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Personally, it seems to me as though "Narsingha" and "lalleshvari" are on this forum trying to spread twisted views that contradict Sikhi (MODERATORS, please watch out for them..they might be part of one of those stupid groups that are trying to brainwash people with anti-sikh propaganda) Steel Bangle Veerjee's not a sick minded perv like some other people who have posted about this issue (not to mention any names, *ahem*), thus, he wouldn't ask a question like that with any bad intentions.. You're trying to twist words around but it's not even working! If you take a question in the wrong way, it doesn't mean the person who asked it had the same retarted intentions as you would perceive Anyways ... :roll: You all can have your "well-groomed" (hahahaaa) eyebrows and remove the rest of your hair too, no one's stopping you. If you want to be a Sikh, on the other hand, try accepting Sikh tenants first, rather than calling yourself a Sikh and preaching Manmat. We shouldn't try to change Sikhi to suit the needs of Kaljug and our minds, we should change our minds that are suffering in Kaljug, so we can suit Sikhi. It can't be the other way around, and if you want it to be, then you should practice a different religion, no one's asking you to be a Sikh.. Guru Jee doesn't need you, you need him.

that's right -- guru har krishan jee actually was called a pharmacist because he took care of people with small pox and i think he even gave people medicine.. we have pretty amazing gurus khalsa soulja, who'se Bhai Ram Singh?

um ok

yeah kaur, that could be true, but i still think many people use it for the wrong reasons -- like how some of the people were saying that diva's are put in guru jee's hazoori to bring shaheeds there or whatever :?

jee sagal ko dheyh dhaan, sahib mera mehirvaaaaan

i'm gonna give millions of ladoos out if i ever have a baby girl and i'm gonna make her one hell of a singhnee -- strong as steel, steady as stone :wink:

we need to recognize that in the end, everything is Guru Nanak's vadiaaee -- it's NEVER the greatness of an individual purpose -- all of ACTUAL, genuine sants were given kirpa from Guru Jee, and it's all his greatness, it has nothin to do with the person themselves.. If the person is making you praise Guru Jee/God more, it's GURU JEE's kirpa, not the Sant's kirpa

lalleshvari -- this isn't a forum for flirting, your behavior is unacceptable...stay away from steel bangle veer. thanx. :? hair is hair, we're not supposed to remove ANY hair, why would we be allowed to remove hair from certain body parts but not from others? that doesn't even make sense.. ALL OF THE HAIR that God gave us is a gift and the simran that we do vibrates rom rom through each and every hair, each and every pore, the hairs protect us from infection and they also provide warmth for our bodies when we're cold.. and either way, it's guru jees hukam to keep them, so that's what sikhs do.. you shouldn't come on a sikhi forum preaching anti-sikhi concepts.. that's like going on an islamic forum and saying YEAH DON'T WORRY ABOUT EATING PORK, ITS ALL GOOD! vaheguruuu bakshle ....

the akal takht says that to be recognized as a sikh, you're supposed to keep your hair .. hmm .. and also refrain from adultery, intoxicants, and eating meat.. some people say you're not a sikh until you take amrit others say that if u are sehajdharee but on the path and if you plan on taking amrit soon, and you're working upto it, then you are a sikh it's a matter of personal belief.. you should post on many different sites and see what people say

holyyyyyyyyyy crap VEERJEE U ARE MY TWIN MAN !!! I ALWAYS SING THOSE 2 SHABADSSS especially naam japandree laalee and i sing it like that too !!! its oen of the only things that makes me happy when im down.. NAAAAM JAPANDAREEEE LAALEEEE (LAALEE LAALEEEEE!!!!!) NAAAAAAAAM JAPANDREEEEE LAAAAALEEEEEEEEE !! :bow: vahegurooo !!!! u are truly my twin bhajee how about HAR HAR JAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP BAIREEEE HAR THULHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAR HAR JAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP BAIREEEE HAR THULHAAAA , vahgurooooooooooo vahegrooo vahegrooo vahegrooooooooo!!!!! :yo: << thats me right now

true said khalsa soulja

sim woman have been wearing it for centuries, like you said, but does that make it okay? :? does it really make sense? :? is there a reason why we are expected to do it but guys aren't? :?

:? :? :? what are u talking about veerjee try to re-read jsb's post.

war like? it had references from gurmukhs and banee... i was jus responding to n3o :? haha whatever fateh

hmm if we're not confident about our looks we should ask guru jee for kirpa and once we become 100% HIS, it's pretty impossible to feel ugly or physically impaired in any sense embracing real sikhi actually makes you feel beautiful -- for example, many people, when they begin growing their hair out and following sikhi, they feel more beautiful than they had ever felt before that's the beauty of gurmukhs -- they have amazing levels of humility, yet they have enough self confidence to take on the world it's really really really hard to give up makeup, but little by little, with sehaj AND LOTS OF ENCOURAGEMENT AND SUPPORT FROM YOUR BROTHERS WHO TELL YOU U DONT NEED IT, it's possible to leave your face natural, the way guru nanak made it i think sometimes you can't really stop people from wearing it, but it depends on the circumstances -- some girls feel ugly without wearing makeup and they need it on them 24/7 -- i think that's a real problem i also think if our veerjees encouraged us more to be real singhnees and embrace guru gobind singh, we probably wouldnt feel the need to wear makeup and impress guys or other people, because we'd know we have a Father that loves us more than any guy ever possibly could

yeah i wrote like this huge post explaining eveyrthing i dunno if i posted it in here but they probably didnt show it and i dont even care, its all good.. im no one to tell others how to live their lives, even if it doesn't make sense to bow to people, if others still do it, i don't really care... i just hope guru gives them kirpa and gives me some too you guys should consult other people if you want to find out more about this.. i suggest checking out the akj site, talking to akj people, talking to dhodra people, talkin to sikhnet people (its sad we have so many different titles under 1 Panth) but if you do that, you'll get more opinions -fateh

do you mean joth as in a diva or just a normal candle or ...? i don't think i've ever seen that at a gurdwara...?

Guru Gobind Singh brought the sword, to fight oppression and injustice Guru Nanak scattered the light of truth everywhere -- he's the one who established Sikhism and encouraged equality -- regardless of caste, race, religion, background, gender, etc. All of the Gurus brought back womans rights to India. Prior to Sikhi's formation, woman were bought and sold in India and basically deemed as cattle. They were given no respect -- there were customs like Sati (when a wife has to burn herself alive upon the death of her husband) and so much more. The Gurus were against all of these things and Guru Gobind Singh claimed that woman were also saint-soldiers and that when a man OR a woman takes Amrit, both are Singhs. A woman is a Singh first, and a Kaur second. Also, Guru Amar Daas created Manji's for preaching Sikhi, and he gave appx. 26 of those seats over to woman -- when normally woman were never allowed to preach religion, let alone leave their homes. For the first time as far as I can remember, it was our own Gurus who gave the same rules and rehat to men and woman alike. I haven't heard of any other era, civilization, or religion in which there was this much equality. There are like 50 more stories about how Sikhi demonstrated equality in all aspects. Our Gurus created the Langar ceremony -- where all of the congregation could come together as one, regardless of any distinctions, and eat together. Here, for the first time, beggars and kings sat side by side, as brothers/sisters. Sikhs were (to the best of my knowledge) the first ones to create a Red Cross system -- Bhai Ganaya served water and aided defeated soldiers of both sides in battles There were MANNNY Sikhs who fought in the two world wars, many Sikh doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, writers, who have fought for justice and lived true Sikhi while helping others. In the Independance of India, more than 80% of India's army was comprised of Sikhs, because of their great bravery. Much of India's wealth also comes from Sikh farmers in Punjab. (isn't it kind of strange that even though sikhs have contributed so greatly to india, they've still been treated like slaves in a land which is supposedly their own?) If you're gearing more towards Sikhs that inveted certain things, well my brain isnt really working right now, but ill try to get back to you on it

shere khalsa jee -- its bhagat fareed jees saloks, its Gurbani.. he wasn't complaining, i think he just came to an amazing realization about the importance of TRUE bhagthee during Kaljug... bhagat fareed jee's writings were amazing, i first heard this shabad at my friends funeral.. his writings hit you REALLY hard, and the meanings are really deep, but so understandable at the same time...it could relate to anyone

jsb i think you're scaring people away either way sarbloh rocks man once i read this lekh about mai bhago and the 40 mukhtey WRITTEN BY THE ONE AND ONLY KALGIDHAR PATSHAH HIMSELFFFF -- vaheguru -- :wink:

veerjee, gurfateh !! i measure respect in, well -- being sweet to people, understanding them, taking care of their needs and problems, doing seva for them, trying not to talk back to them unless they say something which goes against sikhi or your personal maryada/set of beliefs, spreading good vibes by smiling and being in chardee kalaa, listening attentively to what they say, showing you care about what they're saying to u, etc.. if you give me a specific situation maybe i could elaborate more and either way, there are so many other ways to show respect rather than outright bowing to someone.. you said yourself that people who call themselves sants aren't sants right? well someone who actually lets you bow to them or encourages you to do so -- is that really acceptable? fateh

According to the Sikh Rehat Maryada, Sikhs are told not to believe in magic, spells, incantation, omens, etc... And are also not supposed to keep Diva's - (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after a person's death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased).. So you said some people keep Diva's for shaheeds - well that's against Gursikhi, we should just do ardaas for them and try to live our lives dedicated to their sacrifices.. A Diva does nothing. Sikhs are also not supposed to believe in using Toofs or whatever to keep evil spirits away. If someone is 'possessed' or even confronted by evil spirits, they're supposed to do a sehaj paath and some people have even contacted the Panj Pyare when a matter like this comes up.. But toofs, and wearing black necklaces and putting black dots on your face -- that's all Anti - Gurmat and it wont really protect you from anything anyway, only Guru Jee can protect you from, well, anything really..

it's true that there are many people who do amazing katha and keertan and i've heard lots of people like that myself -- and it's true what kaur said -- sometimes you just KNOW if the person is real or fake... but either way, i don't think we necessarily NEED to go out looking for Sants, if we have Guru Jee with us.. Sangat, sure, but you can get Saadh Sangat from attending certain programs and stuff.. I think it's fine to respect and show pyaar towards Sants (shouldnt we do that to everyone?) BUT there's a certain level that this goes up to.. for example, when people call certain sants "maharaj jee" and only get parshaad from those sants and start bowing down to them and obeying their every command -- it's a bit strange... some of those people dont even have as much much respect for Guru Granth Sahib Jee... :? i think it's just because these Sants show a "physical representation of God" and often times we need something physical to tell us and show us the way ... HOWEVER, Guru Gobind Singh Jee said that after him, the Guru Granth Sahib Jee will be the Sikhs' spiritual Guru and the PANJ PYARE will be the Sikhs' PHYSICAL guru ... so i think if we're lost or confused or need guidance, we should firstly talk to Guru Jee and try to get fulfillment through that, we can even take a hukamnama and see what guru jee wants to say to us... if we're still left confused, then we should try to get in touch with the Panj.. talking to Sants is cool, you can learn lots from them, but I'm just saying that these days it's really hard to see which ones are in it for Sikhi or Fame/Money...

it may be true that hair alone will not lead you to salvation but hair is the natural gift of god -- and it HELPS you attain salvation kabeer jee is saying that some people think that by merely taking part in rituals and not remembering god, they will attain salvation, but it's not like that. the point is, hair helps you, and its a part of sikhi, something god put on our bodies for a reason

veerjee you're right - thats what i was saying