dalsingh101

All it shows is one football hooligan type facing down a combination of Muslims and Left wing idiots. The rest is of a bunch of lightweight pakis hanging around with some burly kalay acting hard knowing they outnumber the hooligans 10-1 and displaying their usual pack mentality. Some of the people who were attacked by Pakis were innocent bystanders. All the pakis did were to show what a liability they are to this country and probably swelled the ranks of BNP supporters.

You seem to be playing down the contribution of white racists in all this scenario. Yes there are issues with Islamic fundamentalists, but for white supremacists to jump on that bandwagon to try and get a foot in is just opportunism. Most of those skinhead types wouldn't know the difference between a Sikh or Muslim. We are all pakis in their eyes.

If people think Khalsa raj will fall from the sky without effort, planning and strong desire on the part of Sikhs, I have to question their grip on reality.

Raj would only come with military superiority and/or exceptional, prudent, globally visioned leadership. We haven't got any of that at the moment. Hell, we can barely run Gurdwaras and have no media presence. A lot of this hinges on leadership, which must be cultivated, encouraged and invested in. This doesn't appear to be happening either.

Finally, the belief in the whole premise of the Aquarius age goes against Sikh theology if Bhai Gurdas is anything to go by.

I don't think the translation is great but:

ਸਉਣ ਸਗੁਨ ਵੀਚਾਰਣੇ ਨਉ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਬਾਰਹ ਰਾਸਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ।

saun sagun veechaaranay nau grih baarah raasi veechaaraa|

The life led in the light of omens, the nine planets, the twelve signs of the zodiac;

ਕਾਮਣ ਟੂਣੇ ਅਉਸੀਆ ਕਣਸੋਈ ਪਾਸਾਰ ਪਸਾਰਾ ।

kaaman toonay auseeaa kanasoee paasaar pasaaraa|

Incantations, magic divination by lines and by the voice is all futile.

ਗਦਹੁ ਕੁਤੇ ਬਿਲੀਆ ਇਲ ਮਲਾਲੀ ਗਿਦੜ ਛਾਰਾ ।

gadahu kutay bileeaa il malaalee gidarh chhaaraa|

Cries of donkeys, dogs, cats, kites, blackbirds and jackals cannot control our lives.

ਨਾਰਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਛਿਕ ਪਦ ਹਿਡਕੀ ਵਰਤਾਰਾ ।

naari purakhu paanee agani chhik pad hidakee varataaraa|

It is superstitious to draw good or bad omens from meeting a widow, a bare headed man, water, fire, sneezing, breaking wind, hiccups;.

ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰ ਭਦ੍ਰਾ ਭਰਮ ਦਿਸਾ ਸੂਲ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੈਸਾਰਾ ।

diti vaar bhadraa bharam disaa sool sahasaa saisaaraa|

Lunar and week days, lucky-unlucky moments and going or not going in a particular direction

ਵਲਛਲ ਕਰਿ ਵਿਸਵਾਸ ਲਖ ਬਹੁ ਚੁਖੀ ਕਿਉ ਰਵੈ ਭਤਾਰਾ ।

valachhal kari visavaas|akh bahu chukhee kiu ravai bhataaraa|

If a women behaves like a prostitute and does every thing to please everybody, how can she be loved by her husband.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਰ ਉਤਾਰਾ ॥੮॥

guramukhi sukh dhalu paar utaaraa ॥8॥

The gurmukhs who reject all superstitions enjoy happiness with their Lord and get across the world-ocean.

I think the beginning you mention shows the anti fascist side. Then you can see some big white skinhead (in black teeshirt) railing up to them although the police are inbetween. Then essentially people are having little flare ups with the EDL/Casuals, who largely seem to be either running away, getting chitthur or jumping up and down like bunders proving just what a superior race they are........

Nice little video of some of what happened. You can see the goray running for their lives......

http://current.com/items/90662089_birmingh...reet-fights.htm

Whan I said "a Sikh warrior gorilla" , it wasn't an insult btw guys. It was more of a term of endearment. Whatever his views, I'm at least glad that he is trying to get youth away from a sedentary lifestyle and doing some physical activity.

People can argue with his viewpoint. The truth shall always emerge sooner or later.

Fair point. I must confess though. I grew up around some of those Off Licence wallay Sikhs. My first job was in a warehouse supplying most of the Panjabi owned Offies in London. I know most of the owners are straight forward, simple types. The common man from Panjab type thing. I have nothing against them.

When I was younger, they would sometimes impress me with the way the would defend their businesses from attacks...hehehehe

It all depends on how the Quranic verses are interpretated as I have said before the difference between Islam and the modern orwellian state is that even though there is much in the Quran that is open to abuse and misinterpretation, it still glorifies the one God, the same God that Baba Nanak glorifies. Between these two peoples there can be healthy enimity as there was in the past when the Afghans invaded and the Sikhs fought them tooth and nail.

What and we want to bring those good old days back do we? Look just because some people believe in God, it doesn't mean that they are incapable of the most horrendous atrocities. Open your eyes.

so what next then? we dont live in purely sikh countries. we can deter them, but if its what they want, what right do we have to force our beliefs on them? next we will have sikhs who work in tescos saying they cant touch meat packets or alcohol bottles or tobacco is not allowed within ten metres of every sikh. what is actually wrong with it? if it said in gurbani that we shouldnt supply, then fair enough, otherwise we have to be realistic.

That employment thing is a strong point. I mean, you don't get Muslims working the tills in Asda refusing to handle the Walls Pork sausages when people buy them.

But when I was talking, I was talking about Sikhs who go out to buy an Off License, where the whole aim is to sell booze (and fags). It is not just a small part of what else goes on their but the main purpose.

as for relations between sikhs and muslims in punjab, on a personal level i am sure many sikhs and muslims were friends. but on a community level, the majority of muslims supported the afghans everytime they invaded (even when the afghans treated them like shit) and mutilated khalsa soldiers left on battlefields during the anglo-sikh wars.

From what I read a small contingent of Afghans came to help fight the British but left quickly after it got hot.. Where did you get this info on mutilations from?

This thread is related to Piara singh padam's books. If you are interested to discuss

others open a new thread. Please do not turn this into a private chat thread.

Look whose talking. The man who turns every thread he jumps into, to a Kala Afghana one.

No problem Singh2. I will do what you have asked. Would be nice for you take your own advice in future. Lets leave it at that.

I found some of Fenech's work online BTW. I'm going to PM it to you as I don't want to promote him.

Its time to put away this hatred of other creeds and unite.

You ignore how these same creeds you want unity with, would have us wiped out if given the chance. What you advocate is classic case of jumping from the frying pan into a fire. Joining Islamists to fight white supremacists is a poor strategy. Think of something else.

The main issue here seems to be Sikhs inability to even visualise an independent, vibrant, strong society of their own, that includes a unique worldview. Instead we are talking about jumping into bed with x or y, trying to decide which lesser evil to join with. Did some of you consider that maybe we shouldn't align ourselves to either?

MJ

You are totally playing down the corporate experiences of Sikhs and Muslims in what you're saying and this takes much of the force of your point away.

Fact is that Sikhs experienced numerous invasions from Afghanistan, Persia, involving rape and pillage and the kidnapping of women and children for sale into slavery. I think Abdali alone invaded over half a dozen times! Sacred places of worship have been attacked including Harmandir Sahib by Nadir Shah. The relationship with the Moghuls went seriously downhill after Akhbar and involved the execution of nonviolent leaders like Guru Arjan Dev ji and the ninth master.

What I would say is that we seem to know little about the relationship between everyday Panjabi Muslims and Sikhs during all of this. Although these seemed to improve drastically under the benign rule of Maharajah Ranjit Singh, who took on and conclusively defeated the jihadists. Whatever the relationship between Muslims and Sikhs of the Panjab in the past, the events at partition, which was the result of BOTH Muslim aspirations and British mechanisms (and not just one of these as some may claim), says alot.

I would say that there was lot more than smouldering dislike going on. Many extant rahit namas give support for this.

He was a McLeodian chumcha. McLeod supervised his dissertation (i.e. the book).

Some people here seem to be admirers of McLeod. I'll leave them to it.

We should be like the lion Romans. The Romans invaded England and beat up these anglo what ever.

That was when jung was jung, involving bravery, physical strength and no space age technology when you can kill a whole force (plus innocent pindus) with a remote controlled missile firing drone like you were playing Xbox. lol

When did west Asia become Europe? mass migration of Asians into Asia because of their trickonology. Why has Turkey moved to Europe? is Iran next on their list.

What has this got to do with it? I was talking about potential forces working against Sikhs.

Turkey is a part of Europe because of the Ataturk inspired repositioning of that people. Plus they probably think that the Arabian block or caliphate aren't worth much and have a brighter future as Europeans. Plus they are white.

The Iran thing is another matter altogether. If the "Anglosphere" could get away with it, they would attack, but they are pretty preoccupied right now with Iraq, Afghanistan and the recession.

Israel might make a move, justifiable by the close proximity and open threats.

mass migration of Asians into Asia because of their trickonology.

???? Asians migrating to asia.....huh?

This hate of muslims is just something that goes with being part of the accepted society, a society thatb has been labelled psychotic and insane by psychologists such as erich fromm and RD Laing.

Are you suggesting the attitude towards Muslims is nothing whatsoever to do with historical and personal experiences of Sikhs?

Again this is British policy - divide and conquer. Keep cleaning their toilets.

I agree with you. But the notion that all who oppose this are natural bosom buddies is also false. You can have more than one force working against you at any single time....don't you know.

Thing with Niddar is that his size makes him look like he can fight. Plus he fits nicely into the whole image of the Sikh warrior for westerners.

I SERIOUSLY disagree with what I have been told is his interpretation of Sikhi but the guy looks like someone you would imagine on a battlefield a few centuries ago. It's a shame he has these sanatanist views.

That, I believe is his media appeal. A Sikh warrior gorilla.

Kelay anyone?

UK is the devils den. With all that bad karma of theirs, they won't let go of their British empire. You have White people leaving the UK in droves and the rest of the country doesn't want to work. 90% of the unemployed are Pakistanis or Indians who still think the British rule India. Move on and let the Island die a natural death.

Mate, I think you'd find the unemployment rate amongst Indians lower than average here. I don't know what makes you think all nonwhites don't want to work. In sections of the indigenous population you have long term unemployed families who have been out of work for YEARS, sometimes generations, who essentially live off the state. Panjabi SIkhs are especially hardworking here. As are many Polish people for instance.

Get your facts right.

You have to keep an eye on trends Tony. Just like many Muslims were not like they are now a few decades ago, and the community transformed, the same thing is happening with goray. I have a feeling these things go around in cycles.

I somewhat disagree with your suggestion that goray have become more tolerant though. Progress has been made but it is a fairly fragile one. I think legislation has made the racist ones more surreptitious in their hate. Fear of law has restrained the impulse to physically attack "asians". Once the mood swings here (which could happen the way things are going), they will be less restrained. Time will tell. I am not trying to apologise for sullay. I lived in East London which has more of them than many places. I know about the staunch anti Sikh types. But there are plenty of white towns in the Uk, where brown people do not go. If they did they are highly likely to be abused, verbaly and physically. They wouldn't care a monkeys if you was Sikh or Muslim. Most of our people are smart enough not to go to these places. That is why such people are off the radar for us. But don't forget these hitherto silent lumpen section of racists.

BTW, I have worked with both sides like you. Are you discounting the institutionlised racism that is part and parcel of the corporate world here?

Brother you seem to portray goray as some naive victims of sullay here. Don't be blind to actions of Anglo society. The fact that they have lied through their teeth and jumped into wars solely for resources such as oil can't be discounted. How many people have died abroad as a result of this? This includes many women and children, not just jihadis. The fact that they think that less than 200 soldiers dying over a good few years is shocking and totally discount the significantly larger amount of innocents killed on the other side shows you how they think. You are right to highlight the strong anti kafir sentiment in one society but you are wrong to play down the global imperialistic desires and drive for cultural hegemony from the other. Maybe if we had oil in the Panjab they would eyeing us up? Since they stripped Panjab of much of its removable wealth and assets after the Anglo-Sikh wars, I guess they have already had there way with us.

What I am trying to say is that the truth is a little bit more complicated than any "evil sullay and good ole Johnny English, unfairly at the receiving end" narrative. Whilst this may be a partial factor, the greater truth is somewhat larger than this and involves events outside of this island also. In my opinion.

What they are doing abroad helps the kuttarh sulla cause more than any preaching. They are not innocent in all of this. They have the blood of masoom bunday on their hands too, they are just really good at playing it down and hiding it. Don't help them do this. Both sides need condemning.

No offence intended to anyone people.

Tony I get what you are saying but why ignore the threat from the other side. Fact is, there has been an element of gora society that has deeply rooted hatred for people like us here in the UK too. Just because they had been forced to keep their heads down for a few decades because of actions in the 70s/80s, doesn't mean they evaporated into thin air. They were biding their time waiting for an opportunity to return.

Are you old enough to remember these days?

HSD

Good point.

Post #19

Dude don't get it twisted. Sikhs have suffered horrendous/barbaric attacks from Muslims themselves. You seem to view Islamic history with rose tinted glasses. Believe you me, it doesn't seem too civilised/spiritual when you are on the receiving end of nutjob, rapist, slave trading jihadis. Not that my ancestors didn't kick their butts....but still.

It's like I said before. None of you come out of all of this with clean hands. Islamo fascists or Mr. whitey supremacist. Both different sides of the same coin.

because as Dalsingh has correctly observed only the muslims can oppose them now. because once the muslims are gone then we will be next because in the grand view this is a war against forces that are against the evolution and elevation of the human race.

Conversely if the Islamo nutjobs get the better of whitey. I'm sure we'll be next on their list.

Fateh Kaljug.

As a Sikh you should know that Muslims have always been the greatest enemies of Sikhi and cannot be trusted.

And goray can be trusted? They destroyed Sikh sovereignity and weakened us. The reason we have been getting kicked about so much over the last 60 years or so is because of this.

I want Britain to stop interfering in foreign affairs, I also want them to stop sending money to Islamic countries so that they fall apart of their own accord and realise that Islam is the reason for their failures and not Whitey, and I want them to prevent immigration of Muslims who believe in the kind of crap that many Muslims in the UK seem to believe.

You know we have to be careful that we don't push all sullay into the arms of Al Qaeda by supporting ill conceived adventerous WASP actions. My point is that they themselves have played a large part in helping the Islamist cause through their own stupidity. They've given sullay a cause through their own immoral actions.

I recall that no to long ago, in Birmingham again, there were Muslims burning the British flag. Yet the media mentioned it in passing if at all. I also remember sulleh partying on the streets in Birmingham (Acocks Green in particular) and praising Osama when 9/11 happened, yet the media chose to ignore it. Why are these events not worthy of being reported as racism? Why is whitey only capable of being racist?

That is a reputation they have given themselves. I grew up in the times when the union flag was a symbol of hatred and racism. I'm not surprised the flag gets it to be honest. Those incidents you are describing are akin to some Sikhs celebrating the assassination of Indira Gandhi in S'hall. Pictures of which were broadcast all over India.

By the by, I find Unite Against Fascism as racist as the people they are fighting against because they do not seem to believe that us poor ignorant mud people are capable of racism ourselves. When sullay do it, it's just because the colonials are unhappy with the Big White Bossman and not because they are capable of discrimination and prejudice (which is the sole prerogative of whitey). Similarly, Big White Bossman needs to send money to the poor brown people who are obviously too unintelligent to be expected to run a country themselves.

Man, you are getting into the whole topic of the global economic system put down by whitey to the detriment of the so-called "third world". Plus how many times have these people interfered with how countries are run by installing their own chumchay as leaders.

They are ones who have disturbed the Islamo nutjob hornets nest. Who is going to put them in check? If a bunch of yobbo goray get done, I don't see why we should care. Given the chance the same jerks would probably come into a Sikh area and take the pishaab.

Anyway that is the thing with white supremacism. They just like to have everything their way. The colonial experience has drummed that into them.

What is sad is that it looks like Muslims are the only ones that can seriously challenge them now.

Anyway, I don't see the point of the last post. It has exactly the same pictures as the link I provided in the first post of this thread?

Be cool.

D.

I'm no fan of Islam but still. Whitey trying to resurrect their glory empire days and nicking resources by out right lying (WMDs anyone) isn't helping. That is what the idiots end up doing. Mobilising Muslims with their stupid ideas/policies.

As a Sikh you should know just how damaging their interference can be. Look at how they caused a chain of events that led to partition. Prior to their interfering Panjab was a prosperous united place. The sullay were well integrated and even converting to Sikhism.