singh2

Balbir singh ji I am not genius. I am just an ordinary sikh of my Guru sahib. only Guru sahib is knowing all. per me limited rachha is protector and rachhia is defence or protection.May i know what is correct transaltion?

Dalsingh101 ji I was not unfair. i apologise if i sounded like that. May be you can explain to me what Balbir ji is trying to ask.

Some more anti sikh activities of ragi darshan singh who is heading no w kala afghan adn missionary/singsabha canada heretics. http://www.panthic.org/news/131/ARTICLE/4452/2008-10-17.html Heretic Ragi Attempts to Spoil Gurta-Gaddi Celebrations in Europe (Editorial) Friday 17th of October 2008 Editors * Strong opposition against heretic ragi in Germany, Ireland, and the UK * Backs off from signed Hamburg agreement Despite the various appeals, Hukamnamas, and Gurmattas issued by Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the warnings by virtually all Panthic organizations, the rabid Ragi Darsan Sinh, does not seem to be toning down his venomous rhetoric against the sacred banis of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. His latest folly included a stint in Germany, Ireland and the UK, where he was met with resistance by the Sangat that has lost most respect for the aging, mostly wheel-chair bound heretic they now denounce as a "traitor" and a RAW agent (India’s clandestine Research Analysis Wing Agency). Various Hukamnamas and Gurmattas from Sri Akal Takht Sahib have demanded that all Sikh organizations and institutions, including specifically Ragi Darshan Sinh, not to stir up un-necessary controversy in regards to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib from any public stage or medium. Yet, the contemptuous Ragi, who has lived off the Sikh Sangat’s donations his entire life, is now working hand-in-hand with followers of other ex-communicated heretics, such as Gurbakhsh Kala-Afghana, and Joginder Sawney (Rozana Spokesman). Giani Iqbal Singh, Takht Sri Patna Sahib Jathedar who had earlier declared Ragi a 'pakka tankhayai', and the other Jathedars, have shown extensive restraint so far—mainly due to the upcoming Gurta-Gaddi celebrations. It seems that the Ragi has interpreted the silence of Sikh bodies as a nod to accelerate his anti-Panthic propaganda. Not too long ago in Delhi, when the Jagitri procession connected to the Gurta-Gaddi celebrations was passing through New Delhi, Ragi quickly boarded a plane to Delhi and donned a ridiculous black cloak and vowed to wear it until the Sikh Nation rejected the idea that Sri Dasam Granth was the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. His absurd actions and words are not only misleading the innocent public, but have seemed to attract some so-called Sikh leaders who are ignorant about Gurmat and Sikh history in general. This fact became evident during the Ragi’s recent tour of Germany where he was honored by deluded representatives of Dal Khalsa, Babbar Khalsa, Student Federations, AKJ and some Akali Dal factions. Last week, when Ragi visted Germany under the guise of celebrating the upcoming 300th anniversary of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, he misled several such ignorant, self-serving leaders and Gurdwara committee members using the absurd claim that the RSS was stirring up an enormous "conspiracy" with the aim of replacing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with Sri Dasam Granth and declaring the latter as the "Guru" of the Sikhs. Due to his hateful attacks on Sri Dasam Bani, he was met with vocal opposition from the Sangat in Hamburg where he was scheduled to speak on stage at the local Gurdwara Sahib. During a meeting held at Hamburg Gurdwara Sahib, the Ragi, in the words of his mentor, Kala-Afghana, alleged that there was no proof that any of the Nitnem banis were even read by Guru Gobind Singh Ji during the 1699 Baisakhi Amrit-Sanchar. Ragi : 'No proof 5 Nitnem Banis were ever read during first Amrit-Sanchar' Due to Sangat’s opposition, Darshan Sinh reluctantly agreed not to stir up any further controversy on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib until the 300th Gurta-Gaddi celebrations were concluded. The agreement was signed by the Ragi and the local committee members, it is being shown below for our readers' benefit. Agreement Signed by Ragi and Hamburg Sikhs (Page 1, Page 2) Bhai Sukhwinder Singh, a host on UK's Akash Radio discussed the fiasco caused by Ragi Darshan Sinh on his talk show. We have provided an audio of this discussion, the Sangat can judge for themselves the mischievous agenda of the Ragi and his associates. Click to listen: Bhai Sukhwinder Singh, Host of Akash Radio (UK) Although Sri Akal Takht Sahib directives already forbid any criticism of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib regardless of the Gurta-Gaddi celebrations, the Ragi quickly exposed his true face when only a day after this agreement, he went against his own words and went on a radio station in the UK where he restarted his anti-Sri Dasam Granth assaults. The shameless Ragi also went on record and issued a public statement in the Kala-Afghani mouthpiece, Rozana Spokesman, that all Sikhs should boycott the upcoming celebrations at Takht Sri Hazur Sahib, in Nanded, until Sri Dasam Granth is removed from the Takht. Sadly, several individuals claiming association with Germany’s Dal Khalsa, Babbar Khalsa and Akhand Kirtani Jatha were amongst those who showed sympathy towards Darshan Sinh’s views. When contacted by Panthic Weekly, representatives of various international units of Akhand Kirtani Jatha, including, Toronto, Canada, California, Sweden, Denmark, and France, were shocked that the organization’s name was being mis-represented by some self-serving European Sikh politicians as they were attempting to align themselves with anti-Sikh elements such as Darshan Sinh. All different bodies of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha condemned not only Ragi Darshan Sinh but all those who offered their support to him in Germany and elsewhere. According to the representatives based in Toronto, who came down heavily on Ragi Darshan Sinh, "the Akhand Kirtani Jatha has led the fight against these nastics since the 1990’s, the Jatha initiated the challenge to the ragi at Takht Sri Damdama Sahib for an open debate with Panthic organizations, and he refused to show up for at the venue." The Ragi has tried to promote himself as a neutral individual while he has continued to spread venom against Sri Dasam Granth. Interestingly, he has tried to win the support of leaders belonging to Akhand Kirtani Jatha and other Panthic Organizations, whereas in the past, he labeled these organizations as being RSS subsidiaries. Several AKJ representatives hold close affiliation with the eleven member committee based in India, noted that that Jatha holds no sympathy towards the Ragi. They questioned, "Why would the Jatha now support him? He is an agent of the Indian Intelligence, and is doing exactly what they want: minimize the reverence of Sikh scriptures and divide and discredit Sikh organizations that are involved. Those who are assisting him cannot be associated with any Panthic organization." Positively, in Ireland and the UK, the local Sangat stood unified against him, and therefore not allowed to speak at Gurgwara Guru Nakak Darbar in Dublin, and Sri Guru Singh Sabha Southall, one of the largest Gurdwara Sahibs in Europe. "Loyal Panthic organizations... will always respect the Supreme Authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and the Khalsa Panth. This is what sets the Tat-Khalsa and the Malesh (pseudo) Khalsa, apart." It is becoming increasingly clear that the raagi is out to damage Sikh interests, philosophy and history. His agenda is now no different than the likes of Kala-Afghana and Joginder Sawney. Panthic Organizations need to continue to expose him and his ilk before those claiming to represent them continue to laud him and his beliefs. Panthic Weekly will continue to update you on his escapades in the coming weeks as it seems his current stay in southall may include more preaching against Sikhi and its core beliefs. Despite, the ongoing onslaught on the Sikh scriptures by such distractors and revisionists, our current and past history is replete of proof that loyal Panthic organizations, including the Nihang Dals, Singh Sabhas, Taksals, Semperdais, and Jathas will always respect the Supreme Authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and the Khalsa Panth. This is what sets the Tat-Khalsa and the Malesh (pseudo) Khalsa, apart.

Read how DarshanRagi was trying to sell panth by having meetings with Sushil Muni. http://www.panthic.org/news/131/ARTICLE/4108/2008-05-16.html Ragi Darshan Singh: A Jathedar from Bollywood ? (Editorial) Friday 16th of May 2008 Editors After Takht Sri Patna Sahib sevadars issued an unprecedented ‘Hukamnana’ against the controversial Ragi, Darshan Singh, it seems like sheepish individuals and organizations are now declaring the Ragi a Panthic ‘martyr’ and an innocent ‘victim’ of some hidden conspiracy between corrupt ‘Sikh High Priests’ and the RSS. All of the sudden the bugle of “Reverence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Akal Takht Sahib” is being blown by those who have never shown concerns about the ongoing sacrilege being committed by the Ragi and his nastic sidekicks. Perhaps, its time again to ask the classic question: Where were they (these so-called Panthic yodhays) when: * Reverence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was being ridiculed and derided by those like the Nirankaris who refer to living Guru of the Sikhs as a mere book which is not worthy of more respect than a common library paperback. * The sacred Angs and Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were being tossed on the ground and treated no better than ordinary newspaper or magazine by our own Panthic institutions. * The Authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib Ji was being undermined by the likes of Gurbakhsh Kala-Afghana and other delusional heretics who have consistently declined to appear in front of this supreme Takht for their anti-Gurmat actions. The answer is nowhere. Their concern is NOT about Reverence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or respect for the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib; the concerns of Ragi Darshan Singh’s supporters are completely different. Silent on Beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Why is the Ragi completely silent on the ongoing beadbi at Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee's printing press? Does the Ragi not have guts to criticize Sarna, for allowing such beadbi under his watch? Very conveniently, the Parkash of Dasam Granth at Takht Patna Sahib seems to be more of a priority for the Ragi than what is happening in his own backyard. Why ? Perhaps it is because he does not to upset his Delhi masters. It is obvious that Darshan Singh himself has violated multiple directives of Sri Akal Takht Sahib by criticizing the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, enshrined in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. The directives of May 14th, 2000, and November, 17, 2006 clearly mandate respect for Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. The second directive from Sri Akal Takht Sahib actually makes it clear that those who criticize the contents of Sri Dasam Granth are “mischievous elements”. Moreover, another directive was issued on January 8th, 2007 cautioning the Sikh Community on Ragi Darshan Singh’s misleading parchar. Yes, it is unprecedented for Takht Sri Patna Sahib to issue such a decree, but was it not the duty of the current Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, Joginder Singh Vedanti, to summon the roguish Ragi for his continual violations? Perhaps if Joginder Singh Vedanti had fulfilled his duties as the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, this Ragi’s anti-Gurmat follies could have been curtailed much earlier. Banquet Hall Hukamana by Kala-Afghanis ? Due to various violations, Darshan Singh has not been allowed to use most Gurdwara stages in his home town of Toronto, Canada for many years. Not welcomed in Panthic circles, his supporters had to resort to holding functions inside banquet halls and resturarants many times. It is a well known fact that several years ago, the Ragi participated in an Akhand Patth and Kirtan Divan that was held at the Congress Party member owned 'Lal Suhag' Banquet Hall in Brampton, Canada, where liquor and meat flow frreely. Like Paramjit Sarna, the Ragi's closest supporters are mostly Congress party members. It's a shame that a person who calls himself ex-Jathedar and lectures the Panth on Dasam Granth feels more comfortable in the company naastics and patits, who do now even know the names of the Nitem Bani Those are very people who last week honored him inside a banquet hall for his ‘Panthic’ services. Incidentally this was the same gathering that “ex-communicated” Giani Iqbal Singh from the Panth. Ridiculously, the same people who deplored the Patna Sahib decree have in past issued their own ‘matta’ from within a “restaurant”, absurdly surpassing even Giani Puran Singh’s HukamNama issued from the Guna Railroad station. No complaints during Jathedari Days If one listens to Ragi Darshan Singh’s current tirades against Dasam Bani, RahitNamas, and Nitname Banis, one wonders what circumstances made him qualify to become the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib? During his Jathedari, he had frequented Takht Sri Patna Sahib, and Hazur Sahib many times. At both Takhts parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is done on smaller lower Palki in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Interestingly, being the Jathdar if Sri Akal Takht Sahib, he could have easily brought about changes to this maryada. Yet, he never once complained about this situation. Now, more than 20 years later he realizes the truth? Or is this just one big act? Darshan Singh: The Bollywood Ragi The above movie, titled ‘Nimmo’ was released in 1984. While the rest of the Panth was being besieged by the Indian Armed Forces, hundreds of youths had been killed, and thousands imprisoned due to the Dharam Yudh Morcha, Darshan Singh Ragi was busy acting in a ‘Bollywood’ type movie in which he praises Dusht Daman as the previous incarnation of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Filmed in the scenic foothills on the way to Hemkunt Sahib, the Ragi plays the part of a Sikh parcharik who introduces the trip to Sri Hemkunt Sahib by stating: “ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤ ਜੀ…ਭਾਗਾਂ ਵਲੇ ਹੋ ! ਅੱਜ ਅਸੀਂ ਮਹਾਨ ਤਪੱਸਵੀ ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਦਮਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਤਪ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਹੇਮਕੁੰਟ ਦੇ ਦਰਸ਼ਨਾ ਲਈ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਾਂ…” He then narrates the story stating Guru Teg Bahdur Sahib in his previous life was also a tapasvi, and he was being disturbed by the Rakshahs (demons) that were looking for Durga Devi. Ragi Darshan Singh then states “at that time Guru Gobind Singh appeared as Dusht Daman and eliminated the Rakshahs (demons).” The Ragi then is shown leading his yatrees to Sri Hemkunt Sahib, while continuously waving his arms and singing the last verses of Charitropakhyaan known as Chaupai Sahib and hiking to the Gurdwara Sahib and the Sarovar. Compare the above scene to the irrational anti-Dasam Bani outbursts by Ragi from the stages of Gurdwara Rakabganj Sahib in January 2008. One wonders if he is really a Panthic parcharik, a stage actor, or a politician. True Panthic parchariks do not star in Bollywood movies or rub shoulders with the corrupt and crooked politicians. Take a look at this Ragi’s road trip from Bollywood to taking on the Patna Sahib Takht. Posing for a publicity shot. Bollywood Actor or Ragi ? Ragi Darshan Singh with Panthic-Dusht Surjit Barnala and a young Giani Kewal Singh Ragi with Shshil Muni : Backroom deals with Indian Goverment liaisons Ragi and Puran Singh : A Jathedari of convenience Blessings from one of his Delhi masters - Avtar Hitt Another of his Delhi masters, Buta Singh, who was ex-communicated from the Panth in the 1980s Is Ragi nothing more than a stage actor? If paid in kind, he can sing praises of Dusht Daman, and the Jajharoos. Now that his masters have changed - so has his message and tone. We can not blame just Giani Iqbal Singh, but the Ragi himself, for undermining, the very concept of Miri-Piri that he purported to have stood for, when he was the Jathedar of the Takht Sahib. With what face can those who have come out in support of this mischievous Ragi call themselves supporters of Sri Akal Takht Sahib? The same people openly violate HukamNamas from Akal Takht Sahib but for publicity stunts claim to be supporters of Akal Takht Sahib. Those who undermine it have been historically cast away and discarded. This authority can not be challenged by anyone; whether it is Ambala, Bhasuaria, Kala-Afghana, or the Ragi himself. The same will happen to those who assist and sympathize with such heretics and mischiefs. Sikh Sangat should be wary of efforts of those like Prof. Darshan Singh who claim to be sympathizers of Akal Takht Sahib but in reality they want to destroy the very basis of the Sikh faith. Their fight is not with Takat Sri Patna Sahib, for the Takht’s actions are not even the issue, the fight is really against anyone who stands for the propagation of the Khalsa Panth. Those who have shamefully aligned with the Ragi should question themselves whether by countering the ‘mandate’ of Takht Sri Patna Sahib they are working to preserve the status of Akal Takht Sahib or trying to hide the mistakes committed by the Ragi.

RSS dos not love Dasam granth. IThis is the Granth that are very scared of. That is why they want to undermine it through their agents. If you cann't travel say something on these three charitras that you falsely attach with lifeof Guru sahib. Taksal and nihungs have sacrificed for panth. have you made any sacrifice for panth/ Had you Inder Ghagha would not have got the diplomatic pasport. Ask him hwo he got it? also let us know why names of Darshan singh and Gurtej singh ex IAS appears as agents of Govt of India in book " Open secrets" written by MK Dhar who ws intelligence chief of India.

Fi well said. now we have two sides of the same coin here. One missioanries of kala fghana tribe saying that Tenth master is not author of Dasam granth. then we have RSS follower who says that Dasam granth is written by tenth master but it is written out of his devotion for devi/devtas. That proves they are one and the same.

Mahakal is there in SGGS ji and i showed it to you . Do you want me to post it again? Let us not bring irrelevant names here. I did say that mahakal has four arms. These timids were trying their best to stall the programme . They went to President of Gurudwara sahib and asked him not to allow the programme and that too two days ago when speakers from India had arrived. He called a meeting and he was made aware of the situation. Misisonary representative ran away from there as he was not able to present his case. When they were sure they failed in stalling the programme they vanished. Their main aim was not to let the programme happen. When all was set these pygmies were nowhere to be seen . We had asked them to come. had they brains they would have countered to prove their point when three charitras they are so fond of telling on internet shamelessly are put up for discussion here.r It is also applicable to you also. Why do not you write something about these three charitras here instaed of hijacking the thread.

You were engaged in discussion here. Then you disappeared. Now you are posting something that is a personal attack on me. That shows your real intentions. That is what people do when they fall short of arguements.

Balbir singh ji I have not understood what you are trying to say. it looks that you are not able to understand Punjabi script.

Balbir ji We agree that akal purakh is in dasam granth sahib. Let us knwo what is problem with translation.

Read below When they are under command of akal purakh they are not entity. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਆਪ ਰਚੈ ਆਪੇ ਕਲ ਘਾਏ ॥ आप रचै आपे कल घाए ॥ He creates Himself and destroys Himself; ਅਵਰਨ ਕੇ ਦੇ ਮੂੰਡਿ ਹਤਾਏ ॥ अवरन के दे मूंडि हताए ॥ But He imposes the responsibility on the head of others; ਆਪ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਪਾਯਾ ॥ आप निरालमु रहा न पाया ॥ He Himself remains detached and Beyond Everything; ਤਾਂਤੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯਾ ॥੬॥ तांते नामु बिअंत कहाया ॥६॥ Therefore, He is called `Infinite`.6. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ जो चउबीस अवतार कहाए ॥ Those who are called twenty-four incarnations; ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ तिन भी तुम प्रभ तनिक न पाए ॥ O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure; ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥ सभ ही जग भरमे भव रायं ॥ They became kings of the world and got deluded; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥ ता ते नाम बिअंत कहायं ॥७॥ Therefore they were called by innumerable name Chaubis avtar

Also read two lines before that. ਅਥ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਕਥਨੰ॥ अथ चउबीस अउतार कथनं॥ VISNU`S TWENTY-FOUR INCARNATIONS. ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ ॥ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥ ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फ़तह ॥ पातिसाही १०॥त्वप्रसादि॥ The Lord One and the Victory is of the Lord. By the Tenth King (Guru). ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਅਬ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੋਂ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ अब चउबीस उचरों अवतारा ॥ Now I describe the wonderful performance of twenty-four incarnations. ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ ॥ जिह बिध तिन का लखा अखारा ॥ In the way I visualized the same Chaubis avtar It measn that poet is narrating composition chaubis avtar. Poet says he is writing as he understands them. And next two lines ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਭੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ ॥ सुनीअहु संत सभै चित लाई ॥ O saints; listen to it attentively. ਬਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ ॥੧॥ बरनत सयाम जथा मत भाई ॥१॥ The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing.1. It means that Oh saints listen with attention. Poet ( he has given his name shayam) is construting it s per his understanding. Now to a normal man there is no doubt about this transalation. I do not know why you are fabricating your own translations. And also read ਅਥ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਕਥਨੰ॥ अथ चउबीस अउतार कथनं॥ VISNU`S TWENTY-FOUR INCARNATIONS. ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ ॥ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥ ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फ़तह ॥ पातिसाही १०॥त्वप्रसादि॥ The Lord One and the Victory is of the Lord. By the Tenth King (Guru). Please discuss this in chaubis avtar section.. Let us nor hijack this thread.

Dear balbir ji It is good you came straight and committed yourself. There is no going back now by jugglery of words. Please read below ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਰਛਾ ਹਮਨੈ ॥ अकाल पुरख की रछा हमनै ॥ The non-temporal Purusha (All-Pervading Lord) is my Protector. ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਕੀ ਰਛਿਆ ਹਮਨੈ ॥ सरब लोह की रछिआ हमनै ॥ The All-Steel Lord is my Protect Akal ustati Word akal purakh comes from dasam granth sahib only.

Also read two lines before that. ਅਥ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਕਥਨੰ॥ अथ चउबीस अउतार कथनं॥ VISNU`S TWENTY-FOUR INCARNATIONS. ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ ॥ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥ ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फ़तह ॥ पातिसाही १०॥त्वप्रसादि॥ The Lord One and the Victory is of the Lord. By the Tenth King (Guru). ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਅਬ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੋਂ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ अब चउबीस उचरों अवतारा ॥ Now I describe the wonderful performance of twenty-four incarnations. ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ ॥ जिह बिध तिन का लखा अखारा ॥ In the way I visualized the same Chaubis avtar It measn that poet is narrating composition chaubis avtar. Poet says he is writing as he understands them. And next two lines ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਭੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ ॥ सुनीअहु संत सभै चित लाई ॥ O saints; listen to it attentively. ਬਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ ॥੧॥ बरनत सयाम जथा मत भाई ॥१॥ The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing.1. It means that Oh saints listen with attention. Poet ( he has given his name shayam) is construting it s per his understanding. Now to a normal man there is no doubt about this transalation. I do not know why you are fabricating your own translations. And also read ਅਥ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਕਥਨੰ॥ अथ चउबीस अउतार कथनं॥ VISNU`S TWENTY-FOUR INCARNATIONS. ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ ॥ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥ ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फ़तह ॥ पातिसाही १०॥त्वप्रसादि॥ The Lord One and the Victory is of the Lord. By the Tenth King (Guru). Please discuss this in chaubis avtar section.. Let us nor hijack this thread.

Read the whole dohra. It is personal from writer to akal purakh. Hence name of writer. And also read verses before Dohra ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥ स्वैया ॥ SWAYYA ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਿਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤਿ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਿਯੋ ॥ पांइ गहे जब ते तुमरे तब ते कोऊ आंख तरे नही आनियो ॥ राम रहीम पुरान कुरान अनेक कहैं मति एक न मानियो ॥ O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions; ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥ सिम्रिति सासत्र बेद सभै बहु भेद कहै हम एक न जानियो ॥ स्री असिपानि क्रिपा तुमरी करि मै न कहियो सभ तोहि बखानियो ॥८६३॥ The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਸਗਲ ਦੁਆਰ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੈ ਗਹਿਯੋ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ ਬਾਂਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਅਸਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਦਾਸ ਤੁਹਾਰ ॥੮੬੪॥ सगल दुआर को छाडि कै गहियो तुहारो दुआर ॥ बांहि गहे की लाज असि गोबिंद दास तुहार ॥८६४॥ O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864. ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੇ ਰਾਮਾਇਣ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ॥ इति स्री बचित्र नाटक ग्रंथे रामाइण समापतम ॥ BENIGN END OF THE RAMAYANA.

Balbiir ji First you wrote I asked for your help as you may be knowing though style of your questioning is that akal purakh does not occur in Dasam Granth sahib. Instead of answering my question you are dodging and putting another question. Will you please let us know about akal purakh coming in Dasam granth or not?

Read Dasam granth carefully and You will know where shyam means what. You know now that Ram means poet ram at certain places.

Balbir singh ji What is your idea? Please tell us.

Amardeep singh ji Let us go slowly one by one. It is established that Ram and shyam are one person when referred as writers in Dasam Granth. let us not bring Ram and shyam as names of vishnu in this dicussion as it is clarified by me . We know that Gobind is mentioned as writer in Dohra of ram avtar we raed in rehras sahibeveryday. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਸਗਲ ਦੁਆਰ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੈ ਗਹਿਯੋ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ ਬਾਂਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਅਸਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਦਾਸ ਤੁਹਾਰ ॥੮੬੪॥ सगल दुआर को छाडि कै गहियो तुहारो दुआर ॥ बांहि गहे की लाज असि गोबिंद दास तुहार ॥८६४॥ O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864. Ram Avtar Now read invocation of Chaubis avtar. It mentions about poet shyam. Read the whole invocation and invocation denotes the belief of a writer. It will not be difficult to establish about identity of poet shyam. He is Guru sahib himself. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਅਬ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੋਂ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ अब चउबीस उचरों अवतारा ॥ Now I describe the wonderful performance of twenty-four incarnations. ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ ॥ जिह बिध तिन का लखा अखारा ॥ In the way I visualized the same; ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਭੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ ॥ सुनीअहु संत सभै चित लाई ॥ O saints; listen to it attentively. ਬਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ ॥੧॥ बरनत सयाम जथा मत भाई ॥१॥ The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing.1. Chaubis avtar

Ram and shyam come as pen names of Guru gobind singh ji in Dasam granth in some compositions along with Gobind. Some heretcis carry out a propganda that Dasam granth is written by poets Ram and shyam and not by Guru sahib. In the charitra 109 both names Ram and shyam come. That means they are one person. So they are no separate persons. These words will mean different as per context. They may be Names of Vishnu. Also they may be names used for akal purakh. Both these names have been used in SGGS for akal purakh. They may be names of persons.

Why should we come when it is proved that you have no comprehension of Dasam Granth. It is obvious here. This is your ploy to divert attention from topic by posting nonsense so that your lack of scholarship is not exposed. Gurpreet samra has indulged in worst blasphemy on IHRO yahoo group a few years back by name calling Guru gobind singh ji while quoting these three charitras. He owes an answer to sikh panth.When confronted by sangat he ran away and never posted there. ask him. I will post that here. He has no substance. Do not worry we will come to tornto at right time. We will arrange an international seminar there on dasam granth in due course of time. We did that last year in sacramento where your missioanry buddies ran away and never showed up. They were active to stall that seminar by lobbying with president of Bradshaw Gurudwara sahib.They met with no success..Then they went to West sacramento Gurudwara sahib. When chased by management of West Sacramento gurudwara they started conducting their meeting in parking lot of Gurudwara. President of Gurudwara chased them away from there also by terming them as anti panthic goons. None of them appeared in seminar when it was open to all sangat. You people are master of deception.Paper tigers nothing in substance.

Balbir singh ji Dasam granth sahib talks about twenty four avtars. Guru sahib writes Akal purakh created them and they were mere mortals. So in essence Akal purakh is supreme.

Why should we come when it is proved that you have no comprehension of Dasam Granth. It is obvious here. This is your ploy to divert attention from topic by posting nonsense so that your lack of scholarship is not exposed. Gurpreet samra has indulged in worst blasphemy on IHRO yahoo group a few years back by name calling Guru gobind singh ji while quoting these three charitras. He owes an answer to sikh panth.When confronted by sangat he ran away and never posted there. ask him. I will post that here. He has no substance. Do not worry we will come to tornto at right time. We will arrange an international seminar there on dasam granth in due course of time. We did that last year in sacramento where your missioanry buddies ran away and never showed up. They were active to stall that seminar by lobbyin with president of Bradshaw Gurudwara sahib.They met with no success..Then they went to West sacramento Gurudwara sahib. When chased by management of West Sacramento gurudwara they started conducting their meeting in parking lot of Gurudwara. President of Gurudwara chased them awway from there also by terming them as anti panthic goons. None of them appeared in seminar when it was open to all sangat. You people are master of deception.Paper tigers nothing in substance.

Singh sahib He has already undergone an ID change like administrator of SPN. After their exposure of tactics she became Naryannyan kaur from anthonia. Waheguruseeker is no more waheguruseeker. His new ID is tejwant Singh. So all records are changed. There is a systematic way of fooling others. Person like him can only use vulgar language to derail the discussion. He has not come out with any explanation to justify his assertions. He is distorting our scriptures and calling us RSS. What a sham. Many good things happen when sangat is awakened by the propagnda of these anti sikh forces. They have been crying all along that Dasam granth sahib is written by Poets Ram and shyam. They were told that these were pen names of Guru sahib. They won't belive. Now the charitra posted here have both names ram and shyam in it. See verse 19 and underneath verse 32. ਝੂਮਕ ਦੇਤ ਝੁਕੈ ਝੁਮਕੇ ਕਬਿ ਰਾਮ ਸੁ ਭਾਵ ਭਲੋ ਲਖਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਮਾਨਹੁ ਸੌਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਇਕ ਬਾਰਹਿ ਬਾਧਿ ਕੈ ਜੇਲ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥੧੯॥ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਭਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਲੋਕ ਕੀ ਮਾਨਹੁ ਮਾਨਨਿ ਕੋ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਨੁ ਆਯੋ ॥੩੨॥ That means poets Ram and shyam are one person and that is guru sahib as indicated in another composition. That trashes their conspiracy theory. Waheguruseekeer aka Tejwant singh claims that he has studied ( Not read but studied) Dasam granth sahib. He need to come out of closet and tell us what type of study he did. Please come and explain here.

His job is to indulge in propaganda. If he does not have any understanding of Dasam garnth he is not fit for any debate also. They are trained foot soldiers of anti sikh forces. Their brief is to shout obsecenities and yet they call themselves Gursikhs.