dalsingh101

ahem. are we alone in that? we have this idea that we have to be perfect before we can do anything. but everyone's idea of what this level we have to reach is different. i'm not saying what you mentioned is a good thing, but having some fundamentalist vision of khalistan being perfect with no crime, no bigots, no idiots, will never be true. not everyone in the panth has been perfect throughout history, but no one says lets ditch sikhi as we're rubbish at it.

HSD

I'm not even looking for perfection. I'm just looking for a reasonable portion of people having level heads. My point was that we do not have the leadership for Khalsitan right now. Idealism in terms of partiotism is largely missing from the panth. These would totally compromise any Khalistan

Sikh ethics seem dead. Without them a Khalistan would become an embarrassment.

Reality is, given the state of people right now and those entrenched in power, it would be a casteist, corrupt place, run by rogues.

Besides we haven't grown enough yet, we may still have morons shooting risque folk singers dead and other taleban type action thinkingthey are doing the Guru's work.

See, we complain about everyone else but fail to see our own failures sometimes. Things like this put arguments about the Dasam Granth into its true perspective.

whats that smoke coals thing hes holding ?

Looks like big lumps of marijuana!! lol

PS - I know it isn't

That was a really special day for me. Did I post the presentation I made from that day here?

I really love the black & & blue smokey images!

Anti dasam granth people need to prove if belief system of poets Ram and shyam was different than sikh thought. If their belief is in line with sikh thought then these are pen names of Guru sahib. If in doubt read invocations where these names come.

I'm not anti, I'm not pro. But your arguments are weak.

Bina rahet ne Sikh kahavai, Rahet bina dar chota kavai

Without the Sikh discipline (rahet) call not yourself a Sikh, without Sikh rehat, at the court of God you shall be punnished.

rahet pyari mujh ko, Sikh pyara nahe

The Sikh discipline is more valuable to me than a so called Sikh who has no rehat.

Guru Gobind Singh Jee

Where is this from??

I do think Bhai Mani Singh Ji would have been able to decipher and distinguish any differences to seperate the works of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the court poets.

I don't know, a lot of the Dasam Granth seems to be reworkings of pre-existing mythology/folk stories.

For all we know the collection could be literature from the time of Guru Gobind Singh including compositions by him as well as others he commissioned?

For instance the Chandi sections are apparently reworkings of Markandeya purana.

Can anyone also explain why the Chadhi stories are provided in both a Panjabi version as well as Braj ones please? Could this not indicate a desire to make such literature accesible to the masses?

Hikayats

HIKAYAT is the title given to the eleven tales, in Persian verse but in GURMUKHI letters, in the Dasam GRANTH, immediately after the Zafamamah. The title `Hikayat` does not occur in the actual text, but most of the tales have a verse, coming after two or three invocational lines in the beginning, which contains the phrase ` hikdyat shumdem` (we have heard the story of...). Hikdyat, being the plural of Hikdyat (story, tale), is adopted as the title for these tales. Each tale is meant to emphasize a moral lesson. The subject matter of the tales is in keeping with the literary taste and style of medieval India and ranges from the romantic and chivalrous to the fantastic and the macabre. Six of these eleven tales are Hindi tales retold in Persian. Hikayat 4 is Chritra 52 of the Chritropdkhydn, where an intrepid ran? defeats the obdurate Raja Subhat SINGH in battle in order to marry him. Hikayat 5 is the Persian version of Chritra 267. Some other stories from Chritropdkhydn have likewise found their way into these hikdyat. All the verses as well as hikdyatsare numbered, but hikdyat one is not traceable. The first talc which comes after the Zafarndmah is numbered two. Some scholars have suggested that Zafamamah proper should be treated as hikdyat number one while others give number one to the first four verses occurring at the beginning of hikdyat two. These verses arc in praise of God and are mainly in Sanskritised Braj.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Hikayats

What names did Guru Gobind Singh Ji use when they penned their literature?

I'm not sure. But judging by more accepted compositions i.e. Akal Ustat, Jaap Sahib, maybe they did not use a pen name at all?

PS - Is it even a remote possibility that some of the compositions in Dasam Granth was by some of the court poets in Guru Gobind Singh's darbar?

I haven't heard that Guru Ji called himself by these pen names? What do other people know about this that I don't?

What makes people draw this conclusion?

Why do you think it is Dasmesh Pita?

Truth is, it is mostly so-called "upper catse" Sikhs that push these people away, but people in the west are in denial of this. If you saw how they are often treated back home, you would hang your head in shame. I mean, what if say English people tried to treat us that way in the UK!

The biggest threat to Sikhs is not the government or deras but themselves!

Have to say though, I have come across early references to Sikhs as Nanak Panthis. Can't exactly remember where though.

The Power of Now

Stillness Speaks

A New World

by Eckhart Tolle

Fantastic books!!

Read A New World. It was awesome!

A nice sample of anti-Islamic and taghooti literature. And as expected the first author mentionned, Ahreeman X, bears the name of Satan in the Zoroastrian tradition. admin cut. It's pretty interesting that the "Online Persian library" doesn't contain Rumi, Hafez, Ruzbihan Baqli, Tusi, Khosrau, Firdawsi, Saadi etc the classics!

What an utter and complete joke!

Ishraqi

(1) What is taghooti?

(2) Is there any online place I can get the classic literature you mention (English translations)?

I think Firdausi was quoted in Zafar Nama.

You know I've always wanted to learn Parsi! One day!

Whoops found something! Ignore last post!

Is anything in English?

Read anything by Che Guevera. Esp Motorcycle diaries, Guerilla Warfare, Bolivian Diaries (written just before he was killed)

Animal Farm - George Orwell (Explains why movements go wrong using animal analogy, must read!)

Papillon - Henri Charrière

Classics:

To kill a mockingbird

This link will take you to reviews of various Sikh related books:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikhism-book-reviews/

When I was a kid I loved watching these Maula Jat movies.

Be thankful you got through college then!

When I grow up...I want to be just like them.

Brruuuuaaaahhh!!

Some people might be frustrated that they cannot get at people like Brar, KPS Gill, Tytler and so take their anger out on an easier target....being the soormey they are....

Thanks for highlighting.

Shame of Panjab! We have become a nation of kuri maars!

Yeah man, i think punjabi sikhs can learn quite a bit from them.

If we ever get over this caste thing, we will need them to teach us how to live without the baggage!!

Panjabis can be morons at times....well quite often actually....