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1) it is suraj prakash....I believe that paat must have been recited in the same way back when the paati's used to take hukamnama in raag.... the chanting is phenomenal....I'll get back to you on the other 2

Tsingh, thank you very much brother for writing back. I have been busy like crazy with married life, and I was reading "me judice" by sardar kapur singh, and I thought why not put this out there, anything refuting or supporting is positive because it will eliminate any 'fallacies' that people will have conjured up....I hope life is fruitful and treating you well waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

Evil (this has been condensed and taken from sardar kapur singh's me judice...essentials of sikhism). Existence of evil is the main reasons for the existence of religion. Main problem in assessing: did god create evil? Is evil due to misuse of the gift of free will? Hindu thought: since the world itself is unreal, the existence of evil in it is not of greater concern to the individual than the world itself. Hence, the recourse would be to attain mukti by renouncing the world. Sikh thought: does not accept a dichotomy between matter and spirit, hence it can not ignore the problem of evil. It does not accept the principle of illusion as an independent identity. “Sikhism asserts that there is no such thing as the principle of evil, as some theologies postulate, although there are things in this world which are evil. This anti-thesis of evil and good, according to Sikhism, is a necessary characteristic of the process of involution which the spirit is undergoing in the process of creation of the world. Evil and good appear at one stage of this involution-cum-evolution and they disappear when the process of evolution culminates into the unitive experience of god, just as the white ray of light splits into its spectrum while passing through a prism, and again gathers these multichromatic hues into its all absorbing whiteness, when it becomes itself again. This explanation and statement of the doctrine of evil is laid down almost in as many words in the “Sukhmani†of the fifth nanak, “When a complete perspective is granted to man by the Grace of god, all evil is seen to melt into its primal sources, which is all goodâ€.

This next piece defines maya in a sikh context… Maya has no positive existence in sikh thought….similar to ignorance. Just like ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Maya is a way of saying “ the individual consciousness perceives the reality on in the forms of partial knowledgeâ€. “what is there positive to which we can give the name of maya? What positive activity is this maya capable of? The human souls is the subject to pleasure and pain in its very nature as long as it operates on the individuated plan of conciousnessâ€. http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...amp;p=0&k=0 This re-interpretation of the concept of maya, the guru’s bring forth a reality, a sense of urgency and an objectivity to the whole frame of mind, which is necessary for all the all-out effort to speed up the evolutionary process through the human will, and this is the core of the precepts of Sikhism, as a way of life.

The following article will be kept as short as possible, and it gives neat info about Sikhi. Influence of sikhi on the greater “Indian†psyche. Swami Vivekananda 1. represented Hinduism at the Parliament of Religions held in Chicago in 1893 . 2. regarded as the patriot saint of modern India and an inspirer of her dormant national consciousness, To the Hindus he preached the ideal of a strength-giving and man-making religion 3. His life and teachings are of inestimable value to the West for an understanding of the mind of Asia. William James, the Harvard philosopher, called the Swami the "paragon of Vedantists." Max Muller and Paul Deussen, the famous Orientalists of the nineteenth century, held him in genuine respect and affection Affect of sikhi: Udasi baba, totapuri, told Ramakrishna parmahansa the secret of waheguru mantar to help him through spiritual obstacles. Ramakrishna parmahansa was the guru of swami Vivekananda and Vivekananda used to recite “Waheguru†as his mantar. Shivaji maratha 1. Chhatrapati Shivaji was the maker of the Maratha empire 2. the same people who kept foreigners out and a real threat to the british Affect of sikhi: Ram Das Samrath, the spiritual teacher of shivaji maratha directly indebted to guru hargobind sahib for the following teaching in kashmir, in 1634: “ascetic within, secular withoutâ€â€¦â€¦the maratha saint exclaimed “This appeals to my mindâ€â€¦.. (prior to this, the maratha saint had said to guru hargobind sahib, “What type of saint are you, and how can a person like you be sitting on guru nanak’s throneâ€!?! Vrijanand 1. inspirer and founder of the arya samaj, high caste Brahmin, native of kartarpur Punjab. Affect of sikhi: imbibed the sikh declaration “ unless mankind pays heed to that which is the true essence of all Vedas, namely the doctrine of the names, they shall remain confused and misdirectedâ€.

Introduction As a tribute to Guru Nanak, I am now taking excerpts from an unconventional, but ‘possibly’ sound, interpretation of jap-ji sahib. Background We as Sikhs have a few interpretations of gurbani. The advantage we have is historical, and academic proof that gurbani is 100% accurate to what the guru’s said. Our basic differences come in interpretation of gurbani which is based on 1)understanding language, 2)understanding interpretation(our own way of understanding) 3)pre-conceived ideological standpoints (meat vs. no meat, transmigration vs. a single moment of judgement, need for an intermediary vs. direct relationship with god….btw, this is what I believe inhibits inter-religious harmony)… Fact: people of differing backgrounds who were authorities on their religion/sect/belief could reconcile the truth of gurbani and the guru’s teachings with others who had a differing outlook on life. My point: There is some common truth or truthful elements that the guru’s exemplified. This post Purpose: show a scientific view of japji sahib . Source: A theo-cosmo evolutionary concept of japji sahib By GS BACHAN. I will be keeping this AS SIMPLE AS I CAN. Background: guru nanak was around in the age of renaissance, and being a member of the world society (being someone who traveled 27 years)…his works should also be looked at as a scientist, as well as a saint, mystic, revolutionary, musician. The era between the 13-16th century was more composite. Therefore the findings crossed many disciplines. Nowadays, scholarship is very narrow and less interdependent. Mool Mantar: Ik= Unique contribution of guru nanak! Prior mystics attest to the celestial sound but do not explicitly name it as a part of the ‘one’. oangkar= akin to ‘oam’/ ‘kun’/ ‘logos’. Soviet space scientists have found evidence of celestial sounds through a space probe called ‘Vega’. Ik oangkar= This is the one word theory explains how the expanse came from the “one†(god/allah/waheguru)as a process. Satnaam- affidavit of the “one word theoryâ€. Understood as the identity of being and cognition Karta purakh = creative/functional entity. Universe came into existence when god became creative/functional Nir-bhau= without-attraction. Ikoangkar (as a process) came into existence when there was no mutual attraction of particles leading to collision or chaos in the universe. Nir-vair= without-repulsion. Ikoangkar (as a process) came into existence when there was no mutual repulsion of particles leading to disharmony and dislocation of particles/Satellites, planets/stars (Nirbhau-Nirvair- 2 binary steps responsible for the creation of the universe) Akal-murat-beyond concept of time, model. A cosmic model of timelessness was created by ik oangkar. ajooni= changlessness of the model that was created Saibhang= model is self propelled as ordained by the supreme power Gurprasad- Guru nanak states this knowledge was given by/in the grace of god (gur-god, Prasad-grace) Mool mantar – (mulam vridhi hetnkam= cause of growth). Mul= fluid causal state. Defined as the manifestation of the original idea in terms of perceptible sounds: Vaikhari-perceptible Madhyam-mediatory Pasyanti-transcendental sound It is conceived that the Continuum underlying all perceptible form is: a) the substratum of space-SAT (existence) b)the substratum underlying time- ANAND (blissful experience) c) the substratum of thought- CHIT (consciousness) Pauri 2 of japji: Formation/Creation of every being (From placement& movement from electron to nebula’s) in the world all are in certain hierarchical rank order. This order is systematic. This order applies to living organisms. Gradation of ranks, virtues, vices pangs, and pleasures are all relative terms. The moon revolves around planets, which revolved around suns, which revolve in galaxies etc etc. If one understands their place in the hierarchy, they would have no ego..says guru nanak. Pauri 7 of japji: this pauri should be looked at guru nanak’s view of time, space, and phenomena. Je jug chaaray arja hor dasoonee hoye Nava khanda vich jaaneeyay, naal chalai sabh koi: Definitions: Jug- time Khands-space Sabh koi- phenomena Taken that reality stands for 3 dimensional perceptions. Pauri 16: The guru dispels myths of animals holding the world on their back. The guru places the earth In the zone free from attraction and repulsion (nirbhau, nirvair)…..that area is “santokh†“santokh thap rakhya jin suthâ€. Keetha pasao, eko kavao- in the process of cooling the earth, there were volcanic eruptions (pasao) which gave birth to so many gases and there were thunderstorms (kavao) which led to the formation of water after condensation and precipitation which in turn gave birth to water bodies, such as rives. to be continued

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh! purpose of this thread: to reveal and bring forth information regarding guru nanak sahib that people may not be normally aware of. motivation: As sikhs living in the west we are bounded to a eurocentric paradigm (simply, we have to think the way we are taught in the manners which we are taught). This goes from everything from the information in our textbooks to the way we understand gurbani. Ie. we, for some reason, tend to use a dualistic/static god and use a "western" methodology to try to understand god (ie. polarities....which are good examples to use when breaking through our relative perception of things, but claiming polar "static" goods...and polar "Static" bads leads to subcription of acts as opposed to an endeavour of self introspection).... before I sound like too much of a philosopher. I will continue with my purpose to unearth facts regarding guru nanak that are overlooked example: here is a list of the worlds explorers...I am assuming these people travelled by foot..... look at where guru nanak is, and notice how it isn't common knowledge.....whereas 1) marco polo is very well known, almost considered the benchmark by many 2) magellan...wasn't it also a search engine? 3) vasco de gama, christopher columbus...names speak for themself 4)does anyone know who batuta was? Readers digest-Great World Atlas, published by the reader’s digest association. !962 The world explorers Name Duration Ibn batuta 32 years Guru nanak 27 years Marco polo 25 years James cook 10 years Ferdinand Magellan 4 years Vasco de gama 3 years Christopher Columbus 2 years

Before going further, I would like everyone to acknowledge that I have based my thoughts on my own opinions and if I have repeated anything it is because I haven't critiqued each post up to this point. Enjoy I just joined up with the site in search for some answers MY SPEECH FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE To criticize the Sikh faith on certain aspects is becoming ineffectual for me, nobody listens, especially the people on the far right (whom I’m afraid to say dominate this site), but I’m going to criticize anyways to reach out to the very few that understand. Most Impressed, from my readings of siddh gosht and other writings within guru granth sahib ji, it is evident that Guru Nanak and others challenged and encouraged questioning, because questioning, when done with the right intention, brings forth truth or at least a quest for truth. The reason why I criticize certain aspects of faith is certainly not to offend anyone, I believe that a liberal-minded and critical approach is lacking in our religion, this is offsetting serious religious doubts in the mind of youth such as myself. Those who believe criticism is a negative thing and breaks a religion are utterly wrong, criticism is the bases on which a religion EVOLVES (take note people from the far right) and comes out stronger and more resilient (the catholic church is but a prime example). THOSE OF YOU WHO BELIEVE SIKH CRITICISM HAS BEEN LEFT UNATTENDED TO GIVE ME A SHOUT! THE NEW YOUTH OF THIS GENERATION HAVE QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT BEING ANSWERED BY THE CONSERVATIVES WHO CLAIM TO RUN THE FAITH! I agree, everything is sandwiched up and presented like a perfect “methodology†in which there is little or no room for deviance The HEGELIAN VEIW: All I’m saying is that the Sikh faith has no stance on modern relativistic socio-political issues (ie, abortion, euthanasia, evolution, genetic research, gene therapy, definition of death, etc) our faith continuously assimilates and accepts the Church’s stance as our own! Or we listen to the diehard conservatives that dominate the stages at our Gurdawara’s who are far from what we can call intellectuals (deny all you want I have witnessed this happening) THIS IS WRONG AND VERY DANGEROUS TO THE INTEGRITY OF OUR FAITH. Very interesting point. I agree with the latter, but I tend to want to disagree with the idea of crystallizing a stance on any “modern†relativistic socio-political issue. My reason being that instead of being a religion where one is focusing on cultivating knowledge, an ecstatic experience, an appreciation of life…and death, the focus will remain on ideological issues which are clearly based on each persons pre-conceived idea of wrong or right…..hence, no room for sikhi “learningâ€â€¦.Although I must say that we should have a stance, if any, based on our OWN theological/moral standpoint. For this, I appreciate the fact that the “Sarbat khalsa†has been created because that institution (ideally) should be a dynamic body which intelligently, rationally, morally, and ethically decide on what they feel is right or wrong at that time. A brief example of this is how guru gobind singh was asked to leave the fortress as uch ka pir, by the 5 pyaray at that time. NOW, I’ll take a stab at the aforementioned issues Abortion was done back in “The daysâ€. I know this because I was told of grandmothers altering their diets and doing other similar things to provoke miscarriages (These stories date back 100 years). A person who is completely pro-life will say that we should accept the child has been born with god’s grace, yet the other stance of it is that sometimes a lady has been raped/abducted…and I am sure that the rapist/abductor was not working with god’s grace…. My point here being that if a person was not able to stand up against this act (For whatever reason, and I am not being critical of the person, but rather sympathizing with an emotionally and physically taxing situation) then I can “accept†that they, if weighing everything out, don’t have it in their heart to keep the child. I am going to give my pseudo-soul understanding here as well. I think I have heard (but I need to better research this before claiming anything) that the soul enters the womb after 3 months, I believe abortions occur within the 9th week (Again I Am not sure of the accuracy of my fact). Nonetheless, it is the fact that I am saying the circumstance, reason, what constitutes killing, and the acceptance that abortion is an option are part of the whole thought process. <for those who don’t like the idea of killing, what about all those fathers who became kurimaars during the 1947 separation of India and Pakistan, where raping was as common as eating and sleeping….the fathers, killed their daughters to avoid them getting raped….I am not taking a ‘stance’ here, but rather just bringing forth circumstances> Euthanasia, ……the approach that I understand sikhi to take is to actually give it your 100% completely to rectify any situation. The fight for survival is part of evolution and I believe evolution in itself is part of “kudrat’s khelâ€. I won’t go to the extent of quoting gurbani as I Find that the “gospel†approach loses credibility when a person uses “lines†which fit their agenda. Hence I see these 2 being interrelated, I am not going to go too deep into either for now, but will gladly do so in another post. Again circumstance should dictate the former. For those Sikhs who don’t believe in “jhatkaâ€, I think a situation which is ‘allowed’ or should be made allowed is if you are on the battlefield and your best friend ‘wants’ death, then give that person death. IF they have the will to live on, which I believe is even greater, because they will have a ‘greater’ battle readjusting, getting appreciated, and exemplifying their contribution to others, and there will be a lot of false sympathy and little support along the way…but again this is my opinion. Go ahead with gene therapy and genetic engineering. I’ll give my reason, up until now, man has at best not been able to reproduce nature….we can’t create the basic elements. I think the fact that someone is trying to exert their “creative†talent to better societies ‘genetics’ on a whole is a fascinating idea, but in that process a person will also come closer to understanding “hukam†(I don’t understand it myself, Iknow it isn’t a lattice structure and there is no formula per se. My high school science teacher, who was agnostic, pretty much said “I am not atheist because science has proven to me that my body can not function the way it is by chance because the odds were in the billions). Sure it’s a nice blanket statement (he had given me a number, but it has been years), but in assessing what he said…one realizes that there is something greater in structure, larger in vision, more precise in execution, that is governing our daily lives. Call it god, call it a ‘natural’ force. My approach is that I appreciate creation, sustenance, destruction as an inevitable truth in life and admiring its myriad forms keeps me in awe….breathe…(waheguru ). So my Question now stands how do we rectify this issue? NOW THAT’S THE QUESTION WE SHOULD ASK OURSELVES. Lets work together to propel this faith into the 21st century. Citizens of the Sikh faith! Break your chains and PLEASE raise your voice, ask questions, criticize your faith, stretch boundaries and please for those conservatives, who are responding, do respond with clear and valid information. Guru Granth sahib ji, in itself is incredible, if one were to take the “wohoo, I am a sikh, a warrior of blah blah blah†out of the picture. We have a text which preserves so many dialects, so many experiences, of people from varying different backgrounds, ideological stances, religious persuasions, theological standpoints, but…like a good experiment, they all attest to a “truth†which in itself can be experienced if a person has the determination, resilience, and faith….(mind you when I mean faith, I mean the belief in oneself to fulfill a goal). This sort of faith is seen and widely accepted in modern day society because we are encouraged to dream and visualize, then further chase that with determination and ‘faith’. Hence, I think it is absolutely justified that we try to utilize that ‘faith’ in all endeavors. SIKH is derived from the sanskrity word of “sikhsaâ€, meaning the learner. If we are learner’s we should be applying the techniques of learning; passionate debate, constructive criticism, clarity and REASON! (do not undermine human reason) I agree. I am of the opinion that there is a greater lattice structure from where thought is derived. Look at the ability of Edward cayce…..(as an example of someone who is outside of the ‘sikh’ milieu) The conservatives say that we should turn to BANI whenever we are in doubt, but how? BANI doesn’t relate to current socio-political issues and drawing relations on our own is an unrelenting task, deciding whether to interpret the scriptures literally or contextually is already out of most peoples reach. BANI has a lot of underlying contextual meanings that we cannot interpret on our own. We need a Sikh institution that can lead the way (similar to the “Christian Research Groupsâ€). IF YOU AGREE JUST GIVE ME A SHOUT OUT! I just want to make sure I’m not alone or the only person that sees this issue. I see your point here and it is a nice ideal that was actually instituted prior to this discussion. The 5 pyaray, the sarbat khalsa, and the akaal boonga, was supposed to be the authority, governing body which decides, and location/institution……then we can go into 4 of 5 takhats…etc, but my point here being that the problem with any such idea is the ability of people to sit together and actually accept the possibility that something outside of their own paradigm can be the truth. Let us think about it for a second…….meat/no meat; drugs/no drugs/only under dire circumstances (in large quantities/or qualified medicinal amounts)… So I’ll sum up my points: Keep it dynamic, it allows for change which is inevitable, lets take on the challenges of “modern†or “new†issues and not solidfy anything in stone like “shariatâ€. Let us actually take the approach to learning as prescribed by the guru’s…..on this note sinister aren’t you impressed with the guru’s insight into the human mind and how they realized that ego, lust, greed, anger, and attachment cloud our ability to rationalize and see our own skewed picture?.....we have to make sure that as we approach each topic that we are both working on our own ability to approach the situation (minimizing kaam, krodh, lobh, moh ahangkar) and following the modern legal system in its iterative approach towards anything which is new . I’ll touch on the other points soon, but before I do.. I just want hear the feedback or the fact that I am being “blasphemousâ€.

On further note, I suggest we start at looking at our own flaws, strengthen ourself, lose ourself in our love for akaal and let our existence be an exemplifying vehicle. the shabad quoted by amrik singh can be applied to a sikh and a jain, a christian and a jew, etc. are we at that stage where our every breath and action is echoing god?...chances are we are likely not. One thing I like to come to this forum for is that I get to share in the positive experiences of others who are trying to tread "the path". Another reason is learning more about history/heritage, in that it strengthens my sense of belonging. ie. sikhs were the first troops to land on flanders field 500 sikhs kept 10,000+ germans at bay for 2 hours, whereas the british reinforcements lost 10,000+ men in 2 hours battle.....there is a higher conviction and blessing at play here. further, when I see religions get bashed, I don't like it. The experience of our beloved guru's and proper gursikhs was so optimum that they didn't need to prove themselves by belittling others or making comments which put them a cut above the rest. Our guru's built mosques for muslims to be able to pray in and we are here criticising muslims?? I feel exactly the same when I hear about sindhi's getting criticised. Sure these religions are different in their mode, methods and practices...but the people who adopt and practice still have the same heart, intentions, flaws, hopes, etc...... eku pita, ekas ke hum baarik

Spot on BAZ! This is what I was getting at with my comments above. Gobind singh mansukhani attacked a ritual. We as sikhs are not prescribed those rituals but have rituales we do, nonetheless. Regardless, the message of the guru was beyond that, and, in all honesty, if something isn't done with the right intention...the outcome will always be negative. I don't see why this should be complicated. We as sikhs will see gurmukhs and manmukhs (if we want to differentiate), and the manifestation of a gurmukh and a manmukh will be the same across the board. Also, I don't feel that it is my place as a sikh, or anyone else's to criticise other faith's beliefs. We can disagree with principles, but lets be 100% realistic here, there is nothing really debatable about 'fasting'. as a sikh, I see baz, getting closer to allah and the path to truth through fasting, it makes me go "Waheguru" (As god has a million ways to bring disciples close). For the sake of this argument, even as sikhs....look at all the acts we applaud 1) charity 2) reading of X number of paats 3) Y form of meditation (each of the above can be useless if we don't have the deeper/more profound intention in place...which in itself is a blessing from god). let me be 100% frank with you, at work I noticed 2 muslims co-workers working and one admitted he broke his fast 9 times last year...and watching him work, while being weak and tired, made me think...waheguru, even this commitment on their behalf, which is an inconvenience, is being done for your sake...waheguru! let us remember that waking up in the morning, and going to work is a ritual as well .

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh! I saw this post and felt there was something I could contribute to here. Firstly, the article by gobind singh mansukhani must first be looked at from the angle he has written it. He has discussed something from an intellectual point of view. His first point appeared absolutist, and can easily be seen in that light because a whole practice is being "shunned". Yet it is the context that has to be noted here. He said "Fasting is good for health but has no religious merit" in light of "Some sects of the Hindus hold very strong views on fasting. For them, fasting has some real value and has to be strictly followed" In that context sikhism does not giving the act of fasting any merit, for if it did...we would have fasts within sikhism. Instead we are advised to eat little, talk little, and sleep little so that our lifestyle is reflective of the poverty which is to be felt within. YET, this doesn't make the next comments made by gobind singh mansukhani "absolutely" correct either. Fasting as an austerity, as a ritual, as a mortification of the body by means of wilful hunger is forbidden in Sikhism. Guru Nanak says: "Penance, fasting, austerity and alms-giving are inferior to 'The Truth'; right action is superior to all." Firstly, I would replace forbidden with "discouraged" or "not encouraged". Secondly, a line of guru nanak sahib was quoted...and I don't see a reference to that line. Being sikh, I am thankful that there is an absolute minimal chance of there being error in guru granth sahib as we have copies which bear our guru's signatures. That being the case, I find it a bit disturbing why we don't quote so that people can actually go and find the shabad and understand it theirself (For that I thank amrik singh, although I'll be shedding light on that shabad in a bit). Thirdly, I am a firm believer, that raag and poetry have been used as a means to convey the message so that our soul/spirit becomes enraptured. The devotion of the kirtanee, the mood of the raag, the truth in the message, and the metaphors/similes within gurbani leave an impression on the mind and the heart....scientifically both sides of the brain are being endured and the message is efficiently conveyed. In this situation, we only have the intellectual/ideological element which is being conveyed..so there are FURTHER elements to the equation such as that "uthanka, raag...(to get an idea of the emotion, the grammar, the rahao, the whole shabad in general" which should be understood before someone decides on what those words really mean, and further, and more importantly, what the guru is actually trying to say. a side note: we as sikhs have rituals (a set of actions we do, regardless of whether they are empty or not). I believe the guru's were against empty rituals, and had both the experience of the divine and understanding of religion/culture/society to be able to give the wisdom required to strengthen and reinforce devotion through each person's respective path. To sit there and stick all "hindus" and all "muslims" under 2 banners is quite comical because so many different people with different ideologies and practices would be standing beside each other thinking "What the...you're not even X" (where x= muslim or hindu); Us sikhs would do the same based on our religious affiliations and ideological differences. so to sum up the last point, words are contextualized with intent, and since that one line from gobind singh mansukhani is so brief; I choose to disregard it for now and say "it proved a point he was trying to make, but I can not be 100% sure that it was used in the right context"....... Now, I thank amrik singh for the shabad he posted. The shabad had a reference. On a personal level (if I look at life as hindu, muslim, sikh)...I would not be affected as 2 other groups are being criticized and I am sitting here scott free. But, since I am a human and gurbani has been there for all of humanity, I have to take it one step deeper. Further, as a khalsa-sikh, a distinguished member of society, I MUST understand the shabad to its entirity so that I can understand the gist to humanity at large so I Can personally test my daily rituals and lifestyle to see if it is on par with the truth. Firstly, this shabad is bhairon- raag (morning time, from the 4th quarter of the night to sunrise, it is derived from ramkali todi+gauree, it creates a solemn and delightful mood <like a child yawning…spiritually it is like us being awakened), 24th raag in Sri Guru granth sahib ji)…..I can go on and on, and get down to the nitty gritty about what it is meant to evoke but this post will become more boring than it actually is. Uthanka(background): Guru Arjun sahib, 5th guru, honored this baani of kabir for being in line with gurmat. This shabad was an answer to pundits & mullahs who were saying “if you’re a hindu, then why aren’t you doing hindu actsâ€; “if you’re a muslim actsâ€â€¦..this bani is an explanation of what kabir is, and if you look at it from the perspective I mentioned earlier, guru arjun sahib, the 5th nanak, is reiterating where people are getting caught in their practices and losing sight of what they are really committed to if that. If you anyone would like, I can translate the shabad, as to my understanding but from a baseline point of view If a person is arguing over whether act A should be done over act B, how is it that they can even assume that they have understood the “one†they are acting for?????.....if the intention isn’t there, whats the use of the action?

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh sant sham singh addanshahi was one of the panj pyaray for bhai veer singh. the british have old old classical music, not necessarily kirtan in their archives. you'd be lucky to get a rababi in there. sham singh was completely against the usage of the harmonium in darbar sahib, his kirtan is most likely not recorded if you want an idea of how it could have possibly sounded....check out this link http://www.gurmatsangeetproject.com/Pages/RareRecordings.asp listen to both shabads by sudh singh pradhaan singh.... we would be lucky at this point to have kirtan of bhai taba or even bhai jawala singh ji (father of bhai avtar singh) gurmat sangeet was the pillar of sikhi...the fullest expression of inner naad and pyaar for everyone

Zafarnamah- translation by amrik singh  Translated by zafarnama sateek by pyara singh padam & sateek by pundit narain singh History: A letter written to Aurangzeb by Guru Gobind Singh (after his 2 sons (less than 10 yrs old) were bricked alive and the 2 elders (mid-teens) died in battle)where ‘bar do alam shah’ Guru Gobind Singh ji discusses spiritual and worldly matters. He points out moral and ethical flaws done by aurangzeb. In this work you see how Guru Gobind Singh talks about how everything possible should be done to avoid war, but that one should employ a sword when all others means have been exhausted. Having the ability to defend the weak (which only occurs when one is trained to take on any challenges in life, selflessly) is one of the marks of a complete man. Guru Gobind Singh wanted to meet with aurangzeb. I will write more on the history in the next post, I wanted to translate the Punjabi translation of hikayatan (as the original was Persian, as was the court language at that time). Guru Gobind Singh ji was well learned in many languages (bachitar natak is an attestation to this where guru sahib says himself that he was taught many vocations <,deeni bhaant, bhaant ki sisha keenee aneyk bhant tan peechee>), and I thought why not put the time and effort to actually understand and try to apply it….so here is the first attempt 1-3 of 12 (in the opening) Ik oangkar hukam sat= one primal energy manifested creation, and residing in creation, yet still aloof…whose orders are true and the truth Sri vaaheguru ji ki fateh= those who take that god’s support in all affairs are victorious. Persian: kamaale karaamaat kaayam kareem|| raza baksh raazak rihaako raheem|| Pyara singh padam:That all powerful entity is completely permanent, immovable/infallible, merciful, and the bestower of peace and the deliverer of salvation (breaking one from all bondages). Pundit narain singh: That all powerful entity is the complete force which is permanent, immovable/infallible, and merciful; whoever follows its divine orders receives blessings. That benevolent (compassionate) entity will also break all bondages ( of its divine seeker…this I added in to contextualize). Persian: ama baksh bakshanday o dastgeer || razabaksh rozee deho dil pazeer|| Note: the brackets() include my own understanding of the relation… Pyara singh padam: the one who keeps you at his feet (like a protector), one who gives/blesses freely (like a bestower), the one who carries you holding onto your arm (like a friend); blesses and forgives your faults (like a benevolent judge); one to provide for you daily (like a provider) and one to reel your heart in (like a lover). Pundit narain singh: the one who keeps you moral and provides you with peace; He is compassionate and pulls you out of your obstacles and tough times by providing you with his hand for guidance (like a parent holding a child’s hand). he blesses you with forgiveness for flaws and provides for all; he is also the enticer. Persian: shahenshah khoobee daho rahanmoohan || ke baygoono beychoon chooan beynooman|| Pyara singh padam: He is the sovereign of all sovereigns, who confers virtues. His true distinction is without color and form. There is no fathomable piece of his form in this creation. Pundit narain singh: He is the sovereign of all sovereigns who confers virtues and shows you the right way. He is without color and form, and There is no fathomable piece of his distinction in this creation.

jhoota... well I believe it was mehtaab singh (correct me if I'm wrong) who was noted for sitting beside the poor and eating with them in the langar (and not every poor person was amritdhari). jhoot- well there are many elements to this 1) cleanliness- basic germs 2) 'spiritual' cleanliness- a whole milieu of reasons why it lessens spirituality 3) ego- "look guys, I'm religious and pure......btw, you're not" 4) in times of war- being careful that someone isn't trying to infiltrate, hence; making sure you eat along side those who you know and trust 5) non-literal meaning: could refer to stealing or other 'sins' with most people, they follow whatever their religion tells them, and certain acts of love and devotion, which are manifested through restraints and practices tend to somehow take credit for spiritual advancement...instead of akaal purakh and akaal purakh's nadar (gurparsad) this is my take, I could be wrong...but either way; its a perspective for baz: rehitnaama's and some "oral tradition" do refer to not eating the jhoot of non-amritdhari's.... (who and when those rehitnaamay were written by etc..are a cause of conflict at times). I do subscribe to the cleanliness thing, ie. I prefer not to eat the jhoota of a someone who has drank liquor or smoked....everything else, I don't think I've ever given anythought too my 2 cents

kiddhan prava, the kashmiri's and the bihari's (from patna) were the best calligraphers for the gurmukhi script. As per the hukamnama's; there are also other styles used by earlier guru's which can be found, I'll find the pics and post them up. (its sad, but calligraphy was practiced ALOT prior to the printing press, and many sikhs would write out their own gutkay and give them out to people....they would go to a taksal (a school) to make sure that they had the right spelling etc..)

kiddhan prava here are a few things to try 1)http://www.nishkam.org/oldage.html 2)Established 1904 The address is: Central Khalsa Yateemkhana (Orphanage) (run by Chief Khalsa Diwan) Shaheed Udham Singh Chowk (Putlighar) G.T. Road, Amritsar Telephones: (when dialling from the US) 011-91-183-562531 011-91-183-211590 The honorary member incharge is: Bhag Singh Ankhi 3).Central Khalsa Yatim Khana (near Khalsa College) 2.Manukta da Ghar (run by Bibi Amarjeet Kaur). (both in amritsar) 4)this is a VERY good one GUR AASRA Foundation, Canada P.O Box 3622, Vancouver, B.C Canada V6B 3Y6 Phone: 604-685-8866 or 604-588-0233 Fax: 604-638-1471 Email:guraasra@hotmail.com or info@guraasra.com other groups to find information from include 1)http://www.khalsaaid.org/projects.html 2)FATEH (I know the organizer of this, and this one year program is set up so a person can go and help develop a community through their vocation....if you need more info. let me know...I attended this in india for 3 days, I would love to do it properly)

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...=t&id=23680 Transliteration from faridkotee teeka/ sant ameer singh (sevapanthi)/bhai veer singh 1)My beloved one, your words are sweet and timeless (amrit). 2)Incomparably beautiful, causing one to be hopelessly drawn to you, my dear one….you are within everything and still away from us all (harry’s note: ik –oangkar philosophy…where the closest we can get to god, being manifest is the oangkar or the resonating element which Is manifest from the time of creation). (NOTE: the qualities of god which are being praised: (beloved, beautiful, charmingly attractive….the key thing to note is how these are qualities which have drawn the seeker to god, which is within….this love creates a majestic admiration…..hence, god is seen as a sovereign in the next few stanzas). 3)hey my sovereign, I don’t want to dominate anything in this world, nor do I want liberation. All I ask for is that my heart hold a permanent place for your lotus feet (impression of god) within it. (harry’s note: this is referring to the fact that most people want to be successful, either spiritually or materialistically (or both), and both have the desire of building theirselves up….<only to get shattered> guruji is exemplifying the desire of a true sikh/(seeker)…which is submission to that 4) brahma, shiv, siddha’s, muni’s, worshippers of inder are all manifestations of worshipped entities, but for me, you are the only one worth worshipping. ( Harry’s note: the reason being that these are all manifestations of god, in god’s sargun (tangible) qualities, and worshipping any of them means seeing duality, but in essence, all that is seen is one entity) 5)hey lord, I have come in poverty to your door. I have failed in life and submitted my self (fallen at the feet of the saints) to the way of the saints. (the term sant here refers to the state where one is aware of the divine spark within and one is hence an observer, and no longer the ego…..din is also referring to way, when understood in arabic….hence, this can be understood as : I have chosen the way of life/religion(din) which brings me to your door oh lord, and I have submitted to those who you have blessed (the saints) and have forsaken my way. (sant although referring to an individual is actually the state of existence without ego and one is a sant when they have gurparsaad….the reward after the hard work of giving oneself up). 6) nanak says, when I met the creator (prabhu)…(which only happened after I gave my mind to the creator (manohar- man;mind, har; lost) or lost my mind to the creator did my mind attain sweet bliss from which my mind really blossomed)…. This means that my mind gained peace and blossomed to its full potential when I gave my mind to god.

Historical context: one source of history states that the laavan was a sermon that fulfilled 2 purposes in one situation. The guru showed benevolence by getting a poor girl married to a groom without taking money for the service as well as giving a jagyasu (searcher of the soul) an explanation of the requirements to attain union with the Creator. The discourse was given using the wife/husband relationship as a metaphor for the jagyasu/creator relationship. Main Message: listen to your heart and practice inner contemplation. This motivates good actions. 1. Practical application: The first step of marriage is to be mentally ready and absorbed in your partner with the focus on keeping yourself faithful in every step of the marriage. Practice virtues which develop your marriage and avoid vices which destroy your marriage. When you focus on loving your partner; you will escape other diversions and obstacles which prevent growth in a relationship. When one is absorbed in their partner’s virtues, one receives bliss from the devotion. Guru Nanak says that these are the steps in the first stage of marriage Second LAAV: Main message: Recognize and appreciate the virtues the guru has blessed the Sikh (searcher of the soul) with. Practical application: The second step of marriage is to realize the virtues which make relationships successful. Cultivate virtues that ensure your relationship’s survival. This process eliminates fears and doubts caused by the ego. There is a healthy “fear of loss†that a fulfilling relationship provides, this fear reinforces the need to cultivate virtue. The peace provided by a good marriage carries on into your daily life. Guru Nanak says the resonance/feeling of the second stage of marriage is blissful. Third LAAV: Main message: Understand that the mind has developed a deeper yearning for the creator. Practical application: The third step in marriage is to have a deeper connection and comfort with your partner. Seeing other couples with a deeper connection reinforces one’s own efforts towards working at marriage. One starts to have more faith in the marriage and appreciate it more. The feelings and communication with your partner becomes more sincere. Nanak says that cultivating the deeper relationship is the third duty in marriage Fourth LAAV Main Message: Be appreciative of the knowledge and wisdom that has intuitively developed during the cultivation of a relationship with the creator. Practical application: When one has experienced the bliss of a healthy relationship they become very thankful because this bliss never goes. It is that special feeling which bonds a couple. When one has been blessed with the ability to do all this (As all of these steps happen with the grace of the guru), the couple has attained to the stage of an unbreakable relationship. Nanak says this is the final stage and complete stage of a marriage. All the above also applies to building a relationship with god.

Historical context: one source of history states that the laavan was a sermon that fulfilled 2 purposes in one situation. The guru showed benevolence by getting a poor girl married to a groom without taking money for the service as well as giving a jagyasu (searcher of the soul) an explanation of the requirements to attain union with the Creator. The discourse was given using the wife/husband relationship as a metaphor for the jagyasu/creator relationship. Main Message: listen to your heart and practice inner contemplation. This motivates good actions. 1. Practical application: The first step of marriage is to be mentally ready and absorbed in your partner with the focus on keeping yourself faithful in every step of the marriage. Practice virtues which develop your marriage and avoid vices which destroy your marriage. When you focus on loving your partner; you will escape other diversions and obstacles which prevent growth in a relationship. When one is absorbed in their partner’s virtues, one receives bliss from the devotion. Guru Nanak says that these are the steps in the first stage of marriage Second LAAV: Main message: Recognize and appreciate the virtues the guru has blessed the Sikh (searcher of the soul) with. Practical application: The second step of marriage is to realize the virtues which make relationships successful. Cultivate virtues that ensure your relationship’s survival. This process eliminates fears and doubts caused by the ego. There is a healthy “fear of loss†that a fulfilling relationship provides, this fear reinforces the need to cultivate virtue. The peace provided by a good marriage carries on into your daily life. Guru Nanak says the resonance/feeling of the second stage of marriage is blissful. Third LAAV: Main message: Understand that the mind has developed a deeper yearning for the creator. Practical application: The third step in marriage is to have a deeper connection and comfort with your partner. Seeing other couples with a deeper connection reinforces one’s own efforts towards working at marriage. One starts to have more faith in the marriage and appreciate it more. The feelings and communication with your partner becomes more sincere. Nanak says that cultivating the deeper relationship is the third duty in marriage Fourth LAAV Main Message: Be appreciative of the knowledge and wisdom that has intuitively developed during the cultivation of a relationship with the creator. Practical application: When one has experienced the bliss of a healthy relationship they become very thankful because this bliss never goes. It is that special feeling which bonds a couple. When one has been blessed with the ability to do all this (As all of these steps happen with the grace of the guru), the couple has attained to the stage of an unbreakable relationship. Nanak says this is the final stage and complete stage of a marriage. All the above also applies to building a relationship with god.

I beg to differ with hari on this one, the sikh-satguru relationship is very personal, as I see the satguru as a manifestation of the truth within us... Now, in guruji's darbar I see it 2 fold: 1) we matha tayk with money because we are entering an institution that is true in every principle it stands for. It is a sovereign's court! I history: from my understanding, religion was institutionalized by guru nanak through the dharamsaal so it was made free for all, the whole setup is like a kingdom.... 1) people enter 2) bow to the sovereign of the kingdom (sabad-guru, = akaal, for us the sabad is guru, and that guru is an emmanation of god) 3) you give a token of appreciation/respect for being taken care of by the sovereign (that is our sharda) 4) you hear divine music praising the true king 5) you get a blessing/momento from the kingdom (prashaad) 6) you hear the sovereign speak (hukamnama) from a spiritual level, when you give money to guru ji as bheta, you are saying...."thank you guruji, for without you living in this world with money/maya wouldn't be possible". the moment a person sees their guru as a beggar, they have already forfeited their status of a sikh.

I beg to differ with hari on this one, the sikh-satguru relationship is very personal, as I see the satguru as a manifestation of the truth within us... Now, in guruji's darbar I see it 2 fold: 1) we matha tayk with money because we are entering an institution that is true in every principle it stands for. It is a sovereign's court! I history: from my understanding, religion was institutionalized by guru nanak through the dharamsaal so it was made free for all, the whole setup is like a kingdom.... 1) people enter 2) bow to the sovereign of the kingdom (sabad-guru, = akaal, for us the sabad is guru, and that guru is an emmanation of god) 3) you give a token of appreciation/respect for being taken care of by the sovereign (that is our sharda) 4) you hear divine music praising the true king 5) you get a blessing/momento from the kingdom (prashaad) 6) you hear the sovereign speak (hukamnama) from a spiritual level, when you give money to guru ji as bheta, you are saying...."thank you guruji, for without you living in this world with money/maya wouldn't be possible". the moment a person sees their guru as a beggar, they have already forfeited their status of a sikh.

I may sound like a prick, but shouldn't we be going out and buying the album instead of putting it up on servers? the guy must have a copyright, and further....how is snatching it off the net...promoting it?

waheguru..... 1/3 of the trinity bows, may the sangat be conferred with blessings from the dera!

here is something an uncle told me at dixie gurdwara, one tuesday evening in 2000....(this is the beauty of sangat, you never know when guru nanak is residing on someone's tongue). he said "harminder singh, main tuhanu dasda...... " waheguru was in its primal force and developed creation, in that creation waheguru manifested itself.....and waheguru created everything in cycles (day/night, evolution of species, hot/cold)....in that creation, god created man who was to realise god in that creation...(the element of god that can be realised), but then god thought....lets create an obstacle that will make it difficult, so the obstacle became maya (illusion...the transitory).....and so after man has that one moment to actually get to that point he will have to find god but through the illusion.....then out of maya came 5 dogs that have the duty of hounding the mind....(kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar)...(lust, anger, greed, attachment, and ego)....these 5 are barking in our ears 24/7....as long as we live" I hope that helps.... my thoughts: an athlete who wants to win the olympics will see the training as discipline, the lazy excuse of an athlete will see the training as punishment, one has the will and will appreciate the training as it helps to constantly assess progress...... on the same note, as many others have said...be thankful to god of the hard lessons you learn.......as god is only as near or as far as you can perceive akaaaaaaaal

what is mysticism devoid of enraptured love for the creator?