SURYADEV

I think it was the Panj Granthi as a daily nitnem

A booklet published by Sant Jagjit Singh contains a list of nitnem banis recited by sikhs before 10th guru. I too believe it is all the banis in Panj Granthi- been years since I read through the booklet.

Some Sikhs still recite the panj and das granthi in addition to standard nitnem. Admittedly you need time on your hand because it takes ages to go through.

I can't remember the title of the booklet , but they used to give it away free - as per Nirmala tradition that you cannot put a value on knowledge.

Basically the booklet was a mini-encyclopedia giving lists, details and background info on sanatan/sikh history. ie eventful dates forgotten to modern sikhs,name of 40 mukte, 14 rattans, 9 riddhis, 18 siddhis, list of skills/knowledge a person should learn (not for puritan sikhs, though), categories of foods. 8 types of sexual lust, types of hankar, etc, etc.

A real gem of a book!!! Its in Panjabi and recommend anyone to get hold of it to read.

cant see nuthin...!

Jattboot, what gave you the impression that Gurbani has been changed?

As stated earlier the Sant Smagam event that took place many years ago, also looking at the differing spellings used by different publishers og gutkas and pothis - not to mention the various ways santhia is taught by different schools.

Digressing for a moment - I was once told by a Mehta sudent that there are so many different ways of doing santhia from different sampardas and groups that he advised me not to get too hung up by getting it exactly right ( ie. where to stress a syllable to to place pauses), because as soon as I go to someone elsse I will have to re-learn the bani over again.

the kartarpuri bir is said to be the original version (which actually still exists?) . Would it not be simpler just to copy , word for word, the Kartarpuri Bir and add the bani of 9th Guru??

Anyone.....????

Can anyone recommend a very good quality Panjabi/English-English/Panjabi dictionary??

I've seen a few sold in UK local desi book shops and library stock, but they seem to be be basics of language. I'm looking for graduate level stuff.

Cheers

I once heard from someone that there is a 'saraf' on AKJ kirtania's that they will never be able to do kirtan unless they have a copy of the 'amrit kirtan' pothi with them. I think its due to their anti raagmala stance.

you will have noticed that whenever they do kirtan they will have this pothi in front of them.

Has anyone heard of this before??

NOT AKJ-bashing, but just trying to satisfy those niggling curiosities that I have been hearing for years.

I've recently heard this raag on BBC Asian Network. A fusion of classical with modern dance music. in Teental. Its by a muslim ragi. really nice!! the title is called KARTAR.

anyone else heard, what do you make of it??

In the 50's/60's there was a major gathering of the mahapurshes of the panth. they were called together to come up with a solution to the changes that had been made to the SGGS - the manglacharan, changes/ommisions to the lagamatras (ie accents symbols), deletion of the ragamala, larrivar to padshed etc.

Do any of you guys know what was the outcome??

From what I understand they were unable to achieve the desired outcome to restore the SGGS to its original form. All the birs that contained mistakes were taken away secretly. Some sants, including Sant isher Singh ji of nanaksar decided that they could no longer tolerate this beadbi and wished to leave this earth ( according to Isher Chamatkar biography book).

It is my understanding that the current birs are full of mistakes and changes and deletions. you just need to watch a mass concurrent Akhand Path recitation and you will see that pages are turned over at different times even though they arer on the same verses/ sentances.

If you look at gutkas published by different groups you will still notice that manglacharans differ or that some are printed with pplenty of bindi's on many words, whereas others will not have them.

If this is the case, as I believe, then the Panth surely is damned for allowing this to happen, then not being willing to amend the mistakes!

PLEASE , no knee jerk reactions , just a cool sensible disscusion!

Takth maryada's are unique should never be criticized by anyone

didn't critisize... just stating it.

But agree with all you said N3o s!ingh.

another aspect of the maryada - also at patna sahib i think- is that first puja is done to shastar and only then to SGGS. When sangat bows down, it is to the inner sanctum and not to the Aad/Dasam Granths which are at the sides.

I've been there a few times and I can say that the experience is absolute magical. no other takhat is the same!

....thats it .....made up my mind.....off to get a Polish bride!!!

Back to the Indian Space Programme....

On a website (tribute to hinduism.com, I think!) the author writes about VIMANA - or ancient indian air/space craft (as well as other indian achievements and technologies).

Does anyone here know anything about this stuff?? Apparently , there are old sanskrit treatise written about it many centuries ago. Though he does not mention names.

what difference does the date make?

A question to ask the SGPC and their lot!!

Sooo much do they want to distance themselves from anything Hindu and Indian!

Many Moons ago Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal wale told of an ancient ceremony of Indian warrior cultures.

When a child is born the very first thing that is given to it - even before water or mothers breast- is the milk of a lioness! To instill bir ras/courage etc.

Apart from the obvious question: how on earth do you get hold of a lions breastmilk?????

Does anyone know anything of this tradition and any other details??

Checked out the old , old cassettes I have from this chap: Released by Music India, various ragas performed by Kumar Ghandarav.

Just realised: it could simply be his name; though ironic that he should turn out to be a classicist!

Checked out the old , old cassettes I have from this chap: Released by Music India, various ragas performed by Kumar Ghandarav.

Just realised: it could simply be his name; though ironic that he should turn out to be a classicist!

A few weeks ago there was an interesting documentry (Channel 5 , UK)about a group of Christian warriors.

The Knights Templar existed at the time of the Crusades in the Holy Land. They were men who dedicated their lives to God and their organisation. They had no personal possesions, would not marry.

They were in existance over 200yrs with centres in most parts of Europe, gained immense wealththrough trade, banking etc. Programme stated they had more wealth and money in Normandy than the whole of England did! They answered to no man but the Pontiff in Rome.

Eventually they were destroyed by the jealous French emporer. The senior knights in their Parisian HQ arrested on trumpped up charges of heresy.

I could not help but think of of similarities with Nihang Dals of old (sans bhang).

Do any of you guys know anything more of this holy order??

any pics of baba bahaal das? any info, stories?

Details of Baba Bahaal Das Ji can be found in the biography of Baba Maha Harnam Singh Ji of Bhucho Kalan. it comes as a set of several volumes in Panjabi (-though, not too difficult a read). I am not aware of pics of them.

In Sanatan/Indian thought Ghandaravs are the celestial musicians or singers of heaven.

I have heard certain classical musicians of India with the same title.

Could anyone explain who these individuals are? Are they higher that a Pandit or Ustad of Indian music? Is the title awarded by a guru to the shish or by peers?

let me give you guys an anlogy:

Is she/it:-

1. The Queen

2. Elizabeth Regina

3. Her Britannic Majesty of GB and NI

4. Queenie

5. Old lady scrounging off British Taxpayer

Its the same person but different name or title used at differing occasions, most being inter-changable!!!!

All this 'intellectual' debate about Hindu, Sikh, Sanatan, Surya Bansi etc.

For those of you without the brains of an archibishop, let me explain:

the subject matter is the same as it was when Gurdev Nidar Singh was teaching years ago. Only the name/title has changed/can be changed.

With all this arguing about the title of a book how on earth will you guys be reading/studying the contents???

Fateh and Out!

rasoya

U really meant "nanga halwai" , didn't ya???

Read 'Stretching Scientifically' . Need to read it a couple of times as it as a very loose structure. By an East German trainer. He describes different forms of flexibility: ballistic (swinging your legs higher), static (being able to force yourself into a stretch ie. doing the splits on the floor and dynamic(?) (being able to slowly raise your leg up inthe air using its own strength).

He goes onto state the different types of flexibility required for different sports. Also that some forms of flexiblility/stretching will actually hinder your sports performance - something that is said by Nihang Nidar Singh in his Sanjam Kiriya classes.

Also being bought up as a veggie helps with natural suppleness, as stated by Master Leepo 7th Dan JuJitsu! (Something to remember when you next take birth - if you're a meat eater.)

with all the fat and sugar and junk calories that goes in a Full English breakfast, its not too dissimilar to what all langars serve these days.

My question is, What is worse: serving meat in gurdwaras or the crap that you usually find being served leading to obesity, Type II diabetes, gout, joint problems and a whole host of health issues amongst the community??

Even our kids are bribed and poisoned to attend gurdwaras/sikh camps with plates of chips, pizza, beans, coke etc!!

"If its the person who I think it is, they did seva of Baba Maha Harnam Singh Ji ( who were the guru of Baba Nand Singh Ji Nanaksar Wale). Their sakhis appear in the biography of Baba Harnam Singh Ji.

Very kat'han seva it was too!

I'll speak to my sources to find out more. " Pg1

My misunderstanding. Iwas thinking of BABA BAHAAL DAS JI who were the sevadar of baba harnam singh ji. Still worth reading about them.