BhagatSingh

You are hearing it bro. Keep up the Bhagati. I have switched to reading Gurmukhi almost entirely, and I use the Mahan Kosh to construct the meaning of the words. Occasionally taking helping from freed Kote wala teeka and sometimes from Prof Sahib Singh's teeka. I was finding a lot of problems with the English translation once I got to a certain depth hence why I switched. Check out srigranth.org for all these documents.

I think Sant Namdev ji's shabad is pretty self explanatory. It is Parmatma who has taken birth in Devaki's house as Sri Krishna. I can understand that you don't agree but that is what Sant Namdev ji is saying.

Yes that shabad is by Sant Namdev ji, it says so in the shabad. Which part of this shabad didn't you understand? The one quoted above it is by Guru Arjan Dev ji.

Stopped reading the second article at "Brahminism". The first article is good: http://ramblingsofasikh.blogspot.ca/2012/01/how-far-and-in-what-ways-did-british.html I think it is largely accurate. This doesn't sound right. Arya Smaj didn't give a hoot about who was Hindu as they hated the word, that's why they called themselves Arya Smaj. To read more about the Arya Smaj-Sikh conflict, check this article by Dr. Ganda Singh. http://sikhinstitute.org/jan_2007/3-gansi.htm Prior to British Raj, and even prior to Maharaja Ranjit Singh there weren't two communities. There was no word "sikh" that was unique to the sikhs of ten gurus. The word "sikh" was used for anyone who was under a guru. For example, just before Guru Nanak came, there was a Brahmin Guru Ramanand, who preached pretty much the same thing ie Bhagati. Guru Ramanand passed his ideals to his sikhs ie Ravidas, Sain, Pipa, Kabir. These are the same sikhs whose bani was added into Guru Granth Sahib, along with Guru Ramanand, by Guru Arjan Dev ji (additionally, there are approximately 11 authors that contributed to Guru Granth that are Brahmin). They would not be considered sikh today by the new definition, ie, one who follows 10 gurus. There were sikhs who came before the 10 gurusm, and there were sikhs who were not the followers of 10 gurus but followed other gurus in other parts of India. You see. The house of Nanak was exactly that, Nanak da ghar, and those who followed him were Nanak Panthi. And I believe this was the exclusive identifier, uptill Guru Gobind Singh ji, that separated Guru Nanak's sikhs from say that of Chaitanya MahaPrabhu's sikhs. At this point it gets too complicated to discuss but the word sikh never exclusively identified anyone from Nanak's house, until Singh Sabha. Thus Sikhs never faced the made up boa constrictor that was Britsh propaganda. The fact is that it was British who essentially maligned the Brahmins, because Brahmins were the largest resistance to them in the intellectual department. The Singh Sabha Sikhs basically bought into their propaganda and started quote mining verses from Guru Granth Sahib which contained criticisms of certain brahmins. These verses from GGS were part of a larger crticism of many communities in India. Not only that but it was rather a criticism of Elitism not of Brahmins particularly. But it was taken out of context as a stand against Brahmin teachings, when it was never the case (see Guru Ramanand, his sikhs and the other Brahmin authors of Guru Granth Sahib).

Think of ritual as a space rather than an act like a computer table, or a kitchen. Once you start a ritual you create a space that is separate from other activities of your life. This allows you to focus on what you do in that space rather than be distracted by entangled spaces or so-called multitasking. I was reading Manu Smriti one day, I have only read a little bit but in the part I was reading, Rishi Manu says, 51. Having collected as much food as is required (from several persons), and having announced it without guile to his teacher, let him eat, turning his face towards the east, and having purified himself by sipping water. 52. (His meal will procure) long life, if he eats facing the east [north?]; fame, if he turns to the south; prosperity, if he turns to the west; truthfulness, if he faces the east. 53. Let a twice-born man always eat his food with concentrated mind, after performing an ablution; and after he has eaten, let him duly cleanse himself with water and sprinkle the cavities (of his head). 54. Let him always worship his food, and eat it without contempt; when he sees it, let him rejoice, show a pleased face, and pray that he may always obtain it. 55. Food, that is always worshipped, gives strength and manly vigour; but eaten irreverently, it destroys them both. You start by performing a serious of actions and you end by performing another series of actions, this creates a space in between where you do nothing but eat. Probably the best way anyone can eat. Absolutely brilliant. Anyways, Brahmgyanis don't have any issues with rituals. They do what is instructed to them by Sri Hari. If that means doing havan, then so be it. So you cannot answer the Op's question with "Brahmgyanis are too good for rituals", they maybe but they might still do them as you admit yourself (you provided one reason, to uphold dharmic values). Op's question requires that we look for any evidence that is available of such an event. How do we get this evidence is the question. I believe it's called Ardhnarishwar, the half-woman lord. It's Shiv and Shakti together. Not sure you can separate them into kaal and akaal since Shiv ji is both kaal and akaal in Shaivism, he is Mahakaal.

Sat, Are you feeling angry? or Are you expressing it? Where is the emotion rooted in the body?

N30 Singh, Thanks that whole katha was awesome! Went through it twice as it was good revision of the basics. How are you relating this to Baba Deep Singh still fighting with his head cut off? Wouldn't he need to be taken care of if he went into a deep samadhi during battle? Coming back to: This is describing all the customary rituals they go through before battle. I don't think any of these are metaphorical. akhand path, havan and kangana bandhana. If havan is a metaphor, isn't akhand path, and kangan also a metaphor? To me, this is men doing their rituals to prepare their body and mind to fight. Such rituals also existed in the hunter-gatherer societies, in other forms. India seems to have retained a lot of the very very old traditions through a strict practice of oral tradition, and having certain intelligent men devote their lives to only the practice of such rituals (iie. pandits who then passed them on to the next generation before they departed). I recall hearing about Guru Gobind Singh ji doing a Havan at Naina Devi the day before Vaisakhi. Over at Anandpur Sahib, they say your pilgrimage is not complete till you have been to Naina Devi as well.

Yeah that makes sense, the same is stated in this book: http://books.google.ca/books?id=Ua-E20uyH9IC&pg=RA1-PA133&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false It references to Bhagvad Puran where Prehlaad talks about the nine limbs of Bhagati. The author goes onto describe them further. So Brahmgiani don't do simran or kirtan, etc?

Ok I see. Well as far as I know, in a havan, the materials are offered to God with the fire as the transport. They are carried and not "burnt to ashes" like the phenomenon of undesired mental activity slowly dissolving in simran. When the materials are placed in the fire, it is said that Agni Dev Himself takes them to whichever God they are intended for. Does gurbani differentiate between sargun and nirgun rituals?

Mithar, Well he made copies of Guru Granth Sahib after he was done fighting under Banda Bahadur... Jaikara, Even some mainstream Sikhs do havan so I wouldn't be surprised if the tradition dates back to puratan Singhs. N30Singh, what do you mean? and where did you get this metaphor from?

My bad it is ਕਹਿ instead of ਕਿਹ or ਕਿਹਾ. Thanks for pointing that out.

Don't mention it. I think the rule is to add a ੇ at the end of the verb. ਪੁੱਛ becomes ਪੁੱਛੇ, ਕਰ becomes ਕਰੇ, are simple examples. ਕਿਹ becomes ਕਹੇ is a bit more complex. If there are any more complex verbs that you have in mind, let me know.

ਗੋਰਾ/gora is the equivalent of "white" in English. Is "white" a slur towards whites? ਜਾਉਂਦਾ is the correct spelling. ਜਾਂਦਾ is like saying gona, instead of going to. ਕਿਹਾ and ਕਹੇ is correct. ਕਹਿ is used in Guru Granth Sahib, and it means the same thing as ਕਹੇ.

Lucky ji, A sikh practices bhagati yog, which includes dhyan of a personal God. ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਰਾਵੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ Day and night he enjoys Bhagati Yog. A sikh is a yogi if he is into meditating a lot, as you and I are. Let's clear up the terms here. Yog is the science of union of individual consciousness with the Ultimate Consciousness. Basically anything to do with meditation will be talked about under the heading of "Yog". Gurmat is the mat, teachings/ideology, of a guru. Gurmat is the vessel through which Yog is passed on to the sikh, as gur parsad. Gurmat also has other stuff specific to the guru who is teaching and specific to the sikhs to whom the teachings are aimed at. So you can see, it makes literally no sense to label anahat, dhyan, union as yogic or gurmat. These are principles that come under "Yog" that are taught to us by Guru Granth Sahib. Hope that made sense.

Well ਸ਼ਾਹ (ਸ਼ਾਹਾਂ) would be written as Shah. Not sure why they put an h at the end of Sulla. I would go without the ਹ but I could be wrong there. ਗੋਰਾ means fair-skinned. It's not slang and can be used to describe anyone who is fair-skinned.

And what is that difference Lucky ji?

I think the plural of ਸੁੱਲਾ is ਸੁੱਲੇ. Wouldn't the plural of ਸੁੱਲਾਹ would be ਸੁੱਲਾਹਾਂ? Anyway, is this سُلّاه the official spelling of it? I didn't know it was an actual word.

Well the way I see it is that during meditation you are might see, hear, taste, smell, etc. Your body might also shake, shiver and distort. Your mind might also do various things, recall super old memories or even stuff hidden deep in the unconscious. You might also go through various emotional states. All of this is part of meditation. I don't think a linear model can be used here. Some enlightened people may not even experience any of this, others may not even meditate. Anahad means unstruck. To me it is neither a tone nor a melody. The principle of Anhad is outlined very clearly by answer to this Zen Koan "If you two hands clapping make a sound, what is the sound of one hand clapping?" This is what Bhai Randhir Singh ji is talking about in his book as well. This kind of Anahat is not a sound or music, it is simply the depth of consciousness. When the atma is detached from the body, mind and world and is resting in its own nature. Free from distraction and turbulence and in the state of utmost Sehaj. That said, it might hear sounds and music, and taste things along the way, and may continue to hear and taste even in Sehaj. So Anahad in itself is simply deep peace, but it may involve various sensations. This makes no sense. Yog is taught in Gurmat. That's interesting, maybe you are tasting the sweetness of patassey because that's what you associate with amrit.

Although your version is fine. This is how I would normally say it ਮਾਫ਼ ਕਰਿਉ ਜੀ, ਮੈਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਨਹੀਂ l No, that doesn't make sense. It should be ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਸੀ l I did not understand. Yes, ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ - Translates to "(whatever you just said), I did not understand it" This is the way to say "I don't understand". ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਮਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਈ l I don't understand. While this is technically saying is "I do not understand", it is also hinting at a habit of not understanding. Same with ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਸੀ l I did not understand it before. I had a habit of not understanding it. "Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying." ਮੁਆਫ਼ ਕਰਿਉ ਜੀ, ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਤੁਸੀ ਕੀ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੈ l You can also say ਮੈਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝ ਆ ਰਿਹਾ ਤੁਸੀ ਕੀ ਕਹ ਰਹੇ ਹੋ l It's slightly different though but both work for respected folks and very polite.

They probably use two "L", as in sulla instead of sulah. Take this to mean that in Punjabi there will be an ੱ over ਸ and ਲ. But any ways ਸੁੱਲਾ is slang for ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ. Bring your other question to this thread as well.

Lucky ji, Have you heard the ring in your ears like how Sumeet describes it? Is that different from anahat shabad? Lol where were you hoping to hear from me? Sumeet, Yes but how did you you do it?

Lol. How do you propose we accomplish it?

Lucky, What is your experience and understanding of the third eye opening, kundalini awakening, anhad shabad and dasam duar?

1 subject 2 object 3 verb Why do you say that?

Guru's shabad is His teachings. There is the shabad, the said, and then there is the anhad shabad, the unsaid. The former is the sound, word and meaning, and the latter is the underlying silence and profundity. Bani is pretty much synonymous with Guru's shabad. Tell me about the Chakras, How do you meditate on them? What do they feel like? Do they invoke any emotions, images, or internal dialogue?