BAZ

"If truth be the knife and Truth its steel, then its make is of infinite glory. And if it is sharpened on the wheatstone of the divine word . And kept safe in the sheath of the Divine Virture. Then if the Sheikh is 'killed' with this knife, all his blood of Greed will be spilt. And in this way he will become Halal (Pure) and will meet the Lord God. And thus, will witness the bliss of God's Vision at his gate." (Var Raamkalee mehlaa 1, panna 956) I dont think this has anything to do with meat at all. Looks to me like the process of slaughtering the animal is used symbolically to illustrate a deeper message that is unrelated. By the way can someone provide me an answer to that question I had about Guru Gobind Singh Ji's hunting hawk? If eating meat is forbidden then what was he doing with a hawk whos purpose is to hunt?

What will happen to those who eat meat obtained by cutting the throats of animals? (Bhai Gurdas Ji, var 37, pauri 21) Just a question.. does this refer to all meat eaters or specifically to muslims who cut the throat of the animal in order to make it halaal?

I have a question... if eating meat is forbidden in Sikhism then what was Guru Gobind Singh Ji doing with a hawk? Every picture you see of him shows him with a hawk in hand. Hawks are used for hunting and I am sure he didnt just keep it for decoration. If eating meat is wrong then how do you explain GuruGobid Singh Ji's hunting hawk? If it is ok for the Guru to do this then should it not also be ok for his followers to do this?

The one of Deepak Singh really pulls at the heart. Poor kid. May God bless him.

Great post Samosa Singh

These are a good read... they basically wrote a lot of what I think also: http://www.islamfortoday.com/malik01.htm http://www.islamfortoday.com/frustrations.htm

Koi gal nai.. just watch him bark now. Funny how these particular muslims who condemn everyone else to hell wonder why people dont see the beauty of Islam. lol

http://pro.corbis.com/default.aspx Type in "Sikh" in the search field and make sure you have checked royalty free and the rights managed boxes. I didnt paste them here incase of copyright issues but if you sign up with corbis (Its free) you can save the "rights managed" images without the watermark to you computer at 640x480 pixel size. Some really good old photos in here and some good ones from the Holla Maholla festival.

Here you can see the difference between a muslim with an extremist mentality (Cunard) and one who does not think that way. The muslim community is divided this way between extremists and those who see God as an understanding and mercyful Creator. "Remember now, in the Koran, non believers who have religions other than the abrahamic faiths burn in thr hell fires "... this is Cunard's interpretation. Apparently Cunard fails to understand the Quran and what it stands for and what it states... this is my opinion and I am sure Cunard probably thinks that muslims who think they way I do are misguided and not following the Quran when infact we look to it to guide us also. 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' - can be taken at a spiritual level also. Moinudeen Chishti was a muslim who was extremely well respected by his people but Osama bin Laden is also a muslim who is well respected by his people. Both are muslims and both look to the Quran but one has the Light of God shining from his heart and the other the blackness of his own ego. The rest of us fall somewhere between the 2. Many muslims are quick to send everyone to hell because that justifies their belief in their own religion. They have this view that "If we are right then you must be wrong". Cunard says, "your point proves nothing.....show me where in the Koran it says sikhs will not burn in the hell fires ".. well I say to Cunard show me in the Quran where it says Sikhs will burn in Hell. He will pick a verse and interpret it to try and prove his point and I can take a verse and prove my point. It is a pointless argument though because neither side will budge. I believe I am right and will stick to my belief and he will stick to his. Only God can open someones heart. Quranic quotes: 002.062 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. 002.113 And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true), and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true); yet both are readers of the Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ. (I think muslims should apply this to themselves and reflect on it a little) 022.017 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things. (remember.. ALLAH WILL JUDGE BETWEEN THEM not Cunard or others like him )

DHANBABANANAK, I can speak a little about this from a muslim/sufi point of view but I am sure there are similarities. There are 2 things that will try and get you offtrack 1) The Devil (Shaitaan) and 2) Ones own ego. The Devil is very much a reality in Islam and is considered to be a living being (A Jinn). Out of ego, anger and spite he promised to try and lead humanity astray. He made this promise to God when he was thrown out of heaven for not obeying God's command to bow down to man (because God created man with the ability to become higher in rank and nearer to God than even the angels). One of the names of the Devil is "The Whisperer".. who whispers into the hearts and minds of mankind. The other thing that will lead one astray is the ego (nafs). The ego can be compared to a wild horse which needs to be tamed. As long as it is wild it is in control but once you have it in control it will carry you on the path. Sometimes the devil whispers to the ego. The spiritual fight is within and without but even in winning the fight one can lose when "I did it!" or "I won over my ego/devil" comes. Success is by the grace of God only. Without the grace of God we would lose everytime. Why do these things try to get us off track? Because there would be no point for us to be on this Earth if it was that easy. This world is a testing ground. The further you travel on the path the more difficult the tests will get. A grade 12 student will not get tested like a grade 9 student and a university student will not get tested like a highschool student.

Dhanbabananak, its a great thing that you had this experience. Excitement is a natural thing after something new and amazing like this happens. Always be weary of the ego though especially at the stage when you start having experiences like this. It will try and sneak its way in somehow and can be very difficult to detect. This is just a little bit of advice to let you know what to watch out for because I have seen a few times what happens at this stage. The further you progress along the spiritual path the more cunning the ego will get.. it has to keep up with your progress. It will try twice as hard to get you off track because now it knows you are onto something good.

I have had one experience a few years ago. I was doing zikr of "La Illaha IlAllah" with 2 others who were on the sufi path. That day things seemed to have gotten quite "intense" and I felt consumed by the zikr. The only way I can describe what happened was that I felt my body became empty of myself and I ceased to exist in my body except at a point at my forhead. It was as if my whole soul or being was drawn from my body and and collected at a concentrated form at the point of the third eye. All feeling was gone from the rest of my body. I told the other 2 about this experience and they looked at each other and smiled and then one said "Now imagine the feeling once you take off from this point". Anyway, I believe that an undeserving person was given a little taste of what is possible. I wasnt looking for any kind of experience that day... I remember that all I had in mind was to remember God by repeating this phrase and try and connect to Him out of love. With this said I dont think people should go looking for mystical experiences because they can become the goal. I believe that leading a good life and being good to God's creation on this earth is more important than these experiences. If you get a spiritual experience out of love then that is a blessing but not something to get fixated upon. Spiritual/mystical experiences can also be a test I believe. In some people these experiences have inflated their egos and made them go downhill from there. I know sufi masters used to tell novices to share their spiritual experience only with their master because this would prevent the ego from getting fired up.

Mehtab Singh Ji Id rather have some kraa with lots of kay in it

There were small moments of silence at one point and in this silence you could feel the presence of God and His blessings. One could get drunk on this silence. Hopefully we can all hang out together when I come down again in june. To the Timmy Waley Babay dha Dera first then Nanaksar after

Its shocking and sad to see people who claim to know more about their faith than the founders of their faith. Hate, Pride and Ego blind the "followers" of all faiths in understanding the universal Truth.

At 3am on Saturday night/Sunday morning a Sikh, a Muslim and a Nirankari sat at Nanaksar Gurdwara in Brampton next to each other. These 3 good friends had nothing else in mind other than to be there as friends and to seek the blessings of God and to put their attention on Him. All 3 of them have their faults as human beings. All 3 of them have different paths that they are on. It is an amazing feeling to look to you left and right and so your friend of another faith on a different yet same path. This friend will be there for you in your search for the Truth. This friend will be there for you when you stumble on your path. This is the good company we are told to keep. I felt blessed to be sitting there in the middle between a Sikh and a Nirankari.

Bobbyboy what you seem to believe about Islam is not true. I can accept the fact that you would think that Guru Nanak was greater than Prophet Muhammad. If you believe that then fine.. that is your belief and you are entitled to it. "There is no such thing as an angry God in Sikhism. Anger is a human emotion." Fine then maybe anger is not something God is capable of in Sikhism but in Islam God is capable of anger and of love. Maybe other Sikhs would disagree with you on this.. I dont know. "It is easy to rationalise such quotes by claiming the context excuse. Surely Allah would have made sure that he refered to 'certain' Jews and Christians and not just refer to Jews and Christians? " There is no such "context excuse". It isnt an excuse it is common sense to look at context when it comes to interpreting verses. Context must be looked at because each verse of the Quran was revealed under certain circumstances. Also the Quran needs to be looked at as a whole instead of taking one line from it and taking that line out of context to bash the religion. "Yes but islam believes that all the follwoers of the 124,000 prophets corrupted their message and tht is why Mohammed had to come and give is message. This isn't the same as all religions can lead to God. " Yes Islam does believe that people did corrupt the message over time. I would go as far as to say that their are people who are corrupting the message of Sikhism today and the message of Islam today also. You say that "This isn't the same as all religions can lead to God"... well this wasnt even being discussed but as you have brought it up lets talk about it. If all religions lead to God (meaning that all practices in a particular religion were acceptable) then Guru Nanak would not have spoken out against certain practices and Prophet Muhammad would not have spoken out against certain practices. "Islam on the other hand offers a set of guidelines and if you follow them then hey presto your entitles to a seat in heaven. This is also the difference between semitic and indic religions. " Rubbish! Islam sets out guidlines but a seat in heaven is only there for a believer by the grace and mercy of God. You just said yourself that "The purpose of the Guru Granth sahib is to act as a guide"... that is what the Quran is.. it is a guide. "Non-Muslims are not allowed in Mecca and there is a ban on any non-Muslim worship in the whole of saudi arabia. These laws were enacted because Mohammed has said that there would be no religion other than Islam in Arabia. " There is a ban on any non muslims worshipping their way in Arabia because of the extremist wahabi control over religion in Saudi Arabia. You are judging Islam and all muslims by the actions of the extremists... would you want your religion to be judged because of the extremists in it? It is true that only muslims are allowed into mecca and there are reasons for that but according to Islamic teachings and Islamic spirit non-muslims are allowed into any other mosque in the world. Now my Islamic interpretation and Islamic spirit will be quite different to that of an extremist and/or a wahabbi... the same way that one Sikhs view of Sikhi will be very different to that of another Sikh. "If a Muslim can get so easily distracted by a women fully clothed in a Jilbab bending down then perhaps he should consider whether he really has any self control over his senses. All other religions it seems apart from Islam teach their followers SELF RESTRAINT. " This is just a cheap bash against Islam. If you had any desire to actually learn the truth about the matter you would understand that Islam is all about self restraint but it is also about minimizing the external influences of temptation. Shariah guidlines are there to make worship and remembrance of God easier for followers without distractions or the wandering of the mind. Now we come to the controversial subject of the veil. Read this because what i type is going to be basically the same anyway: http://www.islamfortoday.com/niqaab.htm "The difference being that Sikhism teaches that fasting and pilgrimages are in themselves empty rituals and devoid of any merit. " .. well as a muslim I obviously dont believe that and unless you have fasted yourself with the right intention you will have no idea of what im talking about. "Not drinking blood of an animal is nothing to do with the 'carrying impurities'".. umm yes it does. ---------------------------------- Ofcourse their will be disagreements on certain things between muslims and Sikhs regarding matters of faith and spirituality. The path of Sikhism has its own guidlines as does the path of Islam and we wont see eye to eye on certain things. What I have an issue with is someone blasting anothers religion without proper knowledge. What I have a problem with is someone criticising someone elses religion to make their own look superior. I have the same conflict with muslims who do this to make Islam look superior to other beliefs. If you have issues with a certain thing in a religion the at least learn about it with an open mind before you attack it and when you do attack it then look at your intention. I believe that if differences in opinion are conducted respectfully we can just agree to disagree on certain things. All Sikhs cant agree on the same things and neither can all muslims.

I think there are only minor differences such as shias leaving their arms by their sides instead of folding them infront of their chest and they place their head on a stone when then put their mattha on the ground while Sunnis do not.

Black Goddess this is the quote from the Quran: -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Striking their feet on purpose in order to attract men by the sounds of their anklettes is what is talked about near the end of this verse. Actions are judged on the intention. I read this verse as saying that a woman should not flaunt herself to men to make them sexually attracted to her. This verse says that she should not display her beauty and ornaments in order to seek attention from men but it does not say that ornaments are forbidden to her either... "they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof". When a man sees a woman dressed in very revealing and tight clothes that purposly show off the curves of her body then he will get sexual thoughts in his head. I have seen hijabi women dressed modestly with a little makeup on and they looked beautiful in a nice pure way. This type of beauty doesnt bring sexual thoughts to mind.

Black Goddess it depends whos Islam you are talking about. Just as there is a wide range of opinion on this board on sikhism there is the same range of opinion in the muslim community. Some muslims believe that a woman needs to be covered in a veil while many dont believe in that. The Quran says that believing men and women must lower their gaze, and dress modestly. Now we can also get into hadiths (sayings of the Prophet passed down through a chain of narrators) but many hadith are surrounded by the same controversy as rehets as they are also open to interpretation. I personally think that a woman with less makeup on is more attractive and more beautiful than a woman who has it caked onto her face. There is nothing wrong with making oneself look good. This doesnt have anything to do with insecurities.. we all like to look good. Infact I would say Islam encourages it. But it also says that we shouldnt take things to an extreme. Muslim women at the time of the prophet wore surma and it wasnt discouraged.

"Baz, so a person becomes a ‘Wahabi’ if one attempts to break the shackles of social slavery on women that the male dominated society has imposed on them? Wow!" ... Wow indeed! All that just because of a little bit of lipstick and foundation eh? lol Singh47 ... Wahabbis tend to blow things waaaaay out of proportion and make the smallest thing seem like a grave sin. For God's sake its only a bit of lipstick to make a women look and feel pretty. Some women have natural beauty and some dont. Some want to make themselves look better to feel a little better about themselves. All this nonsense about social slavery etc... give me a break. Show me a direct quote from Bani that says makeup is forbidden... not a quote which can be interpreted into an extreme view. If there is no direct and explicit quote then this subject is open to interpretation. "In the end of the day, Gursikhs don’t really give a damn of what some people think of them. All they care is what their Guru thinks of them, because that is the only opinion that matters." ... well I suppose Gursikhs who have the opposite view to yours on this subject can also say the same thing.

OMG the more I look at the sikh community the more parallels I see with my muslim community. Tapoban = Wahabbi? Whats all this about women looking like clowns with makeup on? Wearing earings and necklaces is something prostitutes used to do!?!?! I guess women should stop wearing shoes too because I have seen prozies wearing those aswell. Oh yeah and get rid of bangles too. Ok I gotta admit that some women fresh of the boat dont know how to wear make up but a little trip to the MAC counter will fix that lol. On a serious note can anyone give exact quotes from Bani that says makeup is forbidden to women?

what if you were to die tommorow? - What would u do ?? Cry for my family’s loss. Cry for my daughter who will grow up without her father. Have my closest friends and family with me in a room praying with me in silence. - What will be your last duties? I would write a long letter to my daughter giving her advice and telling her how much I love her so she can read it and understand it when she is older. - Any last wishes? I would wish that any seeds of goodness that I have planted in this life with grow tenfold to cover my sins and weaknesses and shortcomings. - Would u be able to prepare yourself for life after death? This life is meant to prepare us for life after death but are we prepared? Prayer and good deeds and good words is all I can do to prepare myself as much as possible and the rest is in God’s hands. - Would u be prepared to say last good bye ? I would but only to those closest to me. I wouldn’t want everyone phoning me and crying. If Im going to die then there are more important things for me to concentrate on than being distracted by everyone’s sadness. - What will be your last thoughts when you die? “Oh God forgive me for my sins and shortcomings. Give my daughter all my strengths plus more and none of my weaknesses. Let her be a reflection of your Light in this world. My soul is in Your hands so I ask You to keep me close to You. You told me that Your Mercy is greater than your wrath so grant me mercy. Give my daughter the strength to stay on the Path and guide others to it. Give her strength to pass Your tests. If she fails a test give her hope to get up and keep walking on the Path. Have her love You with all her heart the way I have not.†- And Finally, what will be your LAST MESSAGE to this WORLD?? “Be good to each other. Don’t hurt one another. Want for your neighbour what you want for yourself. Build bridges wherever possible. Your Creator is Most Gracious and Most Merciful so be a reflection of that. Forgive each other if you want your Lord to forgive you. Give to each other if you want your Lord to give to you. Remember God always because when you forget to remember Him you are in darkness and darkness brings the whisperings of the Devil and your ego.â€

No problem Pheena Ji

Ju belcum Harry Puther