gsingh00

I couldnt find the asa kee vaar recording I was talking about earlier, but i found another live recording of asa kee vaar by bhai narinder singh at darbar sahib

http://hosted.filefront.com/singhangad

look for the bhai narinder singh file

http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

here's another one, don't know if it is good or not.

shaheedyian,

I don't really know anything about raags, so I have no clue if its all in raag asa. But I highly doubt it because he does a couple shabads that are meant to be done in maaj in the middle.

the first file of bhai narinder singh is 33mb, i can put that up on 4shared.com, and i'll get to it soon.

The baarah maahaa is more than 2 hours long and around 120mb. I can split the file into smaller parts and upload onto 4shared as well, but if you know a way for me to upload it without having to split it up it would be great.

there are also a couple of mp3s online of him doing asa ki vaar at darbar sahib. I think they are on 4shared, but i'll have a look.

I have the full recording of the chaunki in which he did that shabad plus and also another one of baarha maaha doen in raag maanjh (bhai narinder singh does the first 3 pauris). They are amazing recordings. If anyone wants, i can put it online, I just need some storage space to upload it.

I would like to as you, have you become a true Sikh and agree with Guru's experience?

page 2123 of that file

the sant gurbachan singh katha recordings are surprisingly pretty clear. A lot of people seem to be complaining about them, but as kam said, if I can hear it on my crappy laptop speakers without a problem, I'm sure people with decent speakers should be able to understand.

neo, anyway you can upload those images again? I wanted to save them on my computer, and probably should have done it sooner. Even if u just put up a .rar with all of them in it, it will be great.

lol, looks like the impossible has happened, me and bahadur agree on something.

lol, i was trying to be sarcastic, guess it didn't work. Now, to put it literally...

I do not believe it is okay for a keertani to chew or smoke tobacco and still be given keertan time in a gurdwara. There is no bigger kurehit than tobacco use and given the information provided to me by people I have a lot of respect for, tobacco completely kills whatever avastha you have achieved. Being a descendant of Bhai mardana shouldn't give anyone special privledges, they should be greatly respected, however doing keertan or katha in Guru Sahib's hazoori is not just any small deed and thus I believe that if indeed Bhai Ali uses tobacco, he should not be given keertan time at Gurdwarey. Also, although Kam said it was offtopic so it doesn't really need to be addressed, my only response to that post, and I think Kam would agree, is that 'two wrongs don't make a right'.

tsingh,

I have never claimed to be taksali, living outside of India it isn't easy become a true vidyarthi of taksal, although it can be done. Once again, in response to saying that gursikhs from the past studied vedant, I reitterate that I believe that learning it is useful, but not necessary, although I do see your point. With regards to taksal and the study of vedant, I have been told and have heard in katha by Baba Hari Singh that in the days of Sant Gurbachan SIngh vidyarthees that were learning katha had to learn vidya sagar, so once again, I don't disupte its 'usefulness'.

After reading your response, I have to agree with you, to interpret bani, the basic definitions are required, and this minimum gyan is given by kathavachaks (talking about real kathavachaks here, not the modern day 'i completed an online course about gurbani' kathavachaks). Seeing the it is hukam of Guru Gobin Singh Jee to listen to katha everyday, I guess this gyaan can be obtained without a detailed study of vedant

But in terms of it being a necessity, 'jo pranee govind dhiavai. parriaa, anparriaa, param gat paavai'...I expect the response to be 'to do abhyiaas you first need the gyaan', if this is the case, I guess it would be best to agree to disagree?

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but singhhh....he's a descendant of bhai mardana......that means he should be able to do keertan in gurdwarey....being in the same family line means he's like bhai mardana 2.0...the upgraded version....who cares if he consumes tobacco, listening to him is like listening to bhai mardana. If anything, we should buy him his tobacco, it probably makes his voice better. :roll:

point taken, however in his dera they have no problem using amrit rituals/ gurbani/mantars which are very much khalsa traditions to intiate his own followers. He is an off-shoot sikh, thats why he should present himself in Sri Akaal Takth to the jathedars of takth sahibans and apologize. Don't worry sri takth sahiban jathedars will give him punishments - do seva of sangat- joriyan di seva or langar di seva. I am sure tankhiya given he can related them in his dera, most of the stuff they do in dera is hijacked from the gurdwara's anyway.

if he's not a sikh, he's not going to get summoned to akaal takhat. Same thing happened with Narinder Grewal...he wasnt a sikh so Panj Pyarey said they arent giving him any tankhiya because he isn't a Sikh. A lot of groups copy parts of Sikhi (DSS, Grewal's crew, naamdharis, radhaswamis, etc.) but that doesn't make them Sikh.

thanks

you are probably correct that we have different understandings of vedant.

my understanding of vedant is that it is similar to gurmat in the sense that it is about connecting your mind to your atma, or connecting your surat to shabad... but goes veery indepth in terms of chakars, koshas, different levels, etc.

kam, would you happen to know if there are plans to get the whole set of sant gurbachan singh's bhai gurdaas jee's vaaran katha made into CD's or put online?

the katha of sant gurbachan singh that is up already is pretty clear, you gotta put the volume up a bit for some files, but to tell you the truth I was surprised at how clear the files were when I first listened to them.

i agree with you 100%, that reading bani with vichar is the most important thing. But, where in gurbani (other than maybe gyan parbodh which I have no knowledge about) does it require you to have in depth knowledge of vedant?

Let me give an example. If a Singh without gyaan of vedant does abhyaas, his chakars will open even though he may not understand why it is happening. If he continues his abhyaas, if guru sahib does kirpa, his jaap will eventaully take him to his dasam duaar, even if he doesn't know about chakars. If someone with the gyaan does abhyiaas the same thing will happen to them, except they will understand the specific details of what is happening to them.

Kam, having listened to Sant Gurbachan Singhs katha of guru granth sahib, you will have them say over and over that so much gyaan is not necessary. Even in baavan akhree katha they do aarth of 'aae prabh sarnagatee, kirpa nidh dyaal. Eak akhar har man basat nanak hoth nihaal' and say that even if just a person obtains understanding of the updesh of just one of the 52 letters, it is more thn enough for them to be nihaal (dukh tho rehit).

Lastly, why do you need to know vedant to do veechar of bani? Sure it can help, but it isnt necessary. Why would you need knowledge of vedant to do veechar of a tuk such as 'simrou simar simar sukh pavou. kal kalaes tan maahi mitaavou.'?

In no way am I undermining gyaan by saying vedant is not necessary. I myself try to listen to katha of gurbani/ithihaas every as per hukam of guru gobind singh jee. All i said was knowledge of vedant is useful but necessary in a reply to you saying "In order to fall in love with vahiguroo, you NEED gyan of antishkaran..."

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I think the main issue from the start has been how the normal person has been manipulated by the akaalis as well as congress for their political motives, and the fact that punjabis haven't (once again) been able to see through the politicians.

and does anyone which nihang dals were involved in the protest...I keep reading in newspapers 'taksal and nihangs', but which nihangs got involved?

If nothing else, I think the positive that came out of this is the fact that we now that Sikhs in India still got some pride in them...whether they are Taksali, nihangs, typical pindus or even monay, there is still some pyaar for Sikhi (even if there is a lack of gyaan) and that a bit of prachaar in punjab could probably go a long ways in helping the situation there.

lastly....I dont think we've seen the last of this situation yet...

I dont agree. Having knowledge about those types of things is useful no doubt, but not necessary...even if you don't start of with the same sharda/pyaar as bhagat dhanna jee.

To say that it is necessary to learn all those things to develop pyaar with vaahiguroo is completely undermining gurbani in my opinion. Would you not think someone that does 5 sukhmani sahibs a day can 'fall in love' with vaahiguroo? Guru Nanak Dev Jee left us with such a simple path, one that any person living a grisht jeevna could follow and find liberation. The fact of the matter is that the majority people living a grisht jeevan don't have the time to learn vedant in depth, and in my opinion they don't need to. 'Vaahiguroo gurmantar hai, jap houmai khoee', and where there is no houmai, how can there be anything other than pyaar? Now i expect the reponse to this to be that how can you do jaap of gurmantar without gyaan, but honestly, do you not think guru sahib will take care of their Sikhs that follow their hukam? There is no need for us to overcomplicate Sikhi and say vedant is necessary.

Don't take this post the wrong way, im not saying you shouldn't learn vedant, but instead that it isn't necessary...the brahmgian given by Gurbani is higher than vedant.