ringdingding

At the moment mandirs are emptying out, churches are as well, we are not so bad considering our population however mosques are getting filled up perhaps the media doing all these terrorist stories however some people are now doubting islam but they do not say it as they would get introuble beaten killed etc. Sikhi is a path of love not fear and scaring people into religion- however gurdwaras scare people and result to evil things. Such as khalistani people starting fights, commitee, so alot comes down to our generation to do things for our own kids and for ourselves. Also in the past going gurdwara was a past time aswell now we have internet tv phones media clubs bhangra industry and so forth. Alot of people after seeing money have become ungreatful and for one it maybe worthwhile spending time in India with people who actually need help and spreading sikhi to remote region of India where hinduism is existent to bring kirpa there langar, sewa and simran. We have to resurrect sikhi in punjab as well, punjab has come into terrible condition.

is there a lack of langar in punjab??

Why didn't they do what everyone seems to do and open up two 'rival' Gurdwaras?

must be a lack of kirpa?

make chips and tarkhe vale beans / pizza and the kids will come flocking in (and some over 18s like me)

Western Gurdwaras are not budging on the language gap between punjabi and english= really really need sikhitothemax.com projectors in all of them and loads of free leaflets describing all of sikhi, also we need libraries in every gurdwara for gianis to read for there kathas and if possible libraries for sangat to use with many many books- the 5 takhts are influenced to much by the government so there is lack of financial investment into sikhi that would be needed compared to any other organised world religion. As well as giving free english gutka like harbans doabia ones.

you make a start then, if it is good others may follow your lead

can you define nindia chugli gossip a bit please?

No need for preachers. Who Guru Sahib wants as his shagird, Guru Sahib calls to him. Those people who have left, that's maharaj da hukam, I very much doubt they were actual sikhs in the first place anyway.

Let us take Guru Nanak Dev Ji as an example:

-did he remain silent in his life - keeping his knowledge to himself?

-or did he travel 1000s of miles dispensing his wisdom to people of all different religions, different cultures and different countries? (bit like some christian missionaries do)

we all know the answer: Guru Sahib did not sit at home waiting for for his shagird to mystically appear at his house. In fact, he travelled 1000s of miles by foot to give people the opportunity to gain wisdom from him!

Should we today keep secret these same beautiful teachings ?

. We need to be in the top 3 in the Genocide category by midnight 31st December 2008 to make it into the second round.

__________________

If only someone had found out a bit earlier?

The term Hindustan used in Guru Nanak's bani does not refer to the Indian subcontinent as we know it or even the Indian state. Hindustan at that time meant the empire of the Lodhis which at that time consisted of the strip of land running across northern India from Bengal to Punjab. It probably consisted of at it's maximum extent about 15-20% of the present Indian subcontinent.

Also the concept of the nation state was unknown so it is not wise to ascribe concepts such as these to that time.

As for Khalistan, the present Indian state is a British creation and the name itself is taken by the British from the Greek Indica. Apart from a spell under when it formed parts of an Empire, India has never been united country.

Some important concepts to be noted here in any serious research.

when you understand this then you will realise that its not straight forward enough to simply ask:

"Does anyone know what Indian was called back in the days?"

nice one!

are other regions like midlands doing similar events?

have the latter 5 Gurus (6th -10th) got Sahib because of their temporal power, which was stressed by Guru Har Gobind Sahib with miri piri?

all you lot need to chill, this maryada has been going on for three hundred years, from the time sri satguru gobind singh ji sache patshah, why are you getting your kachere in a twist?

when a load of mahapursh went to sri sachkhand sahib to get maryadas for their samprayadas why wasnt the issue raised then if it was soo wrong.

Anyone who wishes to impose strict vegetarian code on all sikhs, please answer this point first.

Would the mahapursh have ignored this going on in the Gurdwara complex if they thought it was totally wrong?

were they too scared to say anything?

or were they not real mahapursh?

where is the love for god when in fact all that you are doing is playing tunes that are entertaining and will ensure you get some moshing?

do you have such a judgemental atittude towards all people who play 'entertaining' tunes?

It is a big thing to claim someone has no love for God.

Do you think it is impossible for an individual to have love for God while playing a tune that someone else may perceive to be entertaining?

. . . or is it a judgemental bias you reserve only for akj ?

that which is done in love requires no pothi.. sadly .. nowadays the self inflicted saraf of playing cool loveless tunes has effected more then just the akj.. !!!

lol do all my love posts sound like im some kinda hippy !

loveless tunes? do you mean they have no love while using these tunes.

Is there an exact science to measuring how much 'love' there is in a tune? or would you say it's a personal experience?

. . . and what a joke us diaspora , especially British Sikhs are for not managing to protest strongly enough to stop this, if he is being setup. Were there any coordinated efforts of lobbying and protests?

What did Gurdwaras do ?

I dont know this guy, or if he's genuine, or what happened, but I do know that this story is perfectly plausible, the way things are in India and it could happen in the future again - if there is a brave soul who is willing to stand up for us, that is:

By not doing anything, we not only allow a justice seeker of ours to get tortured and improsoned, but we will also end up with a situation where, on seeing that there is so much risk in defending sikhs and that none of your sikh brothers will care about you anyway if you end up being setup, no sikh will then ever bother to stand up for the justice of others.

If all our gurdwaray had been told to give just 15 minutes on a Sunday morning programme and make their sangats aware and guide them on how to act, over 100,000 sikhs could have very quickly been made aware and involved in some action. We've got the base and network ie. Gurdwaray and Sunday sangats. We could have a powerful effect if the will, organisation and coordination was there.

Although a lot is done in some, I still think we greatly under-use the potential that our Great Gurdwara system could offer us.

Yes nearly all historic records are biased. Agreed, god knows the exact truth of what happened 2000 years ago, I dont, I wasnt there.

Anyway, what do you think about my point that our organisations are infiltrated by brahmin agents intent on bringing about confusion in the Panth?

Its sad that Sikhs have degenerated this low that Sikhs from either side of the debate are resorting to such low tactics. One thing is certain and also a little strange, and that is that BOTH SIDES accuse the other of being a part of RSS (lol!), when the truth is both sides probably nothing to even do with RSS. But seeing as how RSS is the new houwaa i.e. Boogyman of the once mighty and brave Sikhs, we now always try to call someone RSS just to destroy their credibility even if it isn't even the truth.

It must be remembered that it is claimed by historians that Brahmins destroyed Buddhism (which was a 'super power' at that time) by infiltrating it and causing differences of opinion, creating factions and different sects, which would then go on to quarell with each other, helping to destroy the relgion from within. (mughals were also instigated by the brahmins to fight them - in the same way as they were instigated to finish off the sikhs)

see http://abheek-athavale.sulekha.com/blog/po...tions-part2.htm

It seems that this is probably true, as I can see they are doing EXACTLY the same thing to sikhi - Our religion is infiltrated (at the top) in nearly every organisation/jatha/samprada - even the Akal Takht, where Jathedars can be sacked and replaced at the request of non-sikh politicians . Different sikh groups can be seen vehemently fighting each other due to some particular difference of opinion which they seem to hold as so important, that its as though they fanatically worship it - forgetting everything else!

to sum it up, it can make perfect sense why 2 groups can both accuse each other of being part of 'RSS', if they have indeed both been infiltrated by 'RSS' with the aim of installing slightly differing ideologues to confuse the followers into conflict.

Divide and Rule

detailed but easily understandable explanation of how the world's money system works and how it is literally impossible for everyone to be debt free:

"I want the earth, plus 5%"

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/hannigan092099.html

good for such a short summary.

It is sad to see (relatively) innocent ones die when it is usually unscathed sly individuals in the background instigating gullible mob-like hotheads to do this dirty work.

Regarding the ethnic cleansing issue : If we look at the percentage of population belonging to various religions in each country, it stands out that nearly every muslim majority country is like 99% or 100% muslim. Why?

thats wicked, dude pulled out some sick moves lol

check this out then:

just saw this goree singhnee on youtube today- she's better than any Punjaban I've seen . . .

finally some payback for the atrocities of delhi

eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth

innocent, sikhs were massacred by delhi

1. sikhs were not massacred by 'delhi' - they were massacred by Government organised 'mobs'

2 . I'm pretty sure that the innocent people who died in these bomb attacks had nothing to do with the sikh massacres in 1984 - in the same way that the innocent sikhs of delhi didn't deserve 'pay back' for something that was nothing to do with them i.e. Indra Gandhi's murder

3. Your foolish comments may be harmful for other sikhs ! - as we have already seen above: certain people would have the ability to take offence from your comments and take out their resultant anger on other innocents from your community who had nothing to do with your views.

This is the "Panjab" for you. People are given "saropey" willy nilly, like sweets, not surprised to hear this. I was expecting it.

How does one become a "Shaheed". There must be something a individual must do in order to be given the "Shaheed".

he did a lot for the government and in the end even made the ultimate sacrifice of giving shaheedi while fighting their cause .

Poola had full government and police support. Besides having police support, he had atleast 40 fully armed men with him at all times.

But still considering that he lived in Punjab, where millions of Sikhs live he still survived. During Puraatan times, one or two Sikhs were enough to kill men more dangerous than Poolah. Sikhs of today no longer have the kind of mindset they once had.

Even most of our Panthic leaders who did so much against Sacha Souda, but even they were unable lift a finger against Poola. I doubt that Poolah and his gang would have been able to stop 5 die hard fully armed Singhs if they ever decided to punish Poolah. But out of a population of 25 million Sikhs we could not produce even 5 such Singhs who would have taken it upon themselves to punish Poolah. Unfortunately Sikhs are not made of the same metal they once were. We are no longer fearless as our ancestors were.

Many sikhs still have a great - fearless mindset. Perhaps more importantly sikhs didnt advance technologically - I notice they are still over-obsessed with the weapons of 400 years ago . In this day and age, its quite hard to physically fight an enemy without having a country / state support (without which it is almost impossible to buy advanced weapons of choice).

ringdingding perhaps you could be kind enough to give everyone information about the licenses. . Dont forget to mention the months that Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari spent in jail for defying court orders regarding the carrying of weapons, and of course the contemporary accounts given by Giani Kirpal Singh which Im sure you have read. Sant Ginai Gurbachan Singh Bhinderanwale got permission from Baba Chet Singh to give out licenses - wh

Sorry I'm not an expert on these licences that nihangs feel the need to get in order to carry axes and spears etc.

. . . and I haven't got a clue about the other stuff you've written about (seriously)

I was simply trying to get across the point that (in my opinion) the western sikh youth (esp) seem not to be in touch with reality when it comes to how powerful (or not) Nihangs actually are. Sadly, Bahadur's post seems closer to reality as it is right now :

If Nihangs were a real threat to anyone they would have been whiped out ages ago. Proof of it is the license which goes back to an agreement between Budha Dal and the British authoriries. So much for Khalsa Raj and the conquest described in Karni Namah.

Raj Karega Khalsa...if God wills it (which is doubtful) and if the British and GOI let it happen...

The idea of "God's Army" having to be registered with a British and GOI license says it all...

Getting a free ride on trains and buses and having a license to carry spears should not be such a major source of pride IMHO - were talking about our Khalsa army here!

Would Guru Gobind Singh be proud of Buddha Dal's capabilities today compared to other armies?

. . . or am I missing the point ?

It mainly benefits Brahmins for the Dalits to split themselves into many groups affiliated to different Deras, and then to create friction between them and mainstream Sikhs is the icing on the cake.

(see website for full article)

http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/august200...

...

Principal enemy

That Sikhism itself has suffered steady deterioration became clear in the long DV Debate on "Slow death of Sikhism".(DV Edit Nov.1, 1998: "Slow death of a brave community: BSO using internal enemies to destroy Sikh identity").

The Ballan saints are well aware of this and are proceeding carefully. They want to maintain close and cordial relationship with Jat Sikhs, the SGPC and the Sikh religious authorities.

The Brahminical forces have been trying to sabotage the revolutionary Sikhism both from inside and outside. Nobody can forget the bloodbath which the Brahminical forces engineered in 1984 in the name of "Blue Star Operation". Brahminism never tolerates any challenge to its authority. It goes on instigating Dalits against Sikhs and vice-versa. This is a centuries-old game.

But those of us who have identified Brahminism as our principal enemy cannot support Dalit criticism of Sikhs as it will only help Brahminism.

To win over such forces operating on both sides of the divide, it was decided at the recent Shimla Dalit Voice workshop to call a meeting of honest Sikh and Dalit intellectuals at Chandigarh to resolve the differences. In this we will seek the support of Jat Sikh intellectuals, Ballan saints, Dalit intellectuals and all those interested in saving Sikhism from the jaws of Brahminism

check out the pictures (WARNING - he's quite cooked)

http://panthic.org/articles/2008/08/28/nih...e-central-jail/

Amritsar Sahib (KP) – Ajit Phoola, the notorious pseudo-Nihang, who is responsible for number of rapes and other crimes, was set on fire by two other prisoners inside the Central Jail here. Navtej Singh and Harchand Singh of Amritsar Sahib and Gurdaspur district respectively have been named responsible for the incident.

According to local police officials, the incident took place after Phoola had an argument with both Navtej Singh and Harchand Singh. The row became violent when Phoola was set on fire. As a consequence he suffered over seventy percent burns and was immediately admitted to the local Civil hospital where he is receiving treatment.

No information is yet available on how the actual misshapen came to be and what kind of materials were used inside the jail. Phoola’s role in several anti-Panthic operations have been apparent for long but support of Centre Government has always resuscitated him from backlash of the Sikh Community.