah .. and im thinking of drinking for the first time", "im seeing a boy being my parents back.. do u think its right", etc. Now im in a hard spot. Because ppl come to me for advice, not just cuz they think im a good person and smart but because they think im a model sikh? which i dont know about .. so i have to balance my own views, with views expected from sikhs .. with what the person needs to hear, and then make it all count .. and not be cliched meaningless advice.. its bloody hard. i really feel constrained at times because my own views will be at odds from those expected from a "hardcore sikh" .. which is because i dont accept the cultural reservations of panjabis in my forming of opinion. Ok, you gotta be aware of it, and its there and no use ignorning it.. but u dont have to agree with everything just cause its culturally correct. The same goes for being culturally correct fittign in wiht western culture. Anyways, anyone wanna give me advice (hehe.. look at the irony) on giving advice from a "sikh" perspective on daily life issues

that was a beautiful answer, thankyou very much veer.

sikh community has lost ____ well lets start with the little things guys, lets make it taboo to kill babies. lets make it wrong to glean superiority of class or religion. lets try to make it okay to think and learn .. and then we shall be able to look at the dreamy spiritual stuff again

nah man .. as much as we'd like to believe we can change the past or future by praying .. i dont think thats gonna work .. well, actually im not sure .. but i doubt it

haha .. SGPC sucks

this is a terrible thread. its so pompous and arrogant, i have no idea what to say. im offended by the presumptions being made.

face it .. we are a bunch of backward people.. we dont believe in thinking we believe in following.. we are bunch of sheep .. thats our problem its bad to think because thats man mukhi .. scholars are full of crap because they are talking about someting they've never experienced and so how can they get it? they simply cannot.. everyone needs a guru, if i wanna learn something i find someone to teach me. even if it means reading a book. there is nothing wrong with that, its just a necessity of life. there are many gurus for many things, and you follow your need to learn. if someone is full of crap, then dont follow em. easy. nothign to get worried about.

i feel sorry that people talk about sikhi being the hardest part. these people obviously dont get it. sikhi is only hard if you are emphasing the wrong aspects of it. if you think its about being superhuman and being awesome then you are missing hte point. you are supposed to not give a (admin-cut) about anything religious and just be chilled ... love ppl and be optimistic .. and live honestly. watch movies, listen to music .. grow plants .. love life .. enjoy it .. all that stuff isnt bad .. its only bad if you are an idiot religious person who isnt good for anything. there is no bloody path .. thats a myth to make people feel superior about themselves. sikhi is just one way, and its not the hardest or the best .. it just is.

hmmmm... lots of lonely singhs out there .. thats what this thread shows

lol .. that was crazy man what are you on about.. seperation? wtf? we are humans get over it .. humans do human things .. choose to wake up and see you cant change the world .. it can only change you.

hey veer .. can you please put newlines between paragraphs .. that white space makes a big difference to readability .. thanks in advance!