Only five

I'm not going to bother responding to the post about what a person can do in a war and then someone brought up world war 2 stuff. Irrelevant stuff when it comes down to the question I asked. I can easily put the arguement we have modern weapons today. So blah blah about this irrevelant stuff. It's trivial and doesn't go anywhere. And the screaming about Inuits. Well if you want to bring this arguement, then also consider import and export. And if you still want to scream about it then it's wise to go talk to the Nihangs and tell them they will hit the gold mine living with the Inuits. HSD, why shouldn't we eat plants either. What are you getting at. You might be right here. And I'd rather stay at both and just post the same theory in a different site http://tapoban.org/ , so let's see what they have to say. So the question goes unanswered. Why the double standard on meat and plants when it's said by some(majority meat eaters) that these two food groups are on the same food line. Not one higher than the other.

Talk about presenting irrelevant information another way to give the run around. The questions are simple and you're not willing to answer them-this can lead to only one conclusion. Which is you don't have an answer. So let another answer. Your not God so be patient here. let others say or answer my questions. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji tells us how to live our life in every aspect. Guru Sahib is the True Guru.

It's obvious what I am presenting here. And if you don't understand then let someone else answer that does understand the simple questions. No need to get all emotional and have pms.

I don't believe in killing for no reason, wait gurbani tells us this I have no agenda just presenting a side and your unable to bring a counter side to it, that holds. Again humbly tell me which is higher on the food chaing a animal or plant or are they the same and if they are then answer the previous question, why the double standard for two food on the same line.

Now the answer is in your post. So now your saying animal are not the same as plants. Make up your mind here. And don't go with what best suit your arguement go with what you believe and then present that.

Cutting a head off is not hard. All you do is get one person to hold the legs and another while the goat is not looking or aware of what will happen give it one slice with a sharp sword. Remember your using the meat for only survival and it's not a everyday thing. Survival is the key word here. Only some one ignorant will doubt Gurbani.

I asked you why do you have a double standard for animals and plants. Meat eaters and supports of Jhatka as every day use are the ones saying animals and plants are the same on the food line there is no different. So why do you have different ways of killing an animal. Why not use the same technique. It is your logic that is being challenged here. So present a case. I humbly request one of you guys to tell me. But not one of you answer this simple question straight, just give the run around. Is there something to hide here on your part. I put everything on the table with the orignal post. So now it's on you to prove the orginal piece as wrong. And yet none of you challenged it. I am telling you to challenge it and no one does.

Not trying to be a jack***, but these are honest questions everyone should be asking. i have said correct me if I'm wrong here,so please do so if you believe so.

How come the people on here that promote jhatka don't know about why everything is done in such a fashion. yet they promote it. So again why the sugar cane has to suffer painful death and goat gets the one quick slice where it can't fight back.

Something I forgot to comment on. It's in bold. Why does the way you kill an animal have to be commpassiante. When the sugar cane was being crushed by the wooden rollers Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't say you should find a different way that is more compassionte. So the question is, which I presented in the main piece. Why do you have to kill the animal in a compassionte ways and the sugar cane can suffer in horrible pain. So why the double standard here?

I'm curious now, what are the nitnem of a Nihang?

No offense shaheediyan, but this is what I call foolish thinking and underestimating the strength of Gurbani. One singh didn't take on thousand and thousand by watching goats being gutted, but by reading Gurbani and gaining the shakti where he can slice through steel like a knife going through a cake. Bhagti and shakti comes from Gurbani. I didn't take it as wasting time talking to the one's that know about this practice on these sites. But hey, people have different views. i don't live in India man. Here in B.C. surrounded by Singh Sahba Canada and other fools. I will be going to India in the near future and will go to Hazur Sahib to see this whole Jhatka tradition in action. Wasn't going to go at first to Hazur Sahib, but with this whole discussion now it's got me interested.

Something that I should have clarified at the beginning, but I though I didn't need to after stating meat can be used as last survival need. Well I wrote it at the other site and will write it here aswell just comp paste. Don't want to waste time on things that have been said already. Am I speaking against it. Really that's what you guys got from it. i am clarifying it and what it actually is and what it destroys. Like I said people say the Jhatka tradition is done to abolish Muslim halal ways, but I showed it didn't even touch that because....well that piece is there for everyone to read. I don't want to keep repeating it over and over. Jhatka tradition is being used in the wrong way to justify everyday desire of the tongue. Jhatka is permitted as a last option when every plant and leaves have been aten and nothing else is left. For survival needs. Not for the desire of the tongue. Also the knew thing, it's being done so the person gets tough by seeing blood and won't run away from war on sight of it. These foolish ways is what I'm against. Gurbani is what makes you tough and fills that body with shakti to destroy your enemy with one blow. A Gursikh if you look at his daily meal consist of daal, salt, roti, and water. Eating simple. And leave the body building part out. Are the Nihangs Singh running out of daal, sabzi, and roti. NO! For the tongue they perform this useless tradition. Think in context. Jhatka is useful for survival needs. And the blood being applied to the sword is just a whole topic on it's own. So am I pro meat. No! Am I pro vegetarian NO! Am I nuetral on meat and vegetarian. Yes Is Jhatka being used in the way given. NO! it is being abused by some.

Thanks you

The book is edited by Pashuara Singh. You might aswell say Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not our Guru with this guy editing the book Is this book Amarnama edited by anyone else. That isn't an ***hole. Sorry for that but Pashuara is a snake long with his henchmen. Please tell me someone else did edit it.

i have read all those websites and you gotta read between the lines and even change some of the interpretation because how wrong they get it. So far no one has even taken a crack at the writing i wrote on the jhatka. I was wishing a supportor of or nuetral would have done so. Watch some moron make an insult here. I keep getting accused, but no merit there. Again I can call you hitler in the same sense. But again no merit so it doesn't hold. Thanks for the link to the book. Much appreciated.

Now that's more like it. That's what I was looking for. Now where do I get this Amarnama book. I was putting my arguement forward so both sites can present their cases. And so far no one on any site has presented facts, just theory's. Well you tell me about this Amarnama, but first we got to establish it's authencity and that whole bit. Crediability is a huge part of this whole digging around and find the correct answers. Also just because some thing (like Jhatka Tradition) has been around for awhile does not make it correct. Idol worship has been around for awhile, should we pick up stones, put them on our back and then go and start worshipping them at home.

You can make all the accusation you choose. I can call you Hitler and it wouldn't make a difference because there is no support backing it. So be kind a show me where the "I" is getting in the way. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa himself didn't eat meat or told anyone it is alright to eat it.

Chatangal, can you show me where "I" is getting in the way in showing the faults that exist in the Jhatka tradition. Can you show me the faults that you see in my writing on Jhatka tradition. Also if you listen to Taksals view on meat. They say the samething. Meat is only to be used a survival need and nothing more.

This above article in my opinion is running away from the truth. Why would jhatka be permitted when these guys that want to eat meat use bani that says the sugar cane also suffers when being crushed to justify meat eating. Vegetables are also be chopped into bits and they must be crying, and suffering all the time. So why can we put vegetables throw this pain, but not an animal. For an animal we have to strike it with one blow. This does not make sense because if animals and vegetables are the same on the food line then we should be able to cut an animal however we choose, just as we do with vegetables. And this whole Muslims cut the throat slowly and let it bleed to death is a big so what. Didn't the vegetable suffer when we cut it bit by bit. Didn't the juices of the vegetable come out slowly, cutting it bit by bit. Why would Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji allow Sikh to cruelly cut one food(vegetables) and the other he would say the Muslims are making the animal suffer, so now on Sikhs have to eat meat when the animal is struck with one blow and killed. Why would Guru Sahib have a double standard when vegetarian food and meat is on the same line according to the meat eaters. Second arguement these guys like to present is that Muslims were making a sacrifice of the meat to God and reading prayers to make it pure to eat. In this sense to start jhatka does not make sense still. because the food still can be made a sacrifice to God doesn't matter, which way you cut the animal. Can't the mantra be said two or three minutes before they strike the animal with one blow to purifify the food. The only thing Jhatka gets rid of is cruelty of the animal by one blow. But according to the meat eaters in Gurbani the sugar cane is crushed and feels pain. So why be the hypocrite and cruelly let a sugar cane suffer, but not let an animal suffer. Why the double standard. Then last one they bring up is, jhatka was started to abolish the Muslim way of killing animals. What does it abolish that an animal is pure. This is already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. That animal sacrifice is wrong, again already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. As you can see above it doesn't solve this problem and if you say it does then you get labeled as a hypocrite for letting a vegetable suffer on the frying pan. 1. The arguement that vegetables/grain/fruit is the same as meat does not hold. 2. The jhatka way does not solve anything. 3. It proves that meat eaters have a double standard for meat and vegetables, but with the same tongue say both are the same. I say meat is only permitted if every other food on this plant disappears. Meat is only used as a survival need and nothing else.

For me this question is hard to answer and I have heard alot of explanation on what people think, but one of the most convincing answers I got was from Sant Jarnail SIngh ji Khalsa. His answer was so simple and straight forward. Well here is the video and it would be great if members here would give there thoughts on what Sant ji is saying and whether women should be allowed in the Panj Pyare.

What Muslims do is as apart of there religion and it is NOT an example of a Sikh.

Relax man no one is saying we force SIkhi on anyone. On the rest what you wrote I have this to say about it. One of the three pillars of SIkhi is making an honest living. Now lets just explore what this means. What do we as Sikhs consider as honest. Not taking advantage of another, no tricking, fooling, or lying to another. And also not harming another in the process of making an honest living. When we provide someone with alcohol that we know is harmful mentally and physically we know it is wrong. Now lets change alcohol to cocaine. Both are drugs and since its alright to sell alcohol its just as right for a SIkh to sell cocaine to make a living. Here is a shabad that tackles the provider and user. THe drinker is struck down by the Lord what do you think will happen to the guy that provided the alcohol. Read this shabad carefully and it's clear the drinker and provider are punished equally if not the provider gets more. slok mÚ 3 ] salok ma 3 || Salok, Third Mehla: mwxsu BirAw AwixAw mwxsu BirAw Awie ] maanas bhariaa aaniaa maanas bhariaa aae || One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup. ijqu pIqY miq dUir hoie brlu pvY ivic Awie ] jith peethai math dhoor hoe baral pavai vich aae || Drinking the wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind; Awpxw prwieAw n pCwxeI Ksmhu Dky Kwie ] aapanaa paraaeiaa n pashhaanee khasamahu dhhakae khaae || he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master. ijqu pIqY Ksmu ivsrY drgh imlY sjwie ] jith peethai khasam visarai dharageh milai sajaae || Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord. JUTw mdu mUil n pIceI jy kw pwir vswie ] jhoot(h)aa madh mool n peechee jae kaa paar vasaae || Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power. nwnk ndrI scu mdu pweIAY siqguru imlY ijsu Awie ] naanak nadharee sach madh paaeeai sathigur milai jis aae || O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine. sdw swihb kY rMig rhY mhlI pwvY Qwau ]1] sadhaa saahib kai ra(n)g rehai mehalee paavai thhaao ||1|| He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence. ||1|| ang sung 554

I'm be wasting my time but I hope this helps. It is always good to get a range of proteins (and that is what your mate is doing), but you would know that if you knew anything about training. Limiting the range of proteins limits your development. So go figure the rest! This was uneccasary, but your ego get's the best of you. The reason why it was not need because this was said before it by me: Again its a myth. No supplements or meat is need to lift serious weight. Dedication, right diet, and proper weight training. Made it real simple, but I think your ego is bigger than what you make yourself out to be.

IT's a myth that meat is needed to lift alot, not talking about 180lbs on bench or curling 50lbs. Talking about serious weight training here. One of my buddy's is a meat eater and he still drinks a glass of daal to get the right amount of protein. Some of these meat eaters are stick thin. Now according to Randip meat is needed to lift serious weight, but what happened to these meat eaten stick thin guys. Was someone stealing these meat when it was lunch time. Again its a myth. No supplements or meat is need to lift serious weight. Dedication, right diet, and proper weight training. One thing i see in the Punjabi community is, it's all about how much you can bench. The guys sit there everyday benching and just watching their muschle breaking apart from over working one muscle and neglecting the rest. Sooner or later they develop some muscle pains and permanent muscle damage.