singh2

Does Guru granth sahib say to sikhs to be amriotdhari? If so please let us know.

I told you that teaching sof Dasam granth deal with aspects of temporal life. So they have to touch all aspects of a sikh's life. Teachings of sGGs deal with spiritual aspects mainly.

By the same logic that you are using for Dasam granth, i ask you to show me where it is written by Guru ji? Belief in dasam granth does not mean that we disobey command of Guru sahib.

Because kala afghana started this. giving sermons of morality to sikhs whereas he indulges in molestation of woman while serving as granthi of Gurudwara sahib in Victoai, BC. Do not compare two granths. The two are for different purposes. Wherein SGGS is written about Amrit or khande di pahul for sikhs? Tomorrow you people will tell it is not written in SGGGS ji so no need to have it.

Great post Valli singh ji. I agree.

Why should you compare two granths. They are not rivals. They are brothers and complement each other. One talks about spiritualty and the otehr talks about Spiritualty. concept of saint-soldier and imparts moral lessons to khalsa s an organized religion/

Why cann't be Dasam granth written by tenth master good for sikhs? Any reason for to have that view?

That is oft repeated statement of kala afghana sect.It is outright lie. Have you read ist charitra. That is the greaetet praise showered on women than anywhere else in the history of world.

There is no lust in Charitropakhayan. It is a moral lesson for khalsa by Guru ji. Guru ji sums up in the end Sunne gung jo jahi so rasna pavai Sunne moor cjit laye chatruta avai Those dumbs who recite this with attention get tongue Those mrookhs who recite these with attention get wisdom. Charitropakhayan Lust is for those who pick two liners at random and distort the meanings. It is to be read from the beginning with the mind of Gurmukh Jogi and not manmukh bhogi. Let us focus on n chartiras 21,22 and 23 for the time being. the we can go to otehr compositions

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦਿ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ Gurmukhi prahilaad japi hari gati paaee: As Gurmukh, Prahlaad meditated on the Divine, and was emancipated Ang 591 SGGS ji

Valli singh ji That is a diffrent part to deal with. Bhagat Prahlad and raja janak have been cited as Gurmukhs in Gurbani. I do not think that is a fiction. But in charitras 21,22 and 23 there is no real personality cited. It is a story of king being told by a minister to his king.

Dasam granth imparts education to khalsa in spirituality , soldiery by infusing bir rass , political and mortal fields. It deals with temporal life of a Sikh. Guru ji teaches his khalsa like his own sons and daughters. Kala afghana sect does not say does not understand this. Their attack is not on Dasam granth but on Amrit of tenth master.

One should understand the meaning of a myth before saying above. Such stories are written to impart a moral lesson. For example In our school days we used to read story " The thristy crow." In the end it had moral. Similarly in charitras 21, 22 and 23 guru ji has given great teachings to khalsa by reciting the story of a King ( Not Guru ji but a king). Guru ji imparts moral lesson to his khalsa ਸੁਧਿ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥ ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਨੇਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਨਿਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥੫੧॥ Since i came of age My Guru has advised me My son, so far you have breath in your heart Keep in mind to love your wife But do not go to bed with otehr women ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਭਜੇ ਸਹਸ ਬਾਸਵ ਭਗ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਭਜੇ ਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਾਲੰਕ ਲਗਾਏ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਸੀਸ ਦਸ ਸੀਸ ਗਵਾਯੋ ॥ ਹੋ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਕਟਕ ਕਵਰਨ ਕੌ ਘਾਯੋ ॥੫੨॥ Having sex with other woman Indra got thousands of female organs on his body ( THis is written in SGGS also) Having association with others' woman Moon got defiled To have others' woman ten headed Ravna lost his head For others woman kaurva lost all their army Charitra 21 , Charitropakhayan , dasam Granth This moral lesson Guru ji is giving to his sikhs in those charitras. So these Kala afghana cult do not read those lessons but read only story that to without understanding. Reading these charitras Sikhs touched the heights of morality that was recorded by enemy historians. Any other query is highly welcome on these three charitras.

Randip singh ji I have presented some facts in support of Dasam granth while replying to Giani's points.Please ask him to rebut those by references instead of giving personal opinion of yourself. Please also ask him why he steals articles of others and put under his name.THis is called plagiarism Apart from being an offence it is also against sikh values. The proof was furnished by me giving stolen article'e refrence. How do you believe in what such a person says or writes?

Randip singh has furnished a post of jarnail singh Giani and says that the post reflects SPN view of dasam granth. It is worth to mention here that Giani jarnail singh is a hard core kala afghana follower.Below are comments for Giani's article Dasam granth has been always an accepted and respected scripture of khalsa panth ever since its inception.There is evidence about banis having been read from Dasam granth in 1699. Read This is from Bhai jaita ji's granth. Bhai jaita was eye witness of Pahul ceremony in 1699. http://uploads.sikhsangat.com/monthly_07_2...-1216616102.jpg Here is a second account "The revered mother asked Bhai Kirpa Ram, ‘What Guru ji is doing?’ He said, ‘Revered mother’, Guru ji is preparing ambrosial nectar of the double-edged broadsword for administering it to the Sikhs.’ The revered mother was deeply moved on hearing this. She instantly came to Guru’s presence with a lawful of patasas. Paying at first her obeisance to Guru ji, she poured the patasas from her lap into that bowl. The all-knowing Guru ji did not look at her and continued with his recitation of Jap ji with full concentration. After reciting the sacred compositions of Jap ji, Jaap Sahib, Sawayyas and Chaupai, he recited Anand Sahib. When the ambrosial elixir became ready, he stood up and performed the Ardas. Concluding it with the prayer; he called out Fateh, and raised aloud the spirited chant of Sat Sri Akal. Creation Of Khalsa by Bhat Sarup singh Kaushish in Guru Kian sakhian Unquote BHai Chaupa singh's rehatnama gives date of completion of Charitropakhayn.That coincides with date in dasam granth. GIani need to raedc rehatnamas before telling lies.Can giani furnish a reference here from sikh history in support of his claim. Entire Dasam granth has been accepted by khalsa panth. That is why there is Hukamnama from akal takhat terming those who create misinformation about Dasam granth as mischief mongers. It si time that akal takhat send such blasphemic elements out of Khalsa panth as those who oppose bani of Sikh Gurus are not sikhs. Ridiculous statement that has no relevance with subject. THis is another mischievious statement . All sikhs consider SGGS ji as their Guru. Nevertheless Dasam granth has always been in parkash at Hazoor sahib. It was also in parkash at akal takhat sahib till 1942. Giani ji check your sources. Whole khalsa panth accepts Dasam granth in entirety as of tenth amster. Only a few heretics doubt that. THose heretics can walk out and form their own panth. SPN is famous for conducting rigged debates. This article you have written in a thread that was closed by administrator. Is it not a sham. Sikh panth considers those who doubt the compositions of Dasam granth as blasphemic elements. Read Hukamnama of akal takhat.SPN is not above akal takhat. YOu have been abusing bani of tenth master yourself and writing it as prono. It is quite possible you may start doubting bani of SGGS also tomorrow. Saleable individuals have no ethics.

Artcicle given by randip singh is written by Gyani jarnail singh aka jarnail singh arshi. This article also demontrates a typical case of rigged debate on SPN. The thread was closed as soon as one member Simba posted in this thread that he had knowledge of langauge of Dasam Granth and from that he could conclude that whole Dasam granth is written by tenth master. After two days of closing the thread Gyani Jarnail singh , a great fan of kala afghana , is allowed to post this one sided article in the same thread. What a shame?

Waheguruseeker ji here is the same qusetion i asked you from another forum member.Please reply that so sangat can know your credentials. http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11557 What I want to know is, if Waheguruseeker is an Amritdhari then what banis does he read for his Nitnem? Since he discards all of Dasam Granth as a Hindu Granth then does he not read Jaap sahib, Swaiya, Benti Choupi and Dasam Bani in Rehras Sahib and Ardas? What kind of an Amritdhari is he? He is going against the Panthic Maryadha of Akal Takht which includes Dasam Bani in Nitnem.

How do we know that waheguruseeker is real ID as it has been changing from time to time roadrunner , road runner 2 , waheguruseeker etc etc. Now you admit that. I have expalined to you that i registered here as inder singh2 as there was another Inder singh already on this forum.Do you want the reference of that post. get out of ID phobia and let us know why you hate Dasam bani? Is it because it is a hurdle for easy life style?

Waheguruseeker ji Have you got anything else other than personal attacks. I believe in Manas ki jaat sabe Eko pehchanbo Instead of harping on phoney issues like a child in elementary class try to debate issues involved. You wrote You are right sikhi does not believe in caste system. You are indirectly telling above that dasam granth promotes Hindu mythology. This is mischievious statement. Dasam Granth condemns Hindu mythology in a much harsher terms than SGGS ji. Please show where Dasam granth promotes Hindu mythology. Again can you show us where SGGS ji talks about khalsa rehat? THis topic came up earlier and Kalyug veer ji corrected you. I never flaunted my caste. It is you who falunts that especially when you send private hate emails siging off as teji Malik. Did you find my name with a caste affiliation? What proof you have that Guru Gobind singh ji did not write Dasam granth sahib. Finally you have bared your agenda. You are not a sikh if you do not believe in Dasam granth sahib. You are like a Sindhi hindu who believes in SGGS ji but do not believe the teachings of tenth master. They do mundan and smoke cigarettes. Since you have no scholarship in dasam granth only thing you will do is to sidetrack the topic by personal issues. Tell us what made you conclude that dasam granth is not written by tenth master?

N30singh ji Thanks for clarifying that. I have told this to him a no of times.But he just sidesteps that and continues personal baragae of bullying. May i ask why he was using different ids like waheguruseeker, roadrunner, roadrunner2 etc etc. So these are filmsy issues to derail the discussion. Waheguruseeker ji Let us know your views why you call Dasam granth Hindu Granth?

Waheguruseeker ji PLease do not involve personalities in discussion on Gurmat. Discussion ishould be issue based and not personality based. Persons like you and me are mortals. They will keep on coming and fading into oblivion with time. I reject caste system. I love my Gurus more than my life. Let us have your views why you hate Daam granth sahib. At the same time you say you are Amritdhari. What banis you read in nitnem. i asked this question there a number of times.

Waheguruseeker ji Welcome to the forum. Since you discard Dasam granth on SPN calling it Hindu writings tat have no place in sikhism. You are a mentor there. The job of mentor should respect all aspects of sikhi. By disowning dasam granth what guidance you are giving to youg sikh minds who visit your site. If we contest that you start bullying there. I will humbly request you forward your view points for basis of your conclusions to say so. The present topic is Charitropakhayan. will you please throw some light on this.Alternatively you can choose a topic of your choice from Dasam Granth and moderators will assign a separate thread for that. Your cooperation is highly appreciated.

waheguruseeker ji is this your post on SPN where you are calling dasam granth a Hindu granth? http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/23...shan-singh.html Tejwant calling others Hindus for respecting DG Inder Singh ji, I want to thank you for showing your true colors and your faith in Hinduism which is not a bad thing. Lots of Hindus are also members of this Sikh forum. =============================================================== Tejwant calling believers in dasam bani as Hindutva When these things about DG being the work of Guru Gobind Singh keep on cropping up by some whose agenda is nothing but deviate us from our only GURU- Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and add Hindutva into Sikhi.

Calm down waheguruseeker ji. Seekers of waheguru do not get angry. This is a discussion forum and discussion is open. In case you desire to have one to one discussion you can do it on PM. Moreover you do not believe in discussion on Gurmat. All you do is bullying others and indulge in personal brawls.Let us not bring irrelevant topic of Jatt and bhapa here. This caste system is rejected by our Guru sahibans. I l;ove my Gurus more than life and that is the raeson i was there to defend bani of my Guru that you call hindutva writings. had you regards for our dasam pita you would not have disowned His bani. All sikhs consider SGGS ji as our Guru. Do not tell lies as sikhs do not tell lies. SEE my post below where i asked you to give proof where i wrote so and you ran away. http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...0&start=120 mr seeker where are you. This is second reminder from me to show where did i state that Sri Guru Granth sahib is not my Guru. Now you keep mum to hide your lies. You are a liar and one of the the proofs of your lies is given below. This is question from you and below is reply from me. This is in addition to many assertions from me that do not lie on the status of Sri guru Granth sahib. Stop lying. http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11496&st=0&start=0 I have already stated in reply to your false propaganda that Only and Only SGGS is eternal guru for all sikhs. no sikh disputes that. You want me to post the relevant post here. But propagandist like you keep on creating imaginary issues like this to earn an ear. Stop doing this as every sikh considers SGGS as Our Guru. Nevertheless second most important scripture for sikhs is Dasam Granth. What is your view on this? Waheguru seeker ji, can you please show me the post where i wrote like this? Tell us how did you conclude that Dasam granth is hintutva Granth and those who defend that are hindus? Sangat will like to see your reasoning for that.

fauj The above charitas are being discussed here. you are posting in wrong thread. See my post in other thread. I am asking reply from you. After you reply i will give further details of your limitation in undestanding. I suggest first learn the meaning of Chirtropakhayan before speaking anything on this.You thugs have a made s mockery of our religion without understanding the subject you speak on. There are verses from these charitras that Giani ji speak to us while we have our anand karaj. I will show you everything when you engage in discussion. Read below and reply. http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11557 To understand charitras 21,22 and 23 one should read charitras before that starting with charitra 2. Upto charitra 20 a minister is reciting charitras where women are deceiving men. In beginning of Charitra 21 king asks minister now tell me a charitra where men have duped women. That is shown in charitra 21,22 and 23. That itself is clear that it is a story( Fiction) being recited by a minister to his king. It is not real and hence cann't be related to life of tenth master. Changing the name of places is an artistic expression to take the story to great heights. kala afghna sect follower khalsa fauj has different interpretation and he may tell us why he thinks that it happened with Guru ji when the writer i.e. guru sahib is repeatedly telling in charitras that these are mantri- bhup sambade. Khalsa Fauj, where are you. Please ask your Guru kala afghana, ragi Darshan and jeonwala for help.