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i personally think it's kind of off when people don't eat from non-amritdharees, but i can understand when they don't want to eat from people who drink alcohol/eat meat/do other things as such which go against sikh maryada... because you might feel like you can't *trust* that person's food - but i don't think all non-amritdharee people are 'non-trustable' - some non-amritdharee people are extremely pure - and even other religious people, for example, buddhists, are really really health/food concious... so it really depends on the individual - that's with general food though.. degh is different.. when it comes to the preparation of degh (parshaad) people say that only amritdharees should prepare it - it seems more *proper* but i don't know the exact reason of why - perhaps because some people don't feel comfortable when degh is prepared by non-amritdharees... degh is like a gift from the guru, something you get from guru jee after being in sangat and visiting the gurdwara... it's like a representation of the guru.. generally the most pure sikhs who follow rehat are those who have taken khande kee paul (amrit), because when people are TRULY devoted to sikhi, they get up and take amrit, proclaiming that they are prepared to give their HEAD to guru jee... it's mostly the amritdharee sikhs that are more pure and learned and devoted to sikhi.. that doesn't mean they're "better" or more superior, but sometimes it makes more sense for them to prepare stuff like degh because it's reflecting and representing the guru - it's basically coming from the guru... only someone who has A LOTTTT of devotion should be able to do seva like that.. it's the same thing with the 5 pyare - non-amritdharee people can't be in the 5 pyare because in order to be a part of the panj, you have to be one of the most pure and strong sikhs - who really really really obeys rehat and has a lot of knowledge and love for sikhi - someone who has given their head to guru jee...and it has been said that amrit is the first rehat that makes you a sikh.. I still think it's wrong, however, to say that kesdharee people can make degh but non-kesdharee people can't - i think its about amrit not kes... what do you guys think? I also think its true that people don't discriminate against woman who cut their hair as much as they do with men who cut their hair.. Perhaps this is because with men who cut their hair, it's more noticible.. Many amritdharee girls only wear chunis, just like non-amritdharee girls, so its hard to tell the difference.. If most amritdharee girls wore keskis, it would be a different story. :wink:

jee i don't think sikhs are supposed to wear hats...it was written in a hukamnama and i believe somewhere in bani it also says bad stuff about wearing hats.. i know for sure it was said in a hukamnama though that we're supposed to follow.. if anyone caers to know ill look for it and find it

darsh jee i'm sure it wasn't intented as such guru sahib is the supreme bakshanhaar and loves his all of his cheley/disciples with unconditional pyaar, and saadh sangat is the same...but that love probably gets elevated and even more deep and beautiful once guru sahib's chela actually follows guru sahib's hukam and rehat, showing guru sahib that s/he is willing to return such unconditional love..

rennet usually comes from pig's intestines.

I don't know if someone already said this but I don't think we need "sants" to lead us to the right path - because so many of these "sants" can be totally corrupt - you can't trust anyone these days - only Guru Jee is 100% true... When people begin going to Sants for advice, they almost idolize the Sant and think that s/he is perfect - but no humans can be perfect... That's why we need to understand that only Guru Jee can lead us to enlightenment and mukhtee. No Sant can do that. Being in Saadh Sangat OBVIOUSLY helps, but our Guru's came to this earth, spread their light, and now we have Guru Granth Sahib Jee to help us...

if ALLLLLLLLLL (ABSOLUTELY ALLLLLLLLL) other mechanisms fail, only THEN is it righteous to use the sword.. you can't kill someone right away without trying to use some peaceful method to deal with the problem first..thats where you need to control your anger and be able to think rationally in all situations of life..

Not that I know of, but Guru Nanak encouraged that all Sikhs should work hard, rather than be lazy. Plus especially in our society, it's important for Sikh Youth to study hard and become good, strong, members of society... That will also help Sikhi because we can come together and build Sikh Youth centers and non-corrupt Gurdwaras and stuff.. So studying is really important for Sikhs - you should get educated and be aware of everything around you

Hey Panjee - i know how you feel !! Sometimes it seems that people are more accepting of men that have dastaars, and yeah I agree with you, but it's also hard for men (or women) to wear dastaars, since it's not the norm. But hair is an entirely different issue. It can be REALLY difficult to keep your hair when all the girls around you don't - especially when society preaches being hairless. All I can say Panjee is that it's TOUGH - but it's sooo possible.. With Guru's Kirpa - anything - is possible. You just have to realize that all these people who judge you and say that hair is ugly or disgusting, don't UNDERSTAND - panjee they aren't at the same spiritual level as you are. They haven't been enlightened yet, they haven't been blessed with the knowledge of reality.. If YOU have - then you shouldn't ignore that Light just so that you can fit in with this ignorant world. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT - removing your hair REALLY does not make sense. For a man or a woman, it's just so stupid and pointless, if hair were meant to be removed, girl, why would it be there in the first place.. And wy would it grow back to a certain length and stay that way til you remove it again? It's just not right panjee. For me, keepin my eyebrows was really tough. I used to be one of those girls who always had all her hair removed, all my makeup would perfectly match my clothes and my shoes and purse and skirt would all be perfectly matching - me and my friends were so pathetic all we cared about was how perfect we looked...We were so shallow - in class we'd be sitting there asking each other how our hair looked. & we'd judge other people based on their looks as well. It was so pathetic - I always had to have my eyebrows done, my skin perfect, my lips, eyes, cheeks - everything was like I was gonna be in some beauty magazine or something.. :roll: Even when I began getting into Sikhi, I cut down on most of that, but only a few months ago did I start keeping my eyebrows and believe me, it was HARD panjee. My mom would yell at me, even my cousins were swearing at me, as if my body belonged to them, not me... :? & everyone made it seem that hair is ugly, and that I should "at least pluck some of it off" - but then guru jee came ... and he took away all the tears and anger and pain.. :cry: and he helped me realize that we're only guests in this world anyway - we should live according to Guru Jee's Hukam - because that's honestly the only thing that brings or has brought me REAL, GENUINE, UNBREAKABLE comfort, happiness, and peace.. when you have to worry about removing your hair and all that, at the end of the day, you have all this stress because you feel that you have to be perfect and you have to impress everyone... but once you leave that stuff behind and recognize the strength that Guru Jee can give you, you come home at night and say HEY - AT LEAST I STILL HAVE HIM - even if the world is messed up, your friends are disloyal, your family is demanding, your teachers are rude, your life seems horrible, you're boss is always on your back, your siblings always fight with you - WHATEVER - no matter WHAT - you're still able to say vaheguru.. at least i have Him in my life.. and that takes away all the other pain and makes everything complete again.. AND ALSO PANJEE - it doesn't matter what other girls do. We come on this Earth to be unique and be different - why should we follow the examples of other negative girls? Shouldn't we be role models and lead other girls who are confused - helping them be strong too? The world is messed up but girl, don't follow the world, follow Sikhi, and nothing else will matter anymore.. Man I'd still go swimming or do whatever - I was just wearing shorts the other day and I have hair on my legs man.. DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR THE SINGHNEE WHO STAYED OUT OF THE WATER CAUSE OF HER HAIR - I think she SHOULD HAVE still participated - most Singhnees still would, and should... But you shouldn't feel sorry for her if she's Amritdharee man!!! Don't feel sorrow for the girls that are following Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Hukam - they are free!!! You should feel sorry for the girls who have to remove their hair in order to satisfy society. Now that is sad, panjee.

vaheguru.. thats an amazing story.. almost brought tears to my eyes and that barely happens cause i'm not blessed enough to cry those kinda tears.. at least someone, maybe even just one person, apart from guru jee, understands...

vaheguru...

OKAY i'm not gonna mention any names but some of your posts are pretty disrespectful to Gurmukh Bibian in general..firstly lemme say i'm a horrbile Sikh, if i can even be called a Sikh at all - im nothin man.. but i've seen some AMAZING BIBIAN in this world, and i want u people to READ THIS ... the truth is - there HAVE been female "saints" - and extremely enlightened bibian, but the world chooses not to recognize them... Most "Sikh" guys are actually pretty sexist and they don't recognize everything that Sikh bibian have done.. :evil: I know TONS AND TONS OF AMAZING GURMUKH BIBIAN that deserve to be in the Panj Pyare but you know why they wont volunteer??? Because they've got too much namrata or humility.. seriously... I don't understand why people don't make those bibis volunteer.. Because there are so many amazing Gurmukh bibian out there that are just as, if not MORE ENLIGHTENED than several of the men who blame bibian (NOT TO MENTION ANY NAMES OF THOSE KINDA MEN..AHEM HINT HINT COUGH COUGH) - but those bibian just don't volunteer for 5 pyareyaa dhee seva because they don't feel that they are gurmukhs - even though they are gurmukhs and they are of equal status to all the other singhs who volunteer for 5 pyareyaa dhee seva.. !!! and hey khalsa soulja, i think you should chill a bit.. because hey i don't know if you're amritdharee yet but i know a hell of a lotta bibian that ARE and just because a bibi doesn't wear a keski doesn't mean she's a bad person or a horrible Sikh... Sure i encourage ann think everyone should wear a keski - but you can't say people are inferior if they don't.. jeez veer you're gona turn people away from sikhi if you don't chill - you don't know the half of it bro there's thousands of singhneea out there who have had Guru Jee's Darshan... just because they don't flaunt it doesn't mean that it isn't true.. Because of this stupid and sexist society, none of those bibian are given the right to go out and do kathaas and all.. Just because Gurmukh Bibian aren't making themselves known politically, doesn't mean that they don't exist!!!!! -Haven't you ever heard that phrase??- A Diamond Has No Value In The World When It Is Still In The Mountain - until the diamond is revealed, people don't know its worth, but in reality its more priceless than all of the other rocks that wish they could be diamonds... Just because the real diamond doesn't go around telling everyone that it's valuable, and precious, and maybe even powerful, does not mean that the diamond lacks those qualities.. Obviously this Gurmukh Bibian don't really give two craps, however, about the world and how the world percieves them.. And that's because they're Gurmukhs.. Sadly some people don't recognize that.

manjit singh.. you must be extreeeeeeeeeeemely gifted and amazing to be able to remember god with every breathe even while you're drinking, eating meat, taking drugs, and clubbing... i don't know a single person in my life who can do that... that's amazing.. but so rare!! it's strange though - because if you love vaheguru so much, then why do you even need to take drugs, veerjee? if he's in your thoughts and mind and heart 24/7 as you do everything - then why do you even NEED alcohol?? wouldn't your blood already be pumping with naam and wouldn't your entire body be drunk on naam already???? What's the need for drugs or alcohol in such a case? Why would you need to go to clubbing as well - if you're thinking of vaheguru 24/7 - you wouldn't have any doubts, desires, or needs to go clubbing, drinking, or any of that... you wouldn't even need the taste of meat or anything as such - you'd be 100% satisfied in yourself and you'd stay away from manmat and maya, as well as all of the other things that Guru Jee told his Sikhs to avoid..

um anyways.. i don't wanna get married either, most guys are full of crap and marriage doesn't really excite me much.. but the thing you guys need to realize is, stop blaming the girls, cuz the guys are just as bad.. imagine how hard it is for girls to be raised in societys like ours today.. since we're young we're brainwashed to be pretty and gentle and delicate, and we grow up with all this propaganda hitting us through the media, telling us to be barbies and make ourselves perfect for guys.. as we grow into our teen yrs, we're expected to have perfect bodies, with hairless legs, faces, arms, etc... and most girls start removing their hair in elementary school now.. most girls also cut and dye their hair, in order to fit in and look 'normal' according to societys BS values.. it's really sad having to see girls transform themselves from the way guru nanak made them to the way that society wants them.. most guys in the world favour girls with no hair, who wear tighter clothes and who conform more to society and who are beautiful ACCORDING TO SOCIETY - BUT NOT ACCORDING TO SIKHI ... most guys in this world don't understand the meaning of REAL beauty i know BARELY ANNNNNNNNY GUYS (except for my bro, another singh or 2, and steel bangle) who think that girls should wear keskis...most guys think its only a manly thing to do, and girls need to be feminine, of course, and look like the girls on TV do ... It's pretty damn hard being genuine when everyone around you is fake. & it's even harder being genuine when everyone around you looks at all the glamour on tv and in movies and magazines and stuff, and judges you based on THAT rather than on the type of person you are... THAT'S WHY SO MANY GIRLS ARE RAISED IMPROPERLY and aren't taught really sikhi... they're taught to be slaves for men and they're taught that they don't NEED to be singhnees, because they're just 'weak woman', their husbands will protect them, they dont need to be strong... their jobs are simply to look good and cook.. think about it, guys it's kind of a double standard when you expect girls to understand if you don't understand yourself (that doesnt apply to the few guys who do understand... dhan guru nanak , thank god, there are some ppl like that left) BUT TO TELL U THE TRUTH - most guys are more corrupt than girls these days are, so i wouldn't talk man...There are just as many guys out there who want hairless girls and all that BS.. There are just as many guys who sleep around, drink, and disrespect sikhi.. Just as many guys, if not more. bhul chuk maaf karna...

nara singh.. people who dont worship hindu gods and go against sikhi are living "fairytale sikhi" ?? people who dont teach anti-gurmat parchaar to youth are living in "fairytale sikhi" ?? you're funny

if the punjabi culture does have castes, it's complete crap, and it was integrated into punjabi culture because of the negative influence in india and the brahmin culture... eventually punjabi people began to adopt many principles of the hindu culture (girls started cuttin their hair and wearin saris and stuff) and the caste system was pciked up.. either way its full of crap and sikhs dont follow it..

vaheguru jee ka khalsa vaheguru jee kee fateh you didn't break your sikhi man, but i see how you feel bad for hanging out with the wrong crowd... sikhs should try to keep in positive sangat as much as they can, because the more and more you hang out with negative people, the more and more you'll become like them.. so you have to be really careful, you might get kinda tempted to do some of the stuff they're doing if you hang out with ppl like that too much.. just try to find some positive sangat, even its through emails or somethign on the internet - just some ppl that can understand and relate to you, and inspire you about sikhi... much love -fateh-

Indian... When 250,000 of your innocent brothers and sisters are brutally raped and slaughtered like meaningless and useless animals, you can't "forgive and forget and start afresh in the year 2003!!!!" You make it sound like some game, well if you ask me, injustice isn't a game.. Even when someone mentions Operation Blue Star i can practically hear the gun shots, the screaming, the riots, the torture, the rape, and it all happend for what reason? What good came out of it... what did the Indian govt' get out of all of their disgusting and racist pursuits.. Sure they may have killed thousands of our brave Sikh youth but they didn't get the rest of the Sikh youth, the generation that's growing now, all around the world... And they tried so hard to break our spirit but maybe now they've realized they had impossible goals.. They can dream on about breaking the Sikh spirit but it will never happen anyway.. you see, they never wanted us to make it anyway... everything that belonged to us already, we had to fight for... all i know is that in the end, truth will prevail.. lest we forget the wounds of 84..

We should try to always remember Mata Sahib Kaur, Mata Khivi Jee, Bibi Nanaki Jee, Mai Bhago Jee, etc. in our ardaas and stuff.. It's upto us to remember all the bahadur singhneea that died for this cause.. "Jina mataava ne aapne shotey shotey bachheyaa dhiaa shaheediya vekh ke thuhada bhanaa MITHA kar ke manneya.....Jina Bahadur Singhneea ne modey modey apney veeraa naal, ghoreya thay baikey, talwaara farkey, keskiya bankey, khalsa dhey jalma nu larhaiya vich mar key, FATEH BHULAI, jina singhneeya ne chun chun junglaa vich vaireeya nu maarkey, thuhadey charna thay baikey kurbaneeya kiteea..." its amazing if u think abt it... bcuz they forget all fear of their own deaths, of their own pain, in order to preserve the khalsa and keep the dream alive... in order to keep the khalsa jot shining forever, these women became real singhs and fought to the last drop of blood they had in them..

guru gobind singh said the guru granth sahib jee would be the sikh's spiritual guru forever and the khalsa panth would be the sikhs' physical guru forever... but usually people recognize it as 11 gurus rather than 12

what about "burning punjab" and sikhvision.com (i dunno if they have info on that on the site but you can go there and ask people cuz they have a forum) or you can go to waheguroo.com and look for it up there... or sikhseek and look for it there.. or saintsoldiers.cjb.net theres probably tons more but they're slipping my mind at the moment

It's so amazing because Guru Gobind Singh never even went there in his life but that's WHERE he was praying in his past life, when Vaheguroo actually SPOKE to him and told him the mission of his soul... And you know how Guru Gobind Singh Jee is always regarded as "baajaa vale, fauja vaale, kalgiyan vaale" ?? Well those were the 3 things Aurangzeb condemned at the time, and Guru Jee adopted all 3 to prove that the Sikh Kingdom was anokha, unique and different... Guru Jee had the fauja, baajaa, and the kalgi.. The *baaj* part of this is most interesting because baajaa are black hawk-like birds which are considered the finest specimen of birds altogether. They are warrior birds and it was said that Guru Gobind Singh had a special relationship with them, in that they would always help Guru Jee and stuff... the weird thing is that they say that when you go to hemkunt sahib, you get the darshan of those birds... even though guru jee never went there in his life.. its just another spiritual beauty about sikhi that no one can explain.. dhan guru gobind singh sahibbbbbbbb

'ek babaa akaal roop ... dooja rubaabee mardaanaa'

it was only Guru Gobind Singh that was rumoured to have had two "wives" - but he only had husband/wife relations with his one actual wife, and the other "wife" was regarded as the mother of the Khalsa (mata Sahib Kaur), but Guru Jee had to husband/wife relations with her... Her parents had wanted her to marry Guru Gobind Singh since she was young and they would not allow her to marry anyone else, so Guru Jee accepted her but did not see her in "that" way, as he already had a wife.. Thus when Mata Sahib Kaur asked if she will ever have children, Guru Gobind Singh told her how she'd have thousands of children....the Khalsa panth.. the Guru's preached and practiced utmost equality, getting rid of several disgusting cultural inequalities that were previously prevalent in the Brahmin/Muslim society of India at the time.... the Guru's came, and light was scattered everywhere... vaheguroo

vaheguru...

vaheguru jee kaa khalsa vaheguru jee kee fatheh sangat jee.. i've been thinking a lot about wearing a keski when i take amrit.. i think it's proper and it makes sense.. but tons of people discourage me everyday, saying girls don't need to, and it's not necessary, and "back in the day" when guru gobind singh jee was around, woman did not wear keskis.. the other day my grandmother told me that in guru gobind singh jee's time, woman were into fashions like wearing ghagras and crap... "girls didnt wear keskis, girls are supposed to wear chunis, the only girls that WOULD wear keskis wore them when they were going into battle, so they could look like boys... the tradition for girls, however, has always been to wear a chuni, thats all you need and should wear.." and other people have also said that there are tons of gurmukh girls who wear chunis or rumaals but they've still attained God.. and that if wearing a keski wasn't necessary for them, why should it be necessary for us? (that's what someone said to me, not what i'm saying) i may be considering what those people are saying, and it makes sense because i have seen a few gurmukh bibian that wear chunis/rumaals..... but for some reason something still is yanking inside at me and it wont go away...i really feel like i should wear one, some day, in the future, after i take amrit, i just really think i should... but i dont know if i have the guts.. and its hard putting up with all this stuff people are saying to me.. i don't know what's right or wrong, and there's no real evidence saying what side is right or wrong... for me right now even wearing a chuni/rumaal 24/7 seems hard because i'm not used to it, but wearing a keski seems nearly impossible to me right now...but in my heart it just feels so proper to wear one.. i don't know what's right or wrong, no one's taught me about this, my family isn't into sikhi at all...so i really don't know... and i have so many doubts, even about taking amrit....but whenever i think about guru gobind singh and the panj pyare and the sweet amrit, my knees get really weak and i want it so badly... but whenever society comes back and reminds me about how im "young" and should be "enjoying life" and how "you're only young once", blah blah blah blah, i get nervous and confused again.... although i still cant wait til the day i take amrit, im almost praying the day comes soon... im just confused.. about the whole keski thing... and im getting quite discouraged, but i dont know if its "ok" to wear a chuni/rumaal... i know it would be EASIER for me to wear a chuni/rumaal, at least at first, but there's something about wearing a keski...that seems so right...but im not ready...i DONT KNOW... does anyone have any advice... plz don't yell at me, i'm just telling you what people have said to me.. i'm sorry for saying anything against gurmat... please forgive me if ive offended anyone... much love sangat jee...forgive my ignorance and manmat