Pheena

Nanak calls the second division the realm of knowledge. Religion exists. The day you recognize this you attain knowledge. Religion is -- only you have closed your eyes to it. The sun is shining, only you have closed your eyes to it. The sun is shining, only you have closed your doors and windows; the lamp burns, but you stand with your back to it. It is pouring outside, but you are afraid to get wet, so you hide yourself in some dark cave. Religion is going on all the time but you have kept yourself away -- somewhere far away. To come back, to return and retrace your steps, is called Knowledge. Every man will have to come back. Man is capable of going far. The animals, the plants, the birds have no religion, for they do not have the ability to go outside of nature. Whatever they do is within nature's law. They do not have the sense even to wander. Wandering requires a little intelligence. You need at least a little courage to go wrong; and you need some awareness to step off the path. This much man has, but then to come back to the path you need more awareness. So the animals are in their right place, for they cannot wander. This is not a very laudable state of being; it is actually a helplessness. The average man has a little intelligence. He can wander; therefore, he has gone astray. Then there are those who attain buddhahood, like Nanak and Kabir. They have the highest awareness at their command; they have come back. What the animals have naturally you have to attain through your sadhana, through your spiritual practice. Buddha also returns to the point where the plants always are. The same supreme bliss that the plants enjoy is attained by Buddha but there is a basic difference between the two: Buddha is completely aware of the bliss that rains on him, whereas the plant has no awareness of the bliss that rains on it. Nature is unconscious, whereas the buddha-purusha is naturally in full awareness. We are between these two. Nature is not conscious; in nature happiness and joy are natural but the knower, the enjoyer of this happiness is absent. It is just as if you are unconscious while jewels are raining all over you. It makes no difference to you whether it is raining stones or raining jewels. Then if you open your eyes you become aware of the endless bounty that has rained on you. Buddha has attained only what was so readily available to the stones; he returns to the same place. But this coming back is an absolutely new happening. The place is the same, the rocks are the same; the very tree under which Buddha attained enlightenment is also where Buddha is. And this is bound to be, for God is hidden in every grain, every particle. But what is the difference between the Bodhi Tree and Buddha? There is a vast difference. The place is one, but the difference is infinite! The difference is that Buddha is experiencing this bliss in full consciousness; in full wakefulness he feels the infinite glory. The same glory pours on the tree but the tree is oblivious of it. The same glory rains on you also, but you have chosen to stand with your back to it. The trees face towards Him but they cannot know Him. You can know Him but you have turned in the opposite direction! The day you take a full turn, the day your eyes rest on His glory, you shall know. This knowing Nanak refers to as knowledge. The realm of knowledge is man's attainment. Religion will be even if there is no man left on earth, but knowledge cannot be. Existence has tried to seek knowledge through man; therefore, man is the peak of creation. You do not know how many possibilities of glory are readily available to you. God wishes to become awake through you; He wishes to awaken from within you. In nature God is dormant. In man he has stirred. He wants to awaken in man. In nature there is the dark, moonless night and deep slumber. In man the moment of dawn has arrived. If you miss, you will remain in the dark night. If you open your eyes and see, you will also be like Buddha, Nanak, Kabir; until then you will suffer. Understand the eternal principle: if you do not become what you could become, you will suffer; if you become what you should have become, your life will be filled with bliss. Bliss means fulfillment -- the attainment of that which you had the power to attain. Until the tree that lies dormant in the seed attains its full growth and bears flowers and fruit, a tension always remains inside. If you die without singing the song you were born to sing, you will die in sorrow. You shall have to be born again and again in order to sing this song for nature does not accept things in halves. The day you are complete, total, you will be accepted. Therefore, the Hindus say, "He who is perfect is not born again." He has sung his song and attained his bliss. The stream has met the ocean and there is no reason for him to come back. You return again and again because you fail every time. Nature sends you back again and again, for nature is in no hurry. It has infinite time at its disposal. I have heard: Two people were traveling in a train. One was from Bombay and the other from rural Bihar. The Bihari gentleman asked, "What is your name, kind sir?" "Veenu," replied the Bombayite. "And what is yours?" "Sri Sri Satyadev Narayan-Prasad Sinha." The Bombayite's eyes almost popped out of their sockets. "Such a long name!" he exclaimed. "Well, you see," explained the Bihari, "we are not Bombayites. We have enough time at our disposal for such names." God is not a resident of Bombay. He has plenty of time. Nature is in no hurry. You may fall a thousand times; you may prove worthless endless times, and nature will patiently push you back here. But you will suffer endlessly until you succeed. Unless and until you have sung your song, unless and until you have fulfilled your destiny, you will not be accepted. There is only one sorrow, one anguish, that this existence does not accept you but turns you back again and again. Once you are accepted, you are immersed in it and then there is no return. Nanak calls the second division the realm of knowledge -- to know what is with full awareness.

:shock: :shock: i can count the number of hair onur arm...too close..... :shock:

ahh i c now veer, thanks for explaining. As for you not finding Sangat....think of it this way, you are preparing yourself and trust me, i say this with great faith, that in due time you will find the Sadh Sangat. Waheguru.

All that is relevant to the Lord -- whatever it be -- is truth. Whatever is relevant to you is false, for your very being is false. Truth cannot grow from untruth. Whatever you create will be merely a house of cards -- a slight wind, and it will fall. Whatever you make cannot be more than a paper boat that will sink as soon as it sets sail. You cannot travel in it. Whatever is created by the ego is false, for the ego itself is false. Whatever belongs to God is true. The day this truth dawns on you, you will stop wasting your energy in creating untruths; instead you will begin to utilize it to know truth. Samsari involves a person who is busy creating untruths. You do not realize the falsity of the world for you are wrapped up in it. Stand a little away and observe your world -- how frightening its falsity is! A man hoards currency notes. He does not realize that these notes are mere bits of paper, only a means of transaction. If the government changes and the new government decides to cancel this currency, they become just paper! So this man is actually gambling on an assumption that cannot be relied on. There is a hotel in America. During the depression of 1930 when the economy of America crashed, the owner pasted the walls with useless bonds that formerly had been worth tens of millions of dollars. Millions upon millions of dollars turned into useless paper. On the other hand, there is this man amassing currency notes. He has no other interest but to hoard money. He fills his safe, but he does not know that for each banknote he is selling his own life, for each moment is precious. The energy he could have utilized in attaining God he wastes in gathering the banknotes. In Mexico pebbles and stones were once used as coins, for it is only a matter of general agreement; you use paper to represent money, but surely stones are more valuable than paper! Gold is gold for we have agreed to its value. If tomorrow the wind changes, iron will be valued in place of gold, and gold will lose all importance. Then jewels and ornaments will be made of iron. There are tribes in Africa who value bones and not gold. They wear ornaments, necklaces, etc. of bones. Gold has no value for them. They will not exchange it for their bones. It is all a game of values, and for these values you sacrifice your life. You are willing to sacrifice anything so that people may honor you. What is the meaning of this honor? Who are those people whose recognition you crave? They are the same ones hankering for your honor. What is the value of their respect? What do you gain by being honored by fools? And the crowds of the foolish in this world cannot be counted. Winston Churchill went to America. He spoke at a meeting before a huge crowd; the hall was filled to capacity. After the meeting a woman came up to him and said, "You must be delighted to see so many people come to hear you. Whenever you speak the hall is packed." Churchill replied, "Whenever I see a packed hall I say to myself, 'If it was my execution fifty times more people would have come.' How can one trust these people? They hear me and they clap. If I were being hanged, they would still clap. So whenever I see a hall filled with people I remind myself that these very same people would turn out in large numbers and enjoy the sight if I were executed." The same people will acclaim you when you rise, and applaud even louder when you fall. Where do you want to reach by gathering this crowd and getting their votes? What companionship do you get when they are with you? And how high do you hope to rise by riding on their shoulders? But man wagers his life for these paltry gains -- how to win acclaim from people, how to rise in their esteem. Nanak says that whatever is born out of the ego is false; it cannot but be false. All this is a quest of the ego. The politician comes to your door, folds his hands, bows his head and asks for your vote. You give him the vote; he gets you the position. This is mutual ego gratification. It happened once: There was a man who used to strike the hour in a clock tower in a town that also had a small telephone exchange. Every morning at nine o'clock the telephone exchange would get a call asking for the time. Now the exchange people would hear the clock tower strike nine and set their clocks by it. This went on for a long time until one day the operator asked the caller who he was and why he asked the hour at exactly nine every morning. The caller answered, "I am the man in charge of the clock tower." You can imagine the state of affairs: this man depends upon the exchange and the exchange depends on him -- totally reciprocal! This mutual interdependence exists in all our dealings. I look at you, you look at me; I respect you, you respect me; you nourish my ego, I nourish yours. Such is this vast network of falsity. SAYS NANAK, HE IS THE TRUE REALITY AND ALL HIS WORKS ARE TRUE. Seek truth first. Do nothing before that. For whatever you do before that is bound to be false. Only one thing is worth doing: recognize truth! Then you may do anything.

exactly what i was thinking, i mean Whos to say that people will not follow this and who knows maybe the SGPC will implement this in the Rehat maryada that hey if our 10th guru had more than 1 wife, so can you. The reason behind the doings of our guru needs Explanation for there to be an end to this topic. So far that has not yet been provided.

i remember making roti when i was little, i couldn't get thing to turn out all round, so i'd take a Bowl and place on the roti and trace it.. 8)

in the end it does not make a difference to me if our guru ji had one wife or 3. I still feel the same way. There are many things that were done by our Guru's that we do not and could not understand. We can all Assume and hope the HIstorians are not wrong in their findings. I don't think the real question is being answered here. Well first of all DID OUR GURU HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE?????????? Some say yes some say no? so what is the truth? NOw when someone says wife, does it means that he actually had gone infront of our SGGS and gotten married?? If it is true that he actually married these women then the question remains, Why? What purpose was it for our guru to have 3 wives?? It could not be KAAM. It could not be Companionship. So what is left, nothing but Compassion and Love, i don't think it was any different than the other Kaurs and Singhs who lived in the Presence of OUR guru.

The original question does not question the direction of the arrow but the arrow itself. I don't maybe its just me, but to me its not worthwhile to ask why the comb is made of wood...the purpose for it is much more greater. You do not ask why is the Fork made of Plastic or metal not wood?? even if u do ask what purpose would it serve you?? Use the utinsil to feed your hungry stomach. The question of what the fork is made of seems irrelivent to me. The mind gets in the way of our path at every step as it asks questions after question. The next question would be what type of wood is it?? Why that specific type of wood?? Why not Sandlewood?? why isn't that type of wood used today. The reason for it made of Wood is that in the times of Guru sahib, maybe Plastic combs were very very rare, and the only material that was readily availble was wood. Wood also seems more natural. the only other logical choice is plastic, i don't know if Plastic was used in everyday household. I don't know that is just my guess. this is just my view onthis...i am not saying he/she shouldn't ask the question, to me it seems irrelevent.

aight so if it is proven that our 10th Nanak had more than one wife (which is very unlikely)...which he actually married. but lets assume that its is correct. Then how many of you will go out and marry more than one woman?? If you are taking this as soemthing you wish to implement into your life, then before you fall into the Kaam of marriage, Become Guru Gobind Singh ji, then decide. But it is difficult to become a Guru but easier to follow something which fuels your Vices. What is the purpose behind marrying more than one woman??? was our guru Full of Kaam...the Roop of our Khalsa, the Roop of God himself???? What purpose would it serve for our guru to marry more than one woman? In my opinion, Guru ji took them under his wing...some peple took it as he had wed them. That could not be the Case. Like Khalsa Soulja said, you can take it as a they were Nuns as Deciples along with Singhs and Singnies. that is just my views... Waheguru.

The descent is from one to three, and from three to many; but however far away you are from the One, you cannot step outside His edicts, His orders. No matter how much you disintegrate, how much divided you are in the many, He is present within you. If He is not, you cannot be. You may wander far, far away. You may go astray, but you cannot go so far that there is no point of return; there is no such point of no return. Therefore no person is unredeemable. Even if a person has fallen into the lowermost depths of sin, he is not beyond cure. In terms of spiritual knowledge, there is no illness that is incurable, that cannot be remedied. All spiritual diseases can be cured. You cannot go so far that you cannot return. Wherever you go, He is present. However far you go, it is He who takes you. Even in sin you need His help, because it is He who breathes within the sinner, it is He who beats within the sinner's heart. We can go far, very far. We can forget Him, but there is no way of losing Him. So when you ask, "How are we to seek Him?" your question is not correct, for you have never lost Him. Even if you wish to, you cannot lose Him for He is your very nature. Were He apart from you, you could have lost him, forgotten Him somewhere, but you cannot do this even by mistake, because He is you. Then what happens? You merely forget. There is also a way to forget oneself. Man can forget himself, forget his very nature. And yet his nature stands within him. I have a friend. He is a lawyer, but a more forgetful person is hard to find. He forgets almost everything. On occasions he even forgets whom he was representing in court, who had engaged him to fight the case. But he is a very important lawyer. Once he had to go to another town to fight a case. When he reached there he found to his horror that he had forgotten the client's name. He sent a telegram to his secretary, "What is his name?" The secretary wired back the lawyer's name thinking he had forgotten that this time. There is every possibility of forgetting one's own self also. The whole world is proof that one's own self can be forgotten. And what is the way to forget? The way to forget is the same as the way to remember. How can forgetfulness be remedied? By meditation! When you become too much object-oriented, you forget yourself. For through concentration alone one remembers, and through concentration alone one forgets. Wherever you apply your attention, that is what comes to mind. Whatever you remove your attention from is what you forget. When your attention is directed towards an object, your concentration shifts to the object and illuminates it. You begin to see the world and you forget your own self. You are so enrapt in what you see that you are lost to yourself. The only one way to get out of this and awaken is not be so absorbed in viewing. However beautiful or enchanting the object, shake yourself into remembering yourself. But you are bound to forget reality. Even when you go to see a movie you forget the simple reality that it is only an empty screen in front of you, that the film is merely a play of light and shadow. People cry in the theater over the tragedy on stage. When you see them after the show you would imagine someone in their family had died. If it is an action film, they sit upright in their chairs, ready to fling themselves into the action, into the fray. And it is not only the simple-minded who forget themselves; even intellictuals get carried away. There is just such an incident in the life of Ishmarchand, who was a great intellectual in his time. He was given the title of Vidyasagar, Ocean of Knowledge. Once he went to see a play in which there was a character who was supposed to be a rogue, a libertine. He harassed people in many different ways, like waylaying a woman and pestering her. Ismarchand was the honored guest, so he was seated in the front row. He became so angry he jumped onto the stage, took off his shoe and began beating the actor with it. The actor turned out to be wiser than Ishmarchand. He took the shoe in his hand and holding it to his heart said, "I shall not return this shoe to you, for it is the highest prize I could ever receive for my acting. Never before has anyone been so overpowered by my skill." Vidyasagar later regretted his mistake. He could not understand how he got so involved with the play. He also never got his shoe back. Whenever something seizes your attention so intensely, you commit this same mistake. In the course of time you forget the seer and the object begins to mean everything to you. When this happens you lose yourself in the mirage, you go astray. If this habit becomes deeply ingrained in you, everything you see becomes real for you. This is why dreams seem true, just because of this habit. Whatever you see seems true to you. Dreams appear true when you sleep. In the morning you discover they were not. Again when you sleep, dreams look true again... and in the morning you realize they were false. This goes on and on. If someone comes to kill you in the dream you scream and your sleep is broken. You awaken and find your heart beating faster. If someone dies in a dream you cry. You wake up in the morning and find the pillow wet with your tears. How many times have you dreamed? Yet you forget that a dream is a dream in the course of the next twelve hours. How is it possible? It is because you have developed a habit of taking everything you see as true. There is an old tantric method for this. Unless you know the dream to be false while it is in progress, you will never be able to know that the world is false. This is the reverse of what we know. We still believe samsara to be real; therefore even dreams appear real. Tantra says that unless you realize dreams to be false while they are happening you will never understand the ephemeral quality of maya. Tantra has evolved very subtle methods to know a dream to be a dream, and not reality. You may experiment with this. Decide on something before you fall asleep: for example, decide to raise your left hand with a jerk. Or decide to put your palm over your eye as soon as you begin to dream. You will have to practice this auto-suggestion every night for three months before falling asleep. At the end of that time or sooner, if you do it very regularly, your remembrance will become so intense that it penetrates your unconscious. Then as soon as you begin to dream, your left arm will shoot up with a jerk, or your palm will cover your eyes -- whatever you have practiced. As soon as this happens, it will come to you that this is a dream, for these two are connected in your auto-suggestion. Another tantric method: whatever you see in your dream, concentrate your attention on one object. Let's say you see a marketplace. There are lines of shops loaded with various articles and many people are moving about. Now focus your attention on something, perhaps on one shop. You will be astonished to find that as soon as you fix your attention on this one shop, the shop disappears -- because it was never there. Then fix your gaze on other things one by one and you will find them all disappearing in the same manner. If you become adept at watching dreams, dreams will be lost. As soon as dreams are lost, you go into meditation even in sleep; you reach samadhi. Begin with dreams and you find that the whole world is a dream. The world is a dream seen with open eyes because our habits die hard -- we get involved in the things we see. This involvement is so intense that we forget ourselves, forget the observer. Our consciousness works in only one direction. Gurdjieff used to tell his disciples, "When the arrow of your consciousness becomes double-pointed, when your consciousness begins to flower at both ends, you will become an enlightened being." Gurdjieff's efforts in directing his disciples were all to this end. "When you look at someone, look at him, but also keep trying to look at your own self: 'I am looking, I am the observer.' Then you are sharpening the other edge of the arrow of your consciousness. One end is directed towards the object you see; the other points toward you, the seer." Here you all sit listening to me, and you have lost yourselves in me while listening. You forget the listener entirely -- but then you err. The listener should also be remembered while listening. So as I sit here talking to you and you sit there listening, you are also conscious of the fact that 'I am listening'. When you go beyond the listener, a transcendence occurs. The witness is born. As soon as the witness is born, the person steps from the many into the three. You have reached the confluence of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Then it is easy to merge into the One from the three, for it is only one more step forward. Similarly, the confluence of great rivers is considered auspicious. Prayag is a unique pilgrimage place because of the confluence of three rivers. Two rivers can be seen, the Ganges and the Yamuna, but the third, Saraswati, lies underground and cannot be seen. Whenever you focus your attention on something there are two elements: the subject, you, and the object, what you are observing. These are both apparent, but the connection between the two cannot be seen. This is symbolized by the river Saraswati at Prayag. However, all three rivers meet at Prayag, and they naturally become one.

i don't undestand how that experience can make you fall from his grace, unless the EGO inerveened????? I mean Life flashing in front of your eyes is a bad thing???

if you have a issue which prevents u from living in this world thru the norm of society...that can be corrected by medical practices. Then what is the hold up.

its very possible that the Anhad naad is the naad of OMkar....the unstruck sound....which is cojoined with silence...

hahahhha no veer, definelty not an order.....it just my view on ur question...that perhaps the Akal mantra is Silence. Akal is beyond Time, and only Silence is that which can be used in Time-lessness. All Verbal Mantras repeated Lead you into Silence. That which begins with the mind, must not end in the mind If so then it has gotten you no where. To fall into silence is to fall into timelessness. but i usually have no idea what i talk about either, sorry i just ramble on, i hope someone else can give u a good answer. waheguru

Brahmgiani ke Gutt Brahmgiani Janay

is it really that big of a deal...i mean seirously...Take the REason behind the Comb, take the direction to which the arrow is pointing towards, don't grab hold of the arrow.

Silence

" HE AND ONLY HE IS THE TRUE LORD. HE IS TRUTH -- SATNAM. HE IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE. THOUGH ALL VANISH HIS REALITY WILL NEVER LEAVE. HE CREATED MAYA -- THINGS OF VARIOUS COLORS AND EMOTIONS AND DISPOSITIONS. HE CREATES ALL THINGS AND WATCHING OVER THEM, HE ALSO GIVES THEM GREATNESS. What a wonderful thing Nanak has said. He says God makes the creation, and having made it, He looks at it, just as a painter paints a picture, then steps back a little to view his work. He observes it closely, he steps to the right and looks, steps to the left and looks again. Then he views it from a distance, then he takes it up to the window to scrutinize it in the light and in shadow. He examines it in a thousand ways, as does a sculptor. HE CREATES ALL THINGS AND WATCHING OVER THEM, HE ALSO GIVES THEM GREATNESS. Thus He gives prominence and importance to His creation. So God is not against samsara or else why should He create it? Nor is he maya's enemy, or why should He bother with it? So the difficulty encountered by logic had no ground with the devotee. Nanak says not only does He create but He admires His creation and looks at it exultantly, thus giving it honor and importance. Remember, God has created you and having created you he has examined you from all sides, and He is still looking at you constantly as a part of His own handiwork, giving you dignity and importance; and on its own all sin will fade away from your life. If you remember this you will move about as a creation of His. You will speak and hear, fully conscious of the fact that you are His creation. In all your dealings you will be conscious of the fact that you are His and He is looking after you all the time. He watches over you constantly. He provides you with comfort and care. He looks at you lovingly, again and again. He never tires of looking at you. He is pleased with you for it is He who has made you. He is neither disappointed nor disheartened by your ways or else He could destroy you so easily. No matter how bad and sinful you become, His flame of hope for you never burns out. No matter how far you wander away from Him, no matter how completely you forget Him and turn your back on Him, His loving gaze is still fixed on you. For He knows that if not today, tomorrow you are sure to return. Sooner or later the prodigal must return, his coming back is certain, for the further you go away from Him the more unhappy you will become, like a little child who has run away from home. A little child, barely four years old, ran away from home. He took a small bundle of clothes and set out. A policeman found him going back and forth along the side of the road a number of times. He approached him, thinking he needed help, and asked, "Where do you want to go? Where have you come from?" The child said, "I have run away from home but Mother always said not to cross the road, but to stay on this side. Now I don't know what to do, since I can't cross over." How far can a small child stray? Even if he does, Mommy has always set a limit and how can he disobey her? How far will you wander from God? Even if you are angry with Him for some reason, you will keep shuttling between home and the road crossing. How far can you go and where will you go? Wherever you roam it is within His boundaries. Wherever you are will be within Him. Your anger is the anger of a little child; it is nothing but a part of love. He is never displeased by your displeasure. Nanak says: He gives you importance and glorified you. What He has created He surveys, and He likes what He surveys. "

LMAO....hahah i actually remember doing this...i was in Kanayda (thas canada for u slow folks ) about 5 years ago for my massi's wedding, my mom gave me 5 dollars to give to baba ji, i also had a dollar in pocket. so obviously i gave the 1 dollar and kept the 5...but as i bent down to bow my head, without realizing i bent down too far and hit my head on the Golakh... :cry: ...i guess waheguru has his own ways to teach people...after that i never did it again... just thought i'd share it with u folks...

bro, dont' take the literal meaning of being Lit. The Moon is being Lit by the rays of the sun. As is the Candle being lit by fire. The wick in the candle does not have its own fire, but it must be lit by another source. The moon(candle) is being a lamp, the source is the Sun(fire). hope this helps

HE ALONE CAN KNOW HIMSELF, AND ONLY THE RAREST CAN DESCRIBE HIM; HE BEQUEATHS THE QUALITY OF HIS STATE TO WHOMEVER HE CHOOSES. NANAK SAYS, HE IS THE KING OF KINGS. One last priceless thing in this sutra. Dhun-Nun was an Egyptian fakir. When he realized God he heard a voice in the skies which said, "Dhun Nun, before you set out in search of Me, I had already chosen you. Had I not, you would never have set out in search of Me." Nanak says that He ordains the one He chooses with the quality to sing His praise. The fact is, you set out to seek Him only when He has knocked at your door. How can you set out on this tremendous quest all by yourself? How can you arrive at the idea of the quest, how can you acquire His remembrance, how can His praise be born within you, if He does not will it? Then no matter how long it takes in the quest, the fact is that He has already chosen you. Your search has begun; He has already entered into your life. He has awakened the thirst within you and Nanak says: It is He alone who awakens the thirst for Him. Nanak's method is: leave all to Him. Keep nothing in your hands because the arrogance of the ego can arise very subtly. You may begin to say, "I am a seeker, I am in quest of God." But Nanak, so that this I does not take root anywhere, says it is His grace that confers the quality to sing His praise. We can only sing Your praise if You will us to do so. How can we sing Your praise without Your direction? We cannot even raise our eyes towards You unless You give support to our vision. Our feet can never walk along Your path unless You direct them. We cannot think of You, or dream of You, or ponder over You, unless You have already chosen us. Nanak plucks out all roots of the ego. Where ego is not, there His doors open to us; where ego is not, the resonance of Omkar starts on its own. Only because of the tumult and noise of your ego, can you not hear the faint resonance within.

" It is rather intricate and complicated. There are only two systems of sadhana -- of spiritual practice. The basis of one system is resolve, and that of the other is surrender. Both lead to the same goal but they are diametrically the opposite of each other. The methods of Mahavir and Patanjali and Gorakh are based on resolve, on effort. All life-energy is devoted to the effort. When there is absolutely no energy remaining outside that effort, when you have given yourself up to it wholly, that very day the event will occur; when you have left nothing for yourself, your resolve will be complete and perfect. Nanak, Meera and Chaitanya have followed the second path, the way of surrender. It is entirely different; the seeker believes that nothing happens through one's own effort -- only through His grace do we achieve. Now this does not mean you make no effort, but don't put too much faith in your prowess. Try you must, but remember that the outcome will happen only through His grace. This is very, very important. If you rely only on your own labors, you will strengthen your ego. Therefore it is easy for a yogi to be proud, because he begins to believe that things are happening because of him. Once this ego develops it is very difficult to be rid of it. It is easier to be rid of the arrogance of wealth, it is not difficult to renounce the pride of position, but it is very difficult to be rid of the ego of one's own endeavors. There is every possibility of the seeker feeling that whatever is happening is because of him; the I becomes primary and God secondary. Because of this danger, Mahavir, Patanjali, Gorakh and others who follow this path lay great stress on the annihilation of the ego. Make the effort, put your all into it, but renounce your ego is what they stress so emphatically. If the ego functions along with the effort, it will get stronger and stronger. Then you feel in whatever you do, I am doing it: I have done japa, I have done penance, I have attained occult powers. And if this arrogance is not eradicated in good time, you will have opened many doors but not the last. All your efforts will have been in vain. Therefore, Nanak says: Try with all your might, but remember, His grace alone can bring about the happening. With this precaution, the risk in the method of resolve is removed. But there is a different risk in the path of surrender, which arises at the very beginning. The danger is in feeling that there is no need to do anything. If the happening occurs only through His grace, what can we do? It becomes an excuse for not doing anything. So you remain involved in all the useless daily activities of life. You may assume it is not yet His will that you should set out on this path -- and so you wait. Meanwhile you indulge in all that is most contemptible in life; you wander in the maze of the material world. Thus the danger in the path of surrender lies at the very onset -- you might become lost in laziness and inertia. So try you must in the fullest measure, while remembering that the fruit of the endeavor is attained only through His grace. Therefore Nanak repeats over and over: His grace showers only on those within the gaze of His compassionate vision. On whom does this compassion descend but those who prepare themselves for it through their efforts? Understand that in everyday life the meaning of a compassionate look is quite different. Does He too show partiality? Is He kind to His own but lets the rest be? Does He select a few to shower with His grace while He leaves others to suffer? We cannot associate God with such injustices. Things would become meaningless if a sinner might receive His grace while a saint is deprived of it. There would be no sense in doing anything. No, this is not the meaning of the compassionate look. It is not that He chooses someone that suits His whim or fancy, or that He favors those who flatter and sing His praises. His grace showers on all, but there are some who have turned their pots upside down, so that they never get filled. If your pot is upright, it is bound to be filled. And don't imagine that your upright pot caused the grace to shower! Grace showers all the time. Nanak says the filling takes place by His compassion, but some effort you have to make -- by placing your vessel in the proper position to receive. And you will have to see that there are no cracks or holes in it, that it is not lying upside down or slanting so that the grace cannot reach the mouth of your vessel and enter it. His grace pours on everyone incessantly. It is you who are not standing upright to receive it or in your twisting and turning, it slides off you. There is an apparent contradiction: if you are deprived of grace you have only yourself to blame, but if you attain grace it is only because of Him. You attain through Him, lose through your own self. When following the path of surrender it is imperative to remember that if I am losing, it is I who am wrong; if I am gaining, it is entirely by His grace. This way the ego cannot be fattened, because there is no space within for it to expand -- or even to exist. He who has no ego finds that God is within him. "

I Agree ....well said sis...

" There is no end to His grandeur. Whatever we say about it is so little as to betray our utter incompetence. Rabindranath Tagore lay on his deathbed. An old friend sitting by his side said to him, "You can leave this world satisfied, you have accomplished whatever you wanted to do. You have attained great respect, you wrote many songs, and the whole world knows you as the divine bard. Really nothing is left undone." Rabindranath opened his eyes, looked sadly at his friend and said, "Don't say such things. I was just telling God that all I wanted to sing is still unsung. What I wanted to say is still unsaid. My whole life has been spent merely tuning my instrument!" He felt he had not yet begun to sing His praise and already the moment to leave had arrived. Rabindranath had written six thousand songs, all in praise of God. Yet he felt he hadn't sung a single word of His glory. Nanak also says the same thing and this is the experience of all the rishis who have known. Whatever is said about Him is only like adjusting the instrument; His song can never be sung. Who will sing it? How can one limited personality contain the boundless expanse? How can you hold the skies in your fist? All our efforts prove futile and only after trying totally can we realize our incompetence. Only when you realize how insignificant you are can the understanding of His greatness take root. Fools always think themselves great; wise men are aware of their smallness. As understanding increases the feeling of being too small, too insignificant, parallels the sense of His vastness and all-pervading presence. A moment comes in this quest when you are completely lost, and only He remains. The speaker is lost -- what is there to say? Only he remains: His glory, His grandeur, His endless resonance. The seer is lost; only the seen remains. You are extinct, completely annihilated; then who will give tidings of Him? Whatever discussions men have had about God have been hopeless. When a tremendous event occurs we are struck dumb; when a person reaches God he becomes speechless. Not only is speech lost, but the very breath stops. You stop completely at the moment of knowing Him: neither thoughts move, nor words, nor breath, nor does the heart beat. Even a single heartbeat would deprive you of His sight, that slight trembling can produce a separation. "

You are telling me just because their names were Khan and not Singhs, they were not the Sikhs of our guru??? Obviously they risked their lives as would have any Sikh for the GURU. There isn't a difference between a Singh and a Sikh. They had to walk thru the Mud to carry our Guru across, they themselves were not afraid to get dirty. When walking thru the mud they got dirty, but they did not drown in that mud. There isn't a Quote in the SGGS about lying under certain Circumstances as far as i know. NOw tell me this if the Mogul Armies had asked the 2 Khan's or Sikhs (however you wish to know them as) who they were carrying on their shoulders. In your views what should have they said?? That he is that Guru that the 1000's of you are looking for?? Should they should have Sacrifsed the Truth??? should they have fought against those Armies? Would that have been a Wise decision? Lying is like placing a coat of Salt over suger to protect what is within that coat. I am not saying what i have said is final nor do i say that it OK to lie. I simply presented MY views on this issue from what I have undestood. What i have said can be very dangerous to those who do not understand what i am trying to say. So If you don't understand what i have said, then ignore it...because i cant explain it any better than i have. So don't take my word for it, if you want to know about lying under certain circumstances as a Sant or a Giani ro someone who can explain it in better terms.