BabbarSher

Well I understand that you must be busy, still can I get a reply on my post above.

Well, I need a listing of all the websites which have PDF downloads about sikhi,..full length books and lots of reading materials, especially full length books. Can anyone please help.

Te aseeen saare baki ..de .... hain ..asin bewakoof haan ;-) :-) lol Joking

Sikhi is a SuperHighway and travelling on this Superhighway, you reach the city of the Khalsa ...whereafter you meet Waheguru. Firstly I fully understand that you are not marrying a a non-sikh, as you had mentioned the same in one of yor earlier posts. Perhaps I have a possiveness about the gals of my religion :-) Secondly, I have tried to proove that inter religion marriages are not 'right', because of differences in religions on various respects. I think it is true. You say that you stand by what you say. Good. But can you please answer the issues and the possible solutions to what I said in my post? (Done give me the obvious answer ..that Love can transcend all barriers) Dont be disheartened, Mr.Singh's or my heart may be a bit small to accomodate a lot of people into Sikhi, but the Guru's and Waheguru's heart is very large. I dont agree with the translation provided by Mr.Singh. One cannot take Amrit by force, the feeling has to come from within. Continue on this path and evolve. Like I said, a sikh must continually evolve into a better person, and then he is a sikh, because he is learning the teachings of his Guru and acting on them. Evolving is the key word here. A person may be a mona at birth, keep hair whne young and take amrit when he/she is 40. So does it make he/she a sikh. Definately does, cause they evolved. On the other hand a person may be born a kehsadhari, become a mona or remain like that. I dont think such a person qualifies to be a sikh. Some people may take amrit but may keep believing in Bipran Ki Reet? What of them.....?? Nothing of them I would say... Nothing Various such permutations can combinations may be worked out and some may be very tricky situations. But in the end it is for the Guru to decide and for Waheguru to decide on the question if sikhi, who sits in every persons heart....we can only give pointers In effect when we have read the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and have understood it, our conscience will ourselves give an answer, whether we are sikh or not. and belive me you cant fool your consicence. My suggestion as always is to read your Guru. Please dont treat Guru Granth Sahib as just a Holy Book. Guru Ji is our present and eternal Guru. Please have the same feelings for Guru Ji as you would for Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. Do so and the Guru will guide you ...Please give it a try :-) N30 Singh ...Very Good :-) excellent explanation

I had sometime ago heard of a quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which I am giving below: It is by Guru Amar Dass Ji and he gives a definition of Husband and Wife: mÚ 3 ] Third Mehl: mÚ 3 ] mehlaa 3. Dn ipru eyih n AwKIAin bhin iekTy hoie ] They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Dn ip{ Eih n AwKIAin bhin ekTy hoe ] Dhan pir ayhi na aakhee-an bahan ikthay ho-ay. eyk joiq duie mUrqI Dn ipru khIAY soie ]3] They alone are called husband and wife, who have one light in two bodies. ||3|| Ek joiq due mUrqI Dn ip{ khIEy soe ]3] ayk jot du-ay moortee Dhan pir kahee-ai so-ay. ||3|| As you can see.....in the light of Gurbaani, Husband and Wife are one light in two bodies. Such is the relationship advocated by Gurbaani. Now when we talk about inter-religious marriages, I am of the opinion that it is tough to have the relationship advocated above. The reasone being that religion is to do with the spirit. It has to do with the belief, with the faith. Lets take an example of different religions. I would like to ask you a few questions and ascertain for your self the truth of whether religions differ ! 1. Jews: Who according to Judaism is a true Jew ? What is the ultimate word of God ? Is God jealous of the other dieties ? What are the qualities of God ? Who is entitiled to meet God? 2. Christians: Who is the only son of God? Who is our only saviour in this world? Since Christianity is all about love (like Christians say) OR do we have to go to this saviour still ? Who is entitiled to meet God? 3. Muslims: What is the perfect religion? Who is the best and the ultimate prophet of God? Can we be saved through any other prophet? What do we have to say to meet God ..kalim? Is it ok to just praise God..and love our fellow human beings ...or do we need to do anything more than that? 4. Buddhism: Is there any God? If not what is the purpose of our existence? If we are not going to meet him because u are silent on this issue....whats the prpose of living a good life.....we might as well freak out each time we come back through reincarnation? Whatever the answers, you will realise that all the above mentioned religions are different in their views Sikhism is on the other hand a unifying religion. Why ? Because the Gurus choose not to mock the other religions before them? They only criticised the stupid practices of these religions. The Gurus instead of focussing on converting, asked these people to delve into their religion and go into the spirtual aspect and practise it, keeping their faith in their prophets. Those who thought that the sharan of the Guru was required were welcomed and they were the sikhs. The sikhs were transformed, slowly into the Khalsa..perfect human being. Please note that the Khalsa formation was done gradually, not all of s sudden, and that it is this form that all of us as sikhs,non-sikhs must strive to reach. I would say that even if you have not taken Amrit and become a Khalsa, you are a sikh, if everyday you strive to become khalsa ..one day ... having said the above, I would ask you to analyse the above quotation I provided from Guru Granth Sahib. Isnt it highlighted that marriage is more than just a physical meetig of the 2 bodies, that it goes down to the spirit. How then can a person cope with the spirtual differences within and become one in spirit. You can only become one in spirit with your husband if you have same ideology, same spirtual thinking, same beliefs. Otherwise, it will always be physical and will always amount to physical things. And by physical I dont jUST MEAN sex...but daily things like reciting Asa Di Vaar---in front of a muslim husband (as you know Asa di Vaar critices such core beliefs of muslim like .....belief in Judgement Day etc.) or reciting Waheguru in fron ot a Buddhist husband or mentioning in fron of him 'Man Preet charan kamla re' ...OR for that matter deciding on petty things/pratcices like circumcision etc. It could also be that when the Muslim husband says .."La Ilaha ....Muhamm Ul Rasool ....".....Would your mind accept that? I dont know...life is al about making choices...it is all about taking decisions....it is all about sacrifices, that we have to make..that we need to make. i dont know what type of relationship a girl may have with a boy...what amount of love she may feel for a boy.....BUT beliive me in 27 years of my life and experience in more than 4 countries, I havent noted true love between a boy and girl before marriage. True Love only exists after marriage, after you discover each other, not before and even after marriage only a handful come to know what love is. Why isnt it funny that I find that in our generation 'true' love comes to the fore after seeing the handsomeness/beauty of the person, that after seeing the social standing of the person .....why dont boys/girls fall in love with 'not so nice looking' people of the opposite sex....very poor.. Well if it is not about physical attraction, it is about mental qualities..(he/she is nice, kind, humouros etc.) I think love ..and true love transcends all this ..cause if I were to analyse...one can loose mental or physical traits in a second....well even less than a second. Will LOve remain ? Yes if it is true.....cause then u love at a spirtual level and that is the level at which saints love God.... (remember u never loose the spirit). The choice is upto you... if you want to go for the guy you love, please go.....but remember that you made that choice, remember that you are leaving the House of the Guru........ not association with God....for you may find God in the other religion....... Now it is up to you whether you consider this choice to be worth it.....to leave the Gurus for a guy. Remember that you are being selfish. (yes thats true ,though it may sound a bit blunt) .......dont try to give explanations or justifications, because there are none. You asked a simple question and a simple answer is that it is not ok for a sikh girl to marry a nonsikh boy....and vice a versa... and for that matter any interreligion marriage. It is ok if either of them converts to other religion. Sometimes I wonder, what would have happened, if our Gurus had been as selfish as we are (please note I am including myself...in the category selfish)...........well Guru Arjan Dev ji for once could have saved his life. Guru Gobind Singh Ji his father, Bhai mani Singh Ji his life. The Chotte Sahibzaade could have got muslim girls as their wives and all the riches in the world...and Guru Gobind Singh ji wouldnt have to look at the Khalsa and say.......................... In Putran Ke Sees pe Vaar Diye sut chaar chaar muye to kya huya, jeevat kayi hazaar. I am not trying ti make you emotional..because I have realised that people are intelligent enuff ..so that they cannot be made emotional if they dont want to be Remember it is all about choices in life....Make a choice, accept it and remember that YOU made it, and toy have to live with it and bear the consequences. As far as caste, is concerned.....there is absolutely nothing wrng with inetr caste marriges except compatibility on a pure cultural level which can be worked out ....because the spirit can still be one. Sorry if I was too blunt.

caste does NOT matter to me or do i have to give it on a stamped paper to you people..(Rupy and you)....[ and i dont think it matters to any of the other memebers....You should be proud to be a sikh of the Guru ji .......:-) ..not some punjabi or some chooda, or some jatt or some khatri .... OK No One but 'KHALSA' RULES !!!!!!! Recognize the Lord`s Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause|| jaanhu jot na poochhahu jaatee aagai jaat na hay. ||1|| rahaa-o. and Page 1127 No one should be proud of his social class and status. jaat kaa garab na karee-ahu ko-ee. He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1|| barahm binday so baraahman ho-ee. ||1|| Do not be proud of your social class and status, you ignorant fool! jaat kaa garab na kar moorakh gavaaraa. The above updesh hold true for all castes !

Good links Lalleshvari. I think the wahabi boy has run our of steam....but I think he has gone to study about sikhi ( I am sure he will study all the wrong, non-authentic sources) and come back with even more stupid questions, than 'pantheistic' .....whatever ... :-)

""lol you just contradicted your own self... u brought punjabi culture into it by revealing ur a jatt..(whether it matters little or more ) cuz matter is matter..."" I dint understand how I brought Punjabi culture into this by making that last statement. Perhaps if ur highness can elaborate, it would be good ;-) :-) Anyway Bhain Ji tusin taan sayane we bade ho to hoshiyaar we bade.. te maaf karna ji.....munh fat te ladake we bade.. :-) Changa Bhain Ji....mainu Maaf Kardo ....mere ton Galti Ho gayi. bahut waddi.....jo tuhade Hundiyaan message post kita. Tusin Daang Fad lao te ..wahni shuru kar diyo...duniya di aisi di taisi ;-) Ki Majal je koi sardarnian di tareef kar je... Just for your info....i am not into caste and stuff.... :-)

Jamuka: I said 'Sikh Gals' and 'Sardarnis' and that means all of em ...and not someone from a particular region like Punjab. (I am not particularly fond of all punjabans..if they are not sikh) Post which 'Punjabi Guys' kitthon aa gaye........u should have said 'sikh guys' ....................... !!!!!???? And anyway this post is meant for the sikh gals who are more or less criticised. by people like me.....so way of telling em that we are not all criticism and they have all of our respect ..and love.....OK :-) So dont bring this 'cultural' 'punjabi' thing into the picture ... Now someone would jump up and say Jatt guys .... are smart ....!!!! So thats a NO NO...at least for this post You want to post such a thing, start your own thread and let the people react. P.S. for ur info ...(although it matters the least to me...as it should to any sikh )..I am jatt and belong to punjab.............

Ahem Ahem..............stick to topic ;-) :-) theek ee aya .. Moderators kitthe bhaj gaye ..mainu tuhaada kamm karna penda hai :-) lol I dont know what the fight is all about, but if anyone can explain that wud be gr8 :-) . Jo we kaho menu taan sarian sardarnian badian cute lagdiyan aa...as compared to gals of other religions (nothing subjective ok ....sorry babes (of oder religions.........) :-) ....cause they lack one important ingredient ......faith in sikhi .. Ok OK .....i dont wanna sound like a 'blowing my own horn' ..so will stop my 'tareef' thing and let da oder guys pay there respects and let their feelings known. Now gussa thukko ...and gale milo ..cause u both are just half an hours drive ...away .. :-) ...lol ...

Tawheed Ji: I asked you a simple question The meaning of Islam. I did not ask for quranic quotes. But if you have chosen the path, then Quran may come out with some contradictions to what you quoted. Why I find it funny that when defining pantheism and stating that sikhi believes in pantheism, you candidly quote Webster's. Perhaps you should have studied our Guru. Can I ask you to give a simple definition of the word Islam once again. I think Islam means submission to God and God alone. Well even if I were to quote from Quran, I would quote as follows: (which clearly show that the Prophet was a warner, not meant to be convertor. He was a servant of God, not meant to supersede God's authority. 1. "Thou (Muhammad) art not responsible for guiding them (non-Muslims) but God guides whomsoever He will." (The Cow, II: 275) "Thou (Muhammad) art only a warner, and God is the guardian over everything." (Hood, II: 15) "Your Lord knows you (Muhammad) very well; if He will, He will have mercy on you, or, if He will, He will chastise you; We (Allah) sent thee not to be a guardian over them." (The Night Journey, XVII: 55) He should be respected of course, by muslims because God chose him to reveal Quran: as per your belief. However he cannot be a part of the defination of Islam Islam does not mean submission to God and Prophet. Why the Quran also says that Islam is a religion started by Abraham: "the creed of your father Abraham, who named you Muslims:" (The Pilgrimage: 75)" Defination of Islam please..... And if you are a believer in Islam, you should follow the Quran above .....for if Allah did not allow Prophet Mohammed to be a preacher, how can he give you the authority to preach with the aim of conversion. Why since you are not even close to the Prophet in spirtuality, you may NOT even be a warner, like the Prophet was ordained to be !!!!! Akal Sahai, Babbar Sher

Waheugur Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Thank you for the compliments Tawheed. However your answers are not satisfactory, simply because you have quoted the Quran as the source of all your answers. Simply put I dont believe in the Quran. Remember you are trying to convert a person who does not belive in your religion, so to quote from your religion/text would not be appropriate. Logic/Generalisations would be better. I belive you have also missed out on some very important and may be touchy issues in my post. I will write in detail about what you have missed. Why I dont, believe in Quran I will answer in detail citing the many fallacies, which do not make it the qualify to be the complete word of God. I will post in detail the responses to your questions tommorrow. Akal Sahai, Babbar Sher

I had this in my mind for so long and wanted it to say it aloud but never got the oppotunity. also I have been critical of our gals at sometime in my life....so repenting as well. I just wanted to say that Sikh Gals are the best. I simply Love em . :-) They are beautiful in mind and are are very sohni as well :-) [[ big blush ]] Please people dont mind this childish post :-) Babbar Sher

Dear Tawheed: Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Welcome to our forum. It is a pleasure to know that you are open to discussion , which might ultimately lead you to change the basic concepts regarding your belief. Might we assume that if the logical conclusion is for your current hypothesis to be wrong, that Tawheed would in future happily accept to be a sikh. It is also welcome to note that you accept that be it any religion all of them belive in God. What then may I ask you is the defination of Disbeliever ? A Kafir ? Is he/she someone who does not belive in one God, or is he/she someone who does not believe in the Prophet Mohammed. Who then is central to Islam ? Is it the Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed or is it God. If it is God, then the discussion ends, because by your very statement, every religion belives in God.....so the need of conversion to a "superior" faith is not required. If on the other hand, the question is of the acceptance of Prophet Mohammed, then the whole of Islam stands on a shaky base...........for isnt the meaning of Islam ----complete submission to God NOT to Prophet Mohammed !!!!???? Anyway, : Firstly, you must learn about oure religion before commenting upon it. The very basis of your post is 'Pantehsim' - And you Sikhs believe that God is everywhere and in everything (Pantheism) and believe, although not all, that He too manifested Himself as a human, i.e. Gurus. I advise you to read the Mulmantar - the first page of our current and eternal Guru Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The qualities of God therein include - Ajooni (one who does not come into joons - one who does not take birth or die). This single word alone is an elaborate answer to your claims, that we believe in God having manifest himself in the Gurus. What we do belive in is that, by HIS grace alone, the qualities of the person undergo such a change, that the human qualities change to Godly qualities, so that no one can distinguish between God and his saints. This is not a statment of'ego', yet of Love and is attributed to God. Please remember that the central theme of sikhi is 'Gurprasad' - Grace of Master (God and Guru) This is exactly what sikhism is - Sikh (disciple) and Guru (Master). The sikhs belive that God is the life force pervading in the Universe, throughout it. God does not take birth, but his life force is present in all. It is because of God that all come into being. But this does not mean that you have to start worshipping the stones, the river, the water. They are the creations of God. Sikhism says that you have to Love/worship the creator and not the creation. I think that your concepts about sikhism are much misplaced, and you need to get some authentic information. For e.g. you quote from Quraan: "And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fairseeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.†" The quote is not applicable to sikhs at all. And by your own statement, not applicable to any other religion as well. How did you conclude that the sikhs belive in something other than Ek onkaar, One God, Waheguru, Ram, Allah ? This again is pointer to my first question. According to this quote then, the disbeliever is a person who does NOT belive in one God. (Please note that the Quraan does not make a refernce to the belief in Prophet Mohammed). You would like to call a spade a spade and falsehood a falsehood. That is so very interesting for in fact I am of the same opinion. I really find it very hard to digest that physical concepts of heaven and hell, the 'sharik' to God - his angels (assistants) and devils, the concept of judegement day, the concept of creation of Universe etc. etc. I hope you would not mind, if we took the liberty of calling 'a spade a spade' ourselves. HOWEVER I have seen that muslims start shying away from these things, as do they shy away from the Stanic Verses episode involving Prophet Mohammed. Interesting that wherever our Gurus went (Baghdad), the muslim saints recognised them as prophets, and fell to their feet. And personally I think the muslims saints of earlier days had a much better understanding than the normal muslims have. You are very welcome to discuss about our belief, but we expect that you will be equally open about discussing your beliefs. Like our Gurus advise, the muslims of early days, so is our advise to you, delve into your religion, try to find out the meaning of ur religion on a spirtual front, find God, Love God, become one with him, proclaim the supremacy of God, rather than the supremacy of Prophet Mohammed. To quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji: Page 140 Shalok, First Mehl: Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. Page 141 First Mehl: There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names. Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God. Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord. Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim. Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood. Akal Sahai, Babbar Sher

No Ignoring !!!! They will take your ignoring to be your weakness. No more toleration to such comments !!! of course unless u want the whole world to think that we are stupid. Lets be united and act. Things will start as a joke, and future generations fed on these jokes will eventuallyt think that sikhs are in reality dumb. We must remember that the potrayal of turbaned, beareded sikhs as tupid, third grade people, actually led to a lot of young sikhs to either feel inferior or be patit. WE MUST FIGHT SUCH PROPAGANDA !!!!! TO HELL WITH TOLERANCE !!!! Whats the action plan people !!! I wonder how Sanjay Dutt would feel if someone.....would to joke about his Hindooos. Anyway having said that the word hindoo is a joke in itself...it means daku, lotera, thug :-) Need we say more than that Sanjay Dutt is a true Hindoo hee hee hee. anyway one needs to see al jazeera to know how they potray hinduism and the cow urine and faeces therapy ..yuck..

hee hee thanks Ideal singh ji. U guys hallasheri keeps me going ;-)

Very nice explanation :-) So from the above we can deduce that the message of True Religion is Constant - this leads to the question - why so many religions? In fact there is a quote in SGGS also pointing towards the same.

I ask questions cause i wanna know what i believe in. I wanna know what and for what reasons am i doing what i'm doing. Another question, when someone is dying, we all tend to do paht... Path is NOT meant for the soul who has passed away. It is meant to calm people who are behind and tell them the eternal truth. About Life and death and about this world like being a dream. To reinforce why we are actually here in this life. What do we do paht for...the calmin' of ones soul or to bring them back to life? NO ONE BUT GOD ALONE CAN BRING ANYONE TO LIFE. PAATH IS NOT A MANTAR. But wouldn't we be acting like manmukhs if we ask God to keep a person alive?... A true singh would say that he be given strength of to live in his will. He wiould be happy on whatever happenes in his will, much like our Gurus. still everyone cant be that strong, so out of our hubleness, we ask God, to grant our wishes, just like child asks his/her father or mother.

After this post, I'm not gonna keep buging ya'll... I'm just confused... If someone can answer these qusetions to me...if possible... What's the thing i hear that the soul goes through 8.4 Million reincarnations? 8.4 million is a large number given to indicate the endless cycle of births. How can we know this is true? Tha same way that you know that theory of Relativity is True. You trust the person who gave you this theory, because he was more intelligent than all of us, combined. If some one has studied physics, they know that light has got dual nature 1.wave nature 2. particle nature scientists use, the one which suits their need for that particular postulate. and we belive it cause they have gone deep and studied. Now in case of our religion, we have to trust our Guru (thats being Gurmukh) cause the Guru has gone through the studies, the iterations and has shown us the true path. Why are there so many religions? And How do we know which one is right? Very tough to give an answer. But the essence of all religions is love OR in the beginning was Love. Maybe it changed over time. and perhaps the answer is no written proof of what was preached by the starters of these religions. Thats why the Gurus composed Guru Granth Sahib during their lifetime and also made SGGS our eternal Guru Listen, i may sound like im talking from a depressed view. But i'm just really confused. I sit around for hours thinking about this, and all this runs into my head. Like i don't find happines in false things like, drinking, etc, money...and I'm sure if start to "live" like that again I'll never find true happiness...I understand exactly what the Gurus said, it makes a lot of sense...they keeping of the kesh etc...but i'm just confused on the whole big picture... Like what happens to those who cut their hair? but they don't mean harm, where do they go? Dont be depressed. Take a cool picture. God doesnt get angry or frustrated. To him all this is a play. Think of it as a school, where you graduate from one class to another. Some fail the grades, and start over again. Some pass and move to another grade, till the time you actually clear the school. But God is in no hurry. Heis going to give you chances, he is going to give evryone chances. It is not that you have one life and if by chance you make a mistake, you are condemned eternally. You will come back, live again etc. But then the essence is that if in this life (as of now) you have founbd the Guru with the belsssings of God, you are going to attain him. It is as if you have found a special tutor, who is going to take extra classes, and make you pass with flying colours. What about those, that dont really follow religon, but help others and are clean-hearted? Being clean hearted and helpging others - at least are two vital points of sikhi. Guru Nanak dev Ji said, Truth is high...Higher still is Truthful living I've been causing pain for my family for absolutely no reason, they ask me whats my problem, and I say nothing...if i tell them its Sikhi, they will laugh and mock at me...and say Sikhi says to respect ur parents and to live life not just waste it...but I just want some more knowledge...maybe this knowledge can never be gained? Of course this knowledge can be gained. First put your trust in your Guru - Guru Granth Sahib. Read slowly, explore. read good books. and discuss. ALRITE SORRY TO BOTHER YOU ALL FOR THE 25th billionth time... and another question, to the boy who died, "Vijay Singh" what will happen to him? Poor kid died from evil eh...but was it right for him to committ suicide at that age?...would have you reccomended him to cut his hair instaed? It is our weakness that made him die. Those who die like this are martyrs. Sura So Pahchaniye, Jo Lare Deen ke Het...................... Life is always not digital - do this or do that.......the point is to find a solution. If someone could have provided a counselling, the kid may have survived. Dont worry he is with Guru Ji...thats all we can say for now I get questions like you don't need to keep your hair to become close to God...yeah but I SEE WHY WE KEEP OUR KESH, not for God, but for Sikhi and the martyrs and the gurus...and they kind of contradict their own words... It is just like you love someone. The person gives you a gift. What do you do with the gift? Do you throw it ? Do you keep it ? If you throw it.....how does the person react ? We keephair because: our Master, the Gurus asked us to ....because they say that it shows love for your Husband Lord, because hair is a gift from God. Why people who cut hair, dont get punished, is because, just like a person who loves you doesnt punish you even when you throw away the gift, even it hurts him when he sees his gift being plundered or thrown away. I DONT KNOW...i have a perfectly good life...but just some whack questions... Like The Admin said, there is nothing wrong in asking questions. Let them pour forth from the bottom of your heart. My advice: [glow=red:3feae639d3] Be patient--you are young and in this age these questions are normal Learn slowly Listen to Gurbaani Keertan --even if at first you dont understand it. pick a tune thats is pleasing to you. Dont be extreme-----either totally down or toaly on top of the world. dont take decisions in the heat of the moment.[/glow:3feae639d3]

yeah this time I beat you to it Mr.Singh..otherwise its me whos always late ;-) hee hee

Singh Ji..thodi patience rakhiya karo.... I dint ask yo u to read Japji sahib and understand it in a single day .. Anyway good that you are back to normal :-)

Very interesting topic. In fact this topic has crept up many a times. Let me share some of my experiences, thoughts and beliefs with you. I am not saying they are authorative, but do give them some thought, as some thought has been put into them Firstly, let me share a recent experience with you. I in fact got in touch with a person who is an aethist, and we really got involved in discussions on God. It turned out that she did belive in a supreme power, but not in God. I make a similar deduction from the comments of you 2 above. Perhaps then we need to look at the concpet of God that is imbibed in our minds from the earliest days. If we were to ask a child to make a apictire of God, it would wary: Perhaps in india (due to the multiple mythological serials being shown)..God's image would be that of a richly clad person, with flowing locks and a clean face, sometimes with multiple limbs, sometimes reclining on a Kamal etc. A child who has studied in Christian schools, would perhaps (and I have studied in a Convent) make a picture of a bearded, old man, clad in whites, sitting ona aThrone etc. Someone in Jewish region would make God as a person, seated on a throne, some one who is angry etc. Clearly different images, with a single commonality: the image is of a person. This then is the image of God pervading most human beings. Now in the light of Sikhi, is this true ? Is God someone who is person like? Or maybe even if he is formless, is he based at a single place. Even if he is at a single place, is he present at only a single point in time ? One thing is very clear, Gurbaani gives a very clear indication of God. The question then as posed above is what is his defination. If there is a defination, can we really deifne him, or can we only give some indicators. To find the answers, lets analyse the Mul Mantar: Ek Onkaar - There is only one God Satnaam - True is his name (that is only HIS name is true, the rest is relative--can be false/true) Karta Purakh - the doer Nirbhau-Doesnt fear anyone Nirvair-doesnt have any enemies Akaal Murat - he is beyond time Ajooni - doesnt get born/doesnt die Saibhang - he gets born from himself Gurprasad - can be attained by the Kirpa of the Guru (True Master) (I am sorry If I missed out on translating anything) These then are the indicators. The indicators and a lot of other Shabads, give us an insight that the God of the sikhs is not a person like personality. He does not sit on a throne at a single place in time. He is an ever permeating force. prevailing at all places and at all points in time. Can I humbly request you to please read Japji Sahib - line by line with translation by Prof. Sahib Singh Ji. Please follow thw following methodology: First read the whole paath and the meaning and then tryu to extract the learning - whatever u may have grasped Therafter do the following First Day 1. Read first line 2. Read the meaning 3. Anaylse 4. Think and query urself: write doen your queries. the thoughts that arise in ur mind. DONT MAKE ANY JUDGEMENTS AT THIS STAGE!!!!!! GURBAANI MUST BE READ AND UNDERSTOOD IN THE FULL CONTEXT. Second day 1. Read first line 2. Read second line 2. Read the meaning 3. You will find many questions answered After the first few days, you can start adding more lines EACH DAY (insetad of 1 per day) - cause ur mind will find it easier to assimilate. You will find the indicators to God, what he is like (not what he is totaly..no one can describe him. You have made the following posting and I would like to reply pointwise, just so that I dont miss out on an important point. Before I start, let em narrate, that one summer night, when I was kid, I was lying with my father on our rooftop watching the stars. and queried him? What is God ? He thought for a minute and then gave me a reply from Japji Sahib- Page 5 of Guru Granth Sahib. Only one a high and as great as himslef can know him. "babbarsher not everyone believes that there is a God. I think the sikh world view accomodates for them, as well as other kinds of faiths. " The sikhi world view is not devoid of God. Those who say against it, have not studied Guru Granth Sahib - fully or in part. Like I said the explanation of God/or his characterstics is different, not the concept per se. "I mean we can all learn from sikhi. Discipline, fidelity, Social Justice, Appreciation of the universe and its beauty. etc. Or even if you just want to go about your life by contemplating God all the time. " Very true. but one must aim for completion. Khalsa in mind and body is completion "I am unsure if we actually have a choice in the matter or if we are destined to do so. If it is a matter of destiny, then who are we to question his Will. If people are destined to live not believing there is a God. Then thats his business, isnt it? " You are born a sikh, or You get to know about sikhi. Indicators clearly thatGod wants you to know about him. He doesnt force anyone to belive in him, love him, hate him. You are free to do whatever you want to. An anology can be given as follows: We are born of parents, they are made of flesh and blood and are mortals, yet even they never force you to love them. Yet 90% of us do. Why? Becuase they love us, for who we are. God loves you for who you are. He doesnt mind what you say of him. Why should he. He is the absoloute truth and nothing compares to him. Yet, this gives rise to a dilemma. If God loves everyone- does that mean that he loves - killers, rapists etc. ? Try thinking about your parents - they love you, but if you do anything wrong to a person, they are usually the first ones to point out the mistake. Please remember that if God created man - who turned into a rapist, he also created Guru Gobind Singh Ji - who brought forth Khalsa, to punish this category. Please understand that the rapist is a manmukh. He is doing what he is doing under the influence of 'ego'. "I dont know if accept this view so much, but if its the sikh view, i guess i should understand it at least, even if i dont agree with it. I like to think humans are capable of deciding how they wish they to lead their lives, including the choice of whether or not there is a creator. And if you decide either way, then its your personal choice and so on. " In sikhi there are two categories- Manmukh and Gurmukh Manmukh is one who listens to his mind and acts accordingly. Gurmukh is one who listens to his Guru and acts accordingly. The choice is yours, but so are the consequences. God is impartial - he has a set of rules----and those rules apply. On the physical level--those rules are manifested like Laws of Gravitation. The guide is in front of you. It is up to you to decide, whether you want to follow his advise or try groping in the dark. When you are a Gurmukh---you follow what the Guru says. You enter a different plane---the laws dont apply---because you are doing what the true Guru is saying and you wont do something wrong. still if Maya influences sometimes, trust the Guru to take care of that. "But then i also think if say i believe God exists, then i can believe so many other things. Like God has the ability to change my fate, and change basically anything in the system. Where the system here is our universe. Just because hes capable doesnt mean he does. And i wish to stress that my usage of hte pronoun He here does not arise from a anthropomorphic idea of God. I just think fair enough, I believe in Truth, and thats my choice. And then Truth comes to me in various ways. Mainly through intuition, but mostly when iam thinking. SO thats my choice there, to think. and understand. " Lets take a different look at God: Lets try to logically deduce God from a timeline----- HomoSapiens---->Mammals---->birds-->reptiles---->aquatic life--->plants----->amoeba--->single celled-->bacteria---->virus---->DNA/RNA----------chemicals-------> chemcials came from stars-----> stars came from matter etc.-------> matter came from ------>>????? Science doesnt have an answer to this. Forget a clear answer, they dont even give a hazy answer. The again, doenst it sound so very hollow, if we are born, marry, reproduce, die .....................!!!! whats the intent for leading life which is so tough on oneself ? These are questions which are answered by Guru Granth Sahib. Pity that we never devote anytime to it. I think there is something more than meets the eye...something beyond the obvious. In Guru Granth Sahib all this has been called a 'play' a Khel. Can I request you to underatke another exercise: Please go to www.srigranth.org Search under english for the word in quotes: "khayl" When in doubt ask your Guru. Always go to Guru Granth Sahib and ask your question. 100% answer ensured. Can you please read japji Sahib and we can continue this discussion. I will in any case welcome your views.

Well the logical thing to ask would be..that if God does not exist....what in the blue blazes are we doing here. Doesnt it sound meaningless..to live life and in the end die ...just burn out like a flame. Whats the purpose of this whole play ? Look into the mirro and think..who is this person in the mirror. Just do it..it should get a thought process which should result in the logical deduction of God. (if thats what people would like to have) :-)

I havent been able to find the full paragraph but i think it is in one of the sikh baal phulwaari magazines. and ine 2-3 Gurmat Parakash's....will try to do some more research. Probabably will query the sikh missionaory guys

Yaar Confuse na kar Yaar.. :-) ..not again ;-)