SikhKhoj

Bhai Vir Singh did bad by saying Punjabi was only the language of Sikhs - this while Punjabi is not really the language of Sikhs - Guru Granth Sahib doesn't have that much Punjabi in it. Pakistan has a rising movement of the languages of the provinces. While Sindhi, Pashtun and Balochi are not official languages in their respective provinces, the people still communicate in that language, while Punjabis prefer talking in Urdu as they feel it to be a language of ganwaars or paindus (uneducated people or 'villagers'). South Punjabis (actually Balochi settlers in South Punjab) are wanting a seperate province, Seraikistan, this has woken up some Punjabis in Pak. http://www.apnaorg.com/articles/plm-4/

I didn't get you, could you rephrase it?

Was just saying that maybe Kavi Kankan was not a Darbari poet afterall, and we shouldn't believe every historical Granth blindly - so nothing important. You started reading it yet?

Remember what I told you in private messages

ਵਿਸ਼ਿਆਂ - subjects

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Except the Amrit Sanchaar Banis and the year (1752 Bikrami - 1695 AD) all seems to be in line with current beliefs held by most of the Panth. Personally I find this to be quite dodgy too:

From Bhangus Panth Parkash, DalSingh linked

Yeah, RSS agent this that haha. Just ask the same question on Sikhsangat and you'll get called anything you could imagine 'rss' 'hindu' 'admin cut' 'sanatani'. Your right about no original manuscript of Guru Kian Sakhian. Yeah. If Guru does kirpa I will lay my hands on gold - just need some more information and a visit to Punjab.

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Hmm? I want no trouble, but what did you mean by that? You said Granth is similiar to our current view, so I said its possible our view has mostly evolved from this one source? Besides many other Granths were discovered later (such as Guru Kian Sakhian which was published in 1980s, Gur Katha in 1993, etc).

Maybe our modern narrative is based on that Granth, who knows? Its this Granth that says goats were done jhatka, something which is also quite prevalent amongst some Sikhs (especially older generation).

Yes Dal, it mostly is used to describe someone 'great' in a field but mostly scholars. ਸਾਹਿਤ is indeed literature.

A post from another forum:

Yes please do.

Thats interesting, but shouldn't stop us from doing our own research with much more sources.

No problem brother

Suraj Prakash Raas 3 Ain 19 deals with Vaisakhi Amrit Sanchaar. http://www.ik13.net/PDFS/Rut3.pdf Any way we can copy paste the needed text?

ਸੰਮਤ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੌ ਚਉਰੰਜਾ ਗਏ | ਦਿਨ ਚੇਤ੍ਰ ਦੇ ਅਠਾਈ ਬਾਕੀ ਰਹੇ | ਦਿਨ ਤੋ ਗੁਜਰੇ ਚੌਪਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੁਲਾਇਆ | ਦਰਬਾਰ ਲਗਾ ਹੋਯਾ ਦੀਵਾਨ ਦੋਨੇ ਪਾਸ ਬਹਾਇਆ | ੩੧੬ | The year 1754 Bikrami (1697 AD) passed. Twenty-eight days of the month Chet were left. When the day was falling, Chaupa Singh was called for. (The Gurus) court was being held, (and) both Diwans (ministers) were told to sit near (the Guru). ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ 'ਕਟੋਰਾ ਜਲ ਦਾ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਕਰ ਲੈ ਆਓ' | ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਦਿਤੀ ਕਰਦ ਕਹਿਆ ਹਿਲਾਊ | ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀ ਕਰ ਉਚਾਰੁ | ਤਾਂ ਦੀਵਾਨ ਸਾਹਿਬਚੰਦ ਹਥ ਜੋੜਿ ਖਲੋਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਦਰਬਾਰ | ੩੧੭ | (The Guru then said) 'Carefully bring a bow of water.' (Chaupa Singh) bhought it, (was) given a knife and the Guru told him to stir it. (The Guru) recited Japuji Sahib and Anand Sahib with his tongue. Then Diwan Sahib Chand stood with folded hands in the Court ਕਹਿਆ ਗਰੀਬਨਿਵਾਜ 'ਵਿਚ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਬਣੇ ਸੁਆਦੁ | ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੈ ਆਉ ਧਰਮਚੰਦ ਪਤਾਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ | ਪਤਾਸੇ ਪਵਾਏ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਦ ਹਿਲਾਈ | ਨਾਉ ਧਰਿਆ ਪਾਹੁਲ | ਇਹ ਪਾਹੁ ਲਗਾਈ | ੩੧੮ | (and) said, O Feeder of the poor, if sweet was added, then it would become delicious. (The Guru) said, 'Dharam Chand, bring Patasas. The Patasas were added (to the water) and stirred with the knife. The name (of the ceremony) was kept Pahul. ??ਇਹ ਪਾਹੁ ਲਗਾਈ??

I typed up the Vaisakhi stanzas from Kesar Singhs Bansawlinama. Can anybody confirm if the event description stops at verse 319 or continous? Thanks. ਸੰਮਤ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੌ ਚਉਰੰਜਾ ਗਏ | ਦਿਨ ਚੇਤ੍ਰ ਦੇ ਅਠਾਈ ਬਾਕੀ ਰਹੇ | ਦਿਨ ਤੋ ਗੁਜਰੇ ਚੌਪਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੁਲਾਇਆ | ਦਰਬਾਰ ਲਗਾ ਹੋਯਾ ਦੀਵਾਨ ਦੋਨੇ ਪਾਸ ਬਹਾਇਆ | ੩੧੬ | ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ 'ਕਟੋਰਾ ਜਲ ਦਾ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਕਰ ਲੈ ਆਓ' | ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਦਿਤੀ ਕਰਦ ਕਹਿਆ ਹਿਲਾਊ | ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀ ਕਰ ਉਚਾਰੁ | ਤਾਂ ਦੀਵਾਨ ਸਾਹਿਬਚੰਦ ਹਥ ਜੋੜਿ ਖਲੋਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਦਰਬਾਰ | ੩੧੭ | ਕਹਿਆ ਗਰੀਬਨਿਵਾਜ 'ਵਿਚ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਬਣੇ ਸੁਆਦੁ | ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੈ ਆਉ ਧਰਮਚੰਦ ਪਤਾਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ | ਪਤਾਸੇ ਪਵਾਏ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਦ ਹਿਲਾਈ | ਨਾਉ ਧਰਿਆ ਪਾਹੁਲ | ਇਹ ਪਾਹੁ ਲਗਾਈ | ੩੧੮ | Main outline: * his father Dharam Chand was a treasurer in Gurus court. * he tried to big up his father by crediting him for the Patasey. * Karad instead of Khanda * gives Amrit Sanchar being on 3(?) Chet 1697. * it gives the Amrit banis as Japji Sahib and Anand Sahib.

Okay, best of luck.

Google Books use kar leya kar prahva. Kartar Singh Bhalla Let's know Sikhism: a religion of harmony, brotherhood and tolerance 2002, Delhi, page 30 "The Guru invited a Muslim Saint, Mian Mir, to lay the foundation of Harmandir in 1589. It was completed in 1601."

You are just trying to translate it to make it in accordance to Gurmat. What about 'The Guru meditated to please Kalika during the time of the broadsword'. This was written in late 18th century so doesn't mean it is all authentic.

(2) ਮਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਹਾਂ, ਸੁਖਦੀ ਹਾਂ। is something that Bibian often do at Gurughars. Like Guruji gift me a son and I will charauna 500rs. Translation doesn't make much sense.

Any English book? Is possible.