Malwe Da Sher

Tony what you are saying is fairly wishy washy to say the least. Firstly Nihangs are mentioned in Bachiter Natak by Guru Gobind Singh JI. They are also mentioned in Bijai Mukht Granth believed to have been written at the times of 10th Guru, and mentioned in various Sau Sakhis all suggested the existed at the time of the Gurus. Both Sikh and European accounts of Sikh history state that it was explicity the rehat of the Nihangs which the Bandai Khalsa shurned. This states they existed before the late 18th Century. 'Kahan Singh Buchangi' and 'Gurbaksh Singh Nihang Singh', where the titles of Nihang is used in individuals names also proves that they exist. In historical writings when discussing a Singh there is specific mention of many that they dressed in blue, drank sukha etc - suggesting that not all Singhs prescribed to this rehat but that there certainly was a group who did. As we learn for the vaars of the second Bhai Gurdas Ji and other historical work, the Khalsa created by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was dressed in blue, an appearance which gradually decreased as the Sikhs came to rule and setlle in worldy affairs. In essence what happened was that the Sikh misldars settled and moved away from the jungee traditions of the Khalsa which the Nihangs maintained. You are stating the opposite here that as the Sikhs settled down a group of Nihangs started making up their own traditions. Commenting on Sri Sarbloh Granth is a bit problematic when your only source is something you have read from a wesbite. Have you read it to too see whether or not contains more Bir Ras than Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji? You may want to check that out before presenting your case regarding Sri Sarbloh Granth on every Sikh forum as you have been for some years. The literature of the Nihangs, the Nirmalas, the Europeans, Singh Sabha scholars and contemporary academics all trace the existence of Nihang Singhs to the time of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Some people may find your theories interesting but they go against oral history of the Nihangs themselves and more importantly contradicts pretty much every single piece on Sikh history ever written over three centuries which all trace the existence of Nihangs to the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. None the less, Im sure you shall battle on with your theory which will likely be joyfully subscribed to by the growing nihang-aphobes on Sikh chat forums, while providing a humourous read for anyone who has ever read a Sikh history book.

Shaheediyan im not denying the magnificene of what he teaches, but in terms of the ideology around which this has been constructed, "shiv akhara" etc, this is certainly not what the previous gurdevs of the Runjeet Akhara taught.

The lineage is no secret, neither is the deviation from ideology and philosophy of ealier ustads that will become apparent when one speaks to the many Nihang Singhs alive who spent time with Baba Giana Singh. There are also some Taksali Singhs alive, some of whom spent years learning from Baba Giana Singh. Not to mentioned how those ustads were always under the authority of the Dal, whereas the Akhara today things its older than the Dal and not bound by jurisdiction. Can a single reference from the various works on shastarvidiya written by Nihang Singh gianis and jathedars, or historcal texts revered by Nihangs Singh, be found even remotely suggesting that the Runjeet Akhara was ever also known as Shiv Akhara?

Tony are you saying that the Nihang rehat was invented during the mid 18th Century? Who was responsible for the creation of these Nihangs?

AS drawrof mentioned the lineage of someone comes into account one one appears to deviate from a tradition. Something which the Budha Dal and Singhs close to Baba Gian Singh Rub Ji are concerned Nidar Singhs is doing.

Watching the videos of Niddar Singhs demonstrations which have recently gone online, one cerainly must appreciate the beauty in what hes teaching. whatever ones view of him may be, they may as well accept this good martial arts he is teaching as leading martial artists have ackowledged it. Whether or not its the authentic Sikh martial art is questionable, even more so is the ideology within which this art has been advertised. In light of the great skill in his art the various sceptics that exist out there may seem foolish, but some blatanat lies which have been posted on certain websites are also the scause of scepticism and caution. Furthermore, the apparent agenda signified by the use various titles that this art is given through the times has also made people high sceptical and cautios about the underlying matters at hand here. Regardless to what some students have been fed, there are still students of Baba Giana Singh (aka Rub Ji) alive today, a simple trip the Dal followed by a few enquiries you can find out who they are. Here are some simple truths: If one visits the Bidhi Chand Dal they can speak to the Singhs and Jathedars there and ask them about Baba Giana Singh Ji, this will provide clarification of whether or not there is such a thing as 'Sanatan Hindu Sikh Shastar Vidiya' and whether this is part of the Shiv Akhara. This terminlogy is certainly unique as is the whole theory and history of the akhara compared to what was taught by Baba Giana Singh. There are many Singhs alive who spent time with Baba Gian Singh kicking around in different Dals, all will laugh at a so called "Santan Hindu Sikh Shastar Vidya". The martial expertise of Baba Santa Singh has been praised on the Shastarvidya site, there are many students alive who learnt from Baba Santa Singh Ji. There is also a book on Shastarvidiya written by Baba Gian Singh and published by Baba Santa Singh Ji. Do not be surprised if he find what the Budha Dal jathedars and leading practioners of Shastarvidya have written does not collarate to what is presented on Niddar Singhs websites. With regards to Nidar Singhs position in the Budha Dal, those close to Baba Santa Singh Ji always had access to blank letters signed o thumb printed by Baba Santa Singh Ji, of course the problematic nature of this has become apparent in recent times with the Balbir Singh fiasco. When someone is given jathedari, they are given nishan nagaray and and official letter stating that the Budha Dal has issued nishan nagaray to the following person for xyz reason, this is the maryada. No such letter exists, what does is a letter from a friend of Niddar Singh thanking him for a camera in which he refers to Nidar Singh as Jathedar, this is not conclusive. Again to repeat, Budha Dal maryada is to formally present a jathedar with nishan and nagaray, something no one has stated has been done. As well as being many changes to the terminlogy of shastarvidiya there are also condircting stories of how, from whom and when Nidar Singh learnt this. Furthermore there are various stories of Niddar Singhs herosim during the 80s etc, some of which I have heard from students I ask myself whether they actually believe it. Regardless of who has been responsible for these lies, the unfortunatel reality is lies sorround the teacher of Shastarvidiya in the UK and for that reason people will be sceptical of pretty much everything which sorrounds it. Particuarly as misinformation has been pesented on certain Sikh figures and organisation on their websites. There is not much point dwelling on these points, anyone seeking further clarification should go to India and speak dirctly with Budha Dal Singhs and jathedars of other Dals. Theres no agenda or hatred towaards anyone here. Niddar Singh outstanding ability which he posses must be respected, however his website openly issues Hadh Torh challenges, why did he not accept any of the offers of Hadh Torh that Singhs made to him in India during 300 Sala? Both his supporters and opponents seem to be ignorant of or reluctant to ignore some simple truths. Also can any students of shstarvidiya please give their views on whether the power of Gurbani provides ridhia sidia to Singhs in warfare?

Opinions people are intitled to and they are also entitled to interpret things that way they wish. One can look at the Baba Santa Singh situation in isolation of the dirty politics which ever leader of Punjab was involved in thats fine. What was posted on Sikhsangat was someone stating that sexual misconduct occurred within the Akal Takht during the Budha Dals presence there, a lie which the moderators were content to keep on their board and only edited after some days following the initiation of this thread.

see below

cheers bro

farla is always blue, although it does look like johal vale sants tie it like a farla.

kam veerai do u know why johal vale sants wear a turla?

The existence of the sampradas, their invaluable contributions to the panth, their historical lineage and existence from the times of the Gurus is accepted fairly widely. What is condentable is the linear four samprada paradigm within which all historical Sikhs abided, particuarly as the sampradas themselves are internally diverse. The Nihang Singhs appear to be the most inernally homogenious of the sampradas, although them themselves tend very rarely to refer to themselves as a samprada, if at all.

Tbh I think a lot of the problems and confusions are a result of the way the whole 4 (+ or - 1) samprada theory has been constructed by certain websites. IMHO The samprads were always dynamic in so much as they were diverse lineages of great individuals living and sharing the Gurus teachings in their chosen way or as dictated by their teacher. An attempt to neatly constrcut all Sikhs within the four samprada is false, I dont think thats what the sarbloh site has explicity done but certainly the way it has been interpreted by its critics. This, coupled with their provoking disregard for other Sikhs is what provides ammo to Nihang-aphobes such as Tony to continually hamper on with his false wet dreams that there has never been any such thing as a Nihang - a theory which even an amatuer in Sikh history would know to be laughable. Khalsa is Khalsa, thats the fundmental point here which has to be accepted without any agenda of promoting one jathebandi over another. There are ample historical references the rehat of Buchangis or Nihangs which has included consumption of Sukhnidhan and practise of Chatka, wearing of blue bana, carrying naked khande, caryying solater etc. In terms of these jungee Khalsa traditions those who have preserved them are today reserved with the title Nihang. Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji and various other sant mahapursh were undoubtedly great warrior saints within the Khalsa panth. Cetain Nihang influences can certainly be seen in their jeevan, yet to call them a Nihang is maybe understandable as they were shastardhari khalsa, however to do so is misleading as clearly their rehni behni was different and they did not wholeheartedly follow all aspects of the Nihang rehat - something which Nihang Singhs of today within the dals endeavour to do so.

ditto

Main thing is you do simran, after that its to do simran selflessly. The mind works a mllion tricks to prevent yo from doing simran. I Remember hearing kath of a bhagat who started doing simran because his mum would give him a sweat if he meditated for a while. Slowly the bliss from simran was important than the sweat his mum left. Same with when you do simran, the more you d the more you gradually become distanced from desire.

Very post post forward.

www.nihangsingh.org its on the front page

Chatanga man there used to be a time you were the one making all the silly typo mistakes on this forum lol, now you are the one correcting. Dhan Baba Nanak. I meant thread.

What kind of bird is this? Neo Baba Ji lets start a new threat on Sikh Falconry

Eventually certain posts have been deleted and nor do I have a wish to repeat the disgusting filth that was posted there. Its ashame it takes such a fuss and many days for moderators to do something about it when they usually act promtly to censor or delete posts going against their agenda such as the jeevani of a brahmgiani not aligned to their jatha.

Cheers bro. Please try and find out name of the author when you get a chance. Is it widely available?

I doubt it if they were taksali I would imagine they would take a stand on raagmala. also im sure they wouldnt delete links to taksali websites such as the they did regarding the article on Bhai Randhir Singh meeting Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhinderanwale.

I read on the tapoban some of the Singhs from AKJ who said they were present at the meeting and how they had been beaten up by other members of the jatha for opening their mouth and thus silenced.

Shaheediyan not sure i have come across the Amarnama before could you please shed some more light.

deleted a post on baba mit singh ji? why on earth would they do that