stopsingh

Just off the top of my head Baba Jaidev Ji lived in the 12th century Baba Sheik Farid Ji lived in 13th century. Baba Kabir Ji was born 70/80 years prior to Guru Nanak Dev Ji Baba Dhanna Ji in the 15th century. Not like now when there are hundreds of so called Sant all born in the 20th century. Our Guru Ji thmselves referred to these Bhagats as Sant. So our Guru Ji themselves set the standard and told us who the Sant were. If people think these Sant Samaj wale are up to the standard set by our Guru Ji then they only kidding themselves. Can you see a sant samaj wala sitting in boiling water or on a hotplate ? Far from it they would be phoning there ustaad in delhi to get out of it. Remember that so called Sant Fateh Singh who used to take fasts to death every other week ? Poor chap used to be so hungry after a day or so that he used to have big glasses of milk delivered to him in the evening. After 2 days he used to claim a break through had been made in delhi so he could give up his fast.

True but some people have bad habbits like asking others for proof of xyz whereas they cannot substantiate anything they claim, so they accuse others of trying to attract attention and thinking the forum revolves around them just because they have bothered to show her ideas are unfounded.

There were Bhagats before Kabir Ji descended on this earth, so it would not be out of line for such a great Bhagat to recognise these Sant. mloco ji. Point being that the so called Sant Samaj who are meant to be made up of real Sant are not capable of recognising these CONVICTED perverted rapists and peadophiles. True Sant are meant to be able to recognise other Sant just as our Guru Ji recognised the Bhagats and their predecessor Guru Ji as Sant. These so called Sant do not have that ability so are they really Sant ?

True but our Guru Ji have referred to their predecessor Guru and Bhagats as Sant. No one else was accorded this prefix. Our Guru Ji have clearly defined who they consider as Sant. Today "sant" a two a penny in Punjab, everyother day some new Makhan rises as a sant. Must be a seriously blessed area or ripe for commercial exploitation. I think the latter is true. Dera culture is growing in Punjab, we have so called sant giving their dirty kachera water to blind followers, we have others charged and imprisoned on rape charges (these were sant samaj members, if only a sant can recognise another sant then how come these perverted rapist pretenders were admitted to the sant samaj ??, could it be that the "sant" in the samaj do not have the ability to recognise other sant so everything they claim to be is a falsehood). They tell people they are only interested in spreading Sikhi and not in maya but are ready to kill each other over the vast estates attached to dera.

They do not represent Punjabis full stop. But they do claim to be the mini parliament of the Sikhs etc. They like to take the golak money from Gurdwara in Haryana but fail to open any colleges etc for the good of the Sikhs in Haryana. In the last SGPC elections the majority of those elected for the SGPC in Haryana were people who want an independent Haryana Prabandakh Committee.

You show no evidence of having read Shabad Hazareh. You failed to provide any proof the last time that Baba Budha Ji was ever referred to as a Sant. You simply deviated away from the questions raised everytime as you had no answers. In the end 3HO (or whatever his name was) simply closed the thread as you could not answer any points and 3HO thought that what Bhai Kahn Singh wrote was above what Gurbani stated and what was written in Shabad Hazareh. >>Il read what I want, my post was directed towards Suman, why can you not realise the world or a forum doesnt revolve around you? I think you will find the forum does not revolve around you and your ill conceived interpretations of the word Sant. Also you do not have a monopoly over who can write in threads. It is a public forum if you want to leave remarks directed at Suman then use the private messaging facility.

So I take it you have read Shabad Hazareh and are still not convinced. Or is it a case of telling others to read Gurbani but not doing the same yourself ? >>how can they be talking about themselves when they are clearly referring to others, 1.Read Shabad Hazareh. 2.Do you seriously think they are referring to commercial stars with t-series recording contracts ? How can you compare these commercial baba with those bhagat whos bani is contained in our Guru Ji ?

Each year countless brides from India runnaway after getting their indefinite stay stamps (in the UK) so they can get their boyfriend over from Punjab. This is not an isolated case. I know of half a dozen local cases where this has happened (the local Punjabi population is not too large). One bride even ran away 2 days after her wedding (her illegal immigrant boyfriend picked her up). It is time these cases were also publicised and the brides exposed for their dirty deeds. I would like to see Ramoowalia discussing these cases. He just goes for selected cases to try and get himself some votes but his LBP is still a huge failure on the electoral front. I know of a few other cases where girls from Punjab have married PIO and then they have blackmailed these PIO into handing over large amounts of money with the threat of police action for made up charges knowing full well that people like Ramoowalia will back them up. A few PIO are curently in Punjab facing court action in such cases. There was one case last year where the family of a bride shot the bride (minor bullet graze) and blamed the grooms family. Several members of the grooms family were locked up and the brides family wanted large amounts of money to drop charges. In the end the police got to know the truth and the grooms family were released and the bride and co locked up.

You forgot to mention that it was the Akali idiots who pushed for Punjabi suba. They were so stupid that they had no idea as to which areas they wanted in this new Punjab, so they lost Punjabi speaking areas to Haryana. Good job as well. My family ended up in Haryana and each time we cross into southern Punjab it opens our eyes as to how good we have it in Haryana (Hissar). Southern Punjab is very much neglected. People claim about the state of roads being poor in Punjab over the last few years, well the southern areas have never ever had good roads. As soon as you cross the border it is like stepping back to some third world country. I would not like our area to go back to Punjab. Let Punjabis sort out southern Punjab rather than asking for more territory. Very few Punjabis living in Haryana care about being part of Punjab. The SGPC has ignored Sikhs in Punjabi speaking areas of Haryana. Do you think we now want to be part of Punjab ? NO.

I dont really want to know you ! As for principles your principles are great. Your last few posts have stated you will not respond. Mysteriously someone keeps posting in your name. :roll: Why will you not reply ? Is it because your are falling into a black hole and the truth is you do not have any sources or references for claims you make ? Come on where is your Baba Buddha Ji source. Come clean you have no source and please do not give me the I believe ((crap) as 3HO would write). Come on give your interpretation of Shabad Hazareh, OK do not even bother with a full interpretation all I ask is that you please tell me who Guru Arjun Dev Ji is referring to as Sant. Maybe my interpretation of this is wrong and you are right. Seeing as you claim to have read Shabad Hazareh it would be nice to have an answer. As for attacks, who was it who initiated the whole process by calling me thick ? Questioning you and requesting sources/references is not exactly an attack.

Please refrain from using language like "crap". You are meant to be an administrator not a 14 year old chav from Bicester. If street language is ok then can everyone use it ? Big woh/bale balle you use Bhai Kahn Singh's work as a reference. I use Shabad Hazareh written by Guru Arjun Dev Ji as a source. Lets see out the two should I rely on what Guru Ji wrote or on what Bhai Kahn Singh Ji wrote. I think I will stick to what Guru Ji has written and rely on his use of the word Sant. Good to see you hold Bhai Kahn Singh Ji above Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Go ahead lock the topic, do you think I seriously care if you lock the topic ? Nice attitude you have, happy with a debate until I ignore your feable/lame pro Sant rant in another thread. You disagree with an article so it is stupid ? :shock:

Now it is a case of what you believe whereas you need sources and references from me to back up the fact that bhangra type arm raising is not an accepted norm in the Durbar of our Guru Ji. :shock: How many times you said you are not going to discuss it further with me but then you post another reply. You are a person of great principles. Come on provide pucca sources and references. I hope you can take the time someday to read and understand Shabad Hazareh. It will teach you more than any dere wala "Sant" can teach you.

I thought you was going to prove with Gurbani that Sant can be used as a title by any one with a dera in Punjab. You just back up points made by me that the Sant title use in Sikhi started in the 20th century etc etc. I found the following point (or non point) amusing. Just further backs the point case against most of these "baba". >So what's a point? No Real Sant never say call me sant You forgot to add that most dere wale "Sant" take great pride in getting thousands of posters printed for fly posting on which they allow the use of every title under the sun to elevate their status. Ranjit Singh takes great pride in using the sant title on covers of VCD, CD etc etc. So are they Real Sant ? or fake money grabbing charletans who will do anything to sell their wares.

If actually bothered to read Shabad Hazareh then you would know who Guru Arjun Dev Ji used the word Sant for. It is obvious you have either not read the Shabad Hazareh or do not understand it. If you read your posts it is easy to spot who is twisted, full of anger, ignorant of Sikh norms and unaware of Shabad Hazareh.

Jaskurn, Upload the file somewhere for download, so everyone can see what was going on. I expect the pro sant nindya coetrie will be gunning for you now. If it is the same birthday video as the other one on the net (without sound) then Ranjit Singh claims it is a few years old and not a recent video. He is now probably more media/pr savvy now and would not allow such videos to made.

SatGuru N30, I will look at it in the morning.

Well done. I hope you understood who the term Sant was used for by Guru Arjun Dev Ji. It certainly was not used for a money grabbing youth with a dera in Patiala. Who has been preaching hatred ? Do you suffer form some sort of mental condition which causes you to mentally believe people are preaching hatred if their views differ from yours and they do not think doing bhangra type moves in the hazoori of Mahraj is acceptable. Next time you are in India take a trip to Metha Chowk (DD Taksal) and start doing your bhangra moves whilst giving the fateh salutation. The Singh there will soon put you right. You are the one who is obsessed with the taliban and calling people thick because they have different views to you. Go take your warped obsessions to some other forum. Maybe the Nirankhari forums or the Gobind Sadan forum. They love people with warped mindsets plus they have a human "Guru" who runs the show .

Har Naal Pyar, I respect your view, but when people just voice a view for the sake of it like black godess then I take issue with it. She has not read Shabad Hazareh yet makes statements linking me with having taliban type outlook on saints etc. I would not mind if she could back this view up. My views on Sant are based on Shabad Hazareh and history. History clearly shows that the Sant title only came into vogue during the 20th century. Now in Punjab there are more so called Sant, Baba etc than there are villages in Punjab.

No one apart from you is interested. My opinion may mean zilch but yours is even below that. At least I am able to form an opinion rather than making absurd statements without understanding what our Guru Ji wrote. So have you read Shabad Hazareh or are you scared as your delluded myths about Sant will be destroyed ?

No anger at all unlike you. You carry on doing your club version of the fateh salutation. Everytime you meet another GurSikh give them the feteh salutation with your hands in the air as if you are about to do bhangra. You could even get a special sensor prepared so everytime you lift your arms a toombi tune starts to play (should be ok as it does not say you can not do this in the rehat maryada). So have you read the Shabad Hazareh of Guru Arjun Dev Ji ? This is what I have read and understood to develop my "thick" views. I doubt you will read this as all you want to do is live in your "special" world where pigs fly and fairies live at the end of the garden. Seeing as you know so much about who is a mahapursh and the use of the Sant title (or pretend you do) then is it not possible to have past experience of watching bollywood films and clubbing ?

What type of Gurdwara do you go to where you raise your hands when saying fateh ?

Well does it say when in Josh you are NOT allowed to balance a can of Pepsi Max on your head whilst wearing a t shirt with a picture of a Haden mango on it or when in josh you can do cartwheels around the durbar hall. IN MY OPINION there are accepted norms and raising your hands/arms as ravers would do in a club is not one of them. Have you managed to watch a few videos of any Baba to see how the fateh salutation is done ? Get a few videos of Shaheed Baba Jarnail Singh Ji and see if he does any of these club moves you feel are ok in the Durbar of Guru Ji. Maybe you are confusing Sikhi with the dirty practices that occur in Nirankhari all night disco/hedonist type events. I suggest you study the Shabad Hazareh of Guru Arjun Dev Ji, to understand who the Sant title is used for in Sikhi.

Why should I know that the taliban are anti Sant ? What did the Taliban do that was anti Sant ? I tell you what next time they are doing Nishan Sahib di seva at the Gurdwara you stand next to the Panj Piare and raise your hands in the air when you do Fateh. When a person is in josh do they really raise their hands ? I have been to a few kirtan durbar and I have never seen people raising hands in the air. Is it a case of josh or doing what the guy on the stage is saying ? If the bloke on the stage said hop around on one leg and pretend you are an Ewok, would you do that ? Please give me names and sources that prove you should raise your hands in the air if you have josh ! Your attempts at linking josh with raising arms in the air are not very funny. Perhaps you are getting confused with that bollywood flick Josh and the dance numbers in that when they raise their hands in the air (there I go again, trying to be funny). As for names and sources I suggest you read the Rehat Maryada issued by the Akal Takht and if you have time whilst resting from raising your arms watch a few videos of any Baba giving discourse and see how they give the fateh salutation. As for who is thick and who is not I will leave that to the almighty. Unless you are one with the almighty and as such are qualified to make your remarks. If you still do not know in what context the word Saint is used in Gurbani then educate yourself. There are enough resources out there for you to further your knowledge. If Baba Deep Singh Ji was not accorded the Sant title I do not see what BABA Nand Singh Ji did to get it. No doubt you are full of gyan and one with the almighty so please let me know the answer to this. As for being funny, frankly I do not care what you think.....oh maybe I should as you are the perfect Sikh and so knowledgeable about Gurbani.

No I was 100% serious. Breathing is a necessity but asking people to raise their hands in the air is not. Are you trying to be funny or can you really not differentiate between the actions you have stated ? In Guru Ji's durbar what is the need for such gimmick behaviour. We are taught to give the fateh saluation with our hands folded together not raising them in the air. There is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, would you let someone breakdance on stage or do the Salsa in the langar hall ? Asking people to raise their hands in the air is importing club type behaviour into a Gurdwara. Whats there to be jealous about ? Seeing as our Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Sant then how could I be anti Sant ? I did not know the taliban were anti Sant. You learn something new everyday.

Black godess wrote "FYI no one raises their hands up in their air" This is incorrect and that is what I pointed out. Sound like a nice party type atmosphere. Raising your hands in the air is something you would expect at a DJ to encourage amongst clubbers. Ah well if you enjoyed it then I suppose it is all good and well. The next progressive step is to start mexican waves at his programs.