Narsingha

...apparently from the reaction on the thread in question, it appears that holding hands is OK...as long as the people in question are both males.

(freaky)

Thanks for that...send the info to info@sarbloh.info and i'll forward it to Nihang Niddar Singh

..if a change is needed, then it'll be done...

..its up

Enjoy!

From current news reports, we have Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma, who has been denied a siropa from Akal Takht, and we have Baba Ram Singh who's been acknowledged as being the "15 Jathedar of DamDami Taksal".

Recent news also highlights that the SGPC has released documents/photos that prove Jarnail Singh Khalsa died in 1984: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050206/punjab1.htm#14

So, the questions arise:

a) Was Baba Thakur Singh a liar for propagating lies about Jarnail Singh's return? (In which case he isnt as 'chardi kala' as the Dam Dami Taksal made out)

Is Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma a liar for continuing Baba Thakur Singh's claims? (In which case, he too is not as 'chardii kala' either)

c) Is Baba Ram Singh, Jarnail Singh Khalsa's family, SGPC, Akal Takht, etc, liars for accepting Jarnail Singh's death?

Is the 'Dam Dami Taksal' now willing to accept the existance of a 2 groups, each believing the exact opposite with regards to theier 14th jathedar's existance/death?

References:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041225/punjab1.htm

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050102/punjab1.htm

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041228/punjab1.htm#6

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050103/punjab1.htm

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050117/punjab1.htm

Anyone wish to answer these queries/questions? Or set the record straight?

Also, the websites affiliated with 'Dam Dami Taksal' (ef, www.gursikhijeevan.com, etc) - which group are they now affiliated with - Baba Harnam Singh, or Baba Ram Singh?

Depends how long it takes my code to compile...

Just busy upgrading the servers before I plonk everything on....

aguptkaur, chances are that even if the letter is uploaded, people such as yourself, who appear to spend their time fighting for chickens to have the rights to a fair trial, will claim the letter is a forgery.

Q. Is this a get out clause for mainstream, modern Nihangs to abuse maryada? is this a flexible code?

A. There is a fine line between 'abuse' and 'flexibility' - and that is dependent on one's character, personality, sense of morality, ethics, etc. Granted that this may be seen as a 'get out clause' by many, but then again, if one wishes to 'abuse maryada', they will do so regardless of what the maryada is. Unlike mainstream Sikhism, Nihangs, and for that matter Sanatan Sikhs in general do not go around ensuring there is ONE maryada for everyone. It nurtures individual expression of Dharam - abuse of maryada is seen as weakness of character. Also, any attempt to overlay the mainstream Sikhism model to analyse Sanatan Sikhi as you are attempting to do will inevitably create conflict - the systems are inherently different - chalk and cheese.

Q. Can you please scan the letter and post it on this forum? If it is on the site, please point me to the link.

A. I'll be up soon - be patient.

Q. You asked if N30s friend is the sole authority on Budha Dal Maryada. Who is?

A. Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh Ji, being the Shromani Jathedar of the Budha Dal has the final say on all matters brought to his attention. Beyond that it gets more complex - too much to go into here, needless to say, if one does not agree with the views of an offically appointed Jathedar, they are welcome to take it up with Baba Santa Singh.

Q. Are you an authority on real Nihangs? Is Niddar Singh?

A. Nihang Niddar Singh can be considered an 'expert' on Nihangs, as he is both an appointed Jathedar of the Budha Dal (UK), and head of the Akali Nihang Baba Darbara Singh Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Ranjit Akhara. Those who do not agree with this are welcome to debate with him, and check out the extent of his expertise themselves. I, on the other hand possess a talent for annoying people.

Q. One more question - where and when was the word 'Nihang' coined. Please provide historical references.

A. Check out www.budhadal.org (it points to the relevant sections on www.sarbloh.info) and the information has been provided, along with historical references.

The new update for www.sarbloh.info should be up on 14th Feb, which will add additional info with regards to the topics raised in this thread.

Chocolate is the answer...doesnt matter what the question is.

"Don't live each day like its ure last - live each BREATH like it is your last! "

...you mean like posting on internet forums. Oh Twadi!

Oh here we go again, put everything into lil boxes and ignore the shades of grey..

Sooner or later, everyone will have to deal with shades of grey - then again, there is Nice'n'Easy :wink:

Arey hoi fudhu panth deh humdardi chelay,

Terey panth meh khotey, goondey aur galli keh kuttay.

Khassi fauj aur maya keh khoob dasi,

Adharmi! Rakhshas! Tum gurbani keh virodi!

Sura, degh, gangajal yeh humari maryada,

Shikaar, dhai phat, aur shastar ki mahavidiya.

Soormay Sri MahaKaal Chandika keh poojari,

Chatka karo vaddeh mahabali.

Asli marg heh Guru keh Nihang Singh Khalsay,

Rahnboomhi meh gajjay humarey Singho keh jaikaray.

Jai Jai Sri Mahakaal, Jai Jai Sri Chandika!

Khanna Tera Karab

Tera mhoo vich karaogay pashab

Teri Ma Hai Khutti

Mai Maaroonga Teri Jhutti

Salotari Nihang Singh Avangey Fer Bond vich salotar fasavangey.

That last line could be interpreted in a myriad of ways...

Sikher, just remember, sometimes words have dual meanings. :wink:

Canadians...tsk

Also Notice there are 3 types if Personality in this world

Saatvic - Those who have crossed or on the Edge of crossing the Bridge

Rajvic - Those who are in the middle and need to be Helped across by holding their hands.

Tamsic - Those who have not even thought about crossing the bridge

Thats not quite true.

These are just one of the many 'qualities' of an individual that provide the ingredients that adds to the sum total that is their personality.

Also, everyone has ALL 3 qualities: (Satto - truth, honesty, etc, Rajjo - dynamism, curiousity, fluid energy, etc., and Tammo - ingorance, stubborness, cold, cool, dark, despair, etc.).

These qualities just differ in their quantities according to time, space, circumstance, karams and kirpa. If anything, one tends to be a blend of all 3 at any one time.

Hari, thanks for the cosmic perspective...but the post was in reference to the concept of basic human biology here...ie, flesh and bones.

Should we employ the super cosmos theory as you suggest, then in essence we are never born and never die, as Akaal resides in everyone.

btw, very nice Avatar - looks like he could do with a lassi to cool himself down

Avtars are manifest (ie, "pargat"). The Gurus were BORN, hence their material bodies would suffer the ravages of time, and would perish.

The soul is eternal - it survives.

The Gurus themselves have stated that something that is BORN must DIE - but according to Karmjeet, the Gurus were hipocrites and never died.

The views represented by Karmjeet are typical of some factions of Sikhism that wish to turn it into another semetic religion with their revisionist attitude.

Very nice..

N30Singh, is it possible to post the Nanaksar-approved image of Akali Guru Nanak Devji (you can see one in the 3rd pic - in the background).

Thanks in advance

We had around 3 people film the talks simultaneously. From what I gather, we have some ppl editing the clips. Once thats complete, some hocus-pocus is done, and it goes online.

Rough dates - probably early Summer considering the schedule is already jam packed.

Sukhi, I'm not too keen on berries (despite the reference to 'jam' earlier)...but some Canadian Maple Syrup wudnt be so bad...

yup

The slides from all talks:

a) 4 Sanatan Sikh talks in London

Shastar Vidiya talk at Kings College London

c) Sanatan Sikh talk at Warwick Uni

d) Upcoming talk on Sikh women at Warwick Uni

....will all be coming shortly on www.sarbloh.info (..just as soon as my code decides to stop being so hormonal!!)

pretty dumb statement. its quite obvious why. they believe that if there was a khalistan then it would lead to a cessation of certain abuses, namely the abuses perpetuated by the indian security apparatus against sikhs for merely being sikhs.

Human Rights and Khalistan are 2 separate issues. If not, then by analogy, you are suggesting that ONLY pro-Khalistanis experienced Human Rights abuse at the hands of the GOI, which is a lot of rubbish.

The point being made is that groups such as the "S.F" are hijacking the Human Rights issue (which extends to Dalits, Kashmiris, Tamils, etc) into one that promotes their political agenda.

We are all aware of killings of Hindus and Sikhs (who owned shops that sold meat and/or alchohol, ran newspapers, nihangs, singers, even udasis, etc) by so-called 'Kharkoos' in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Were these people agents of the GOI too?

What guarantee is there that Human Rights violations will not occur under a "Khalistan"? Mainstream Sikhi already sees Jathedars being sacked on a weekly basis, honour killings of family members by politicians, corruption, etc. - and this is occuring without the full freedom that the 'Khalistanis' desire.

Reality check. Modern politically-motivated Sikhs cant even get along in Gurdwaras, turning it into a pind-against-pind fight - let alone run a soveriegn state. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

(To the 'moderator', sometimes sarcasm needs to be utilised to put things into perspective.)

Anyway, good luck for the meeting.

What will we do about Panth Virodi Agents Hey??? So what if SF (UK) is ISYF or whatever? edited

what are you doing for the Panth? What have you done for the Panth??

At Least SF(UK) are active and get off their backsides to do something, rather thatn slander other Sikh Organisations????

go back into your kennel, people like you will never let Sikhi Prevail.

You're very correct, the S.F. are very 'active' againt 'Panth Virodi Agents' (damn you guys are great at inventing new terms!!).

Lets....eermmm...have another riot or..*ponders*..perhaps threaten a woman and her family...or...eerm..lets see now...we could always ban bhangra and dancing...?

Mod's Note: Stop the pointless bickering. That goes for everyone squabbling in this thread.

N30Singh, please ask him to answer his phonecalls before accusing me of not calling him...

..and try not to get too personal, you're making it sound like I turned down your marriage proposal.

Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh provided Nihang Niddar Singh with a letter confirming his position as Jathedar of the Budha Dal in the UK while ago.

There was no need to make this information public - until that is certain people/groups started questioning his affiliation with the Budha Dal. The trigger for this was the first release of www.sarbloh.info which introduced the term 'admin cut. The website also set the record straight with regards to real Nihangs and imposters who dupe people into THINKING they are Nihangs, ie, by selectively adopting/rejecting aspects of Nihang Maryada and condemning practices such as Chatka/Sukha/Tilak/Shiv Swaroop.

Later, these same people/groups started to exclaim that the Nihangs of the UK are a "rogue element" who are not representing the Budha Dal correctly. They also hijacked the term 'admin cut' (possibility due to the lack of creative ability) and began referring to the Nihangs of the UK as 'Nangs'.

This anger is the reaction to the information being released on the Sanatan Sikh websites which is directly affecting their interests in propagating their own blend of Sikhism and recruitment processes.

Anyway, thats about it....not much point in taking this thread any further because not everyone will see eye to eye on this issue, and it will end up getting personal.