Gupt Singh

Yo nads yeh your right

But I mean with Bhai Harjinder Singh.....hes not a bad person.....hes a Gursikh no doubt and hasnt done a major paap or anything.....but I know for a fact that he does do 1 or 2 things that probably hinder him from getting to really awesomely high spiritual levels......Im not judging or anything......lol Im nt really expressiving myself to well.....all Im saying is.....we are all dumbass moorakhs.....so we cant judge others......but that doesnt mean the faces u see plastered on CD covers are totally free from the 5 enemies.....I wont say anymore otherwise it might turn into nindya

The stitched turban must be new, since there wasnt even such a thing as a pleated phug in Gurus times. Dumalla 4 Life!

what about gursikhs who do 24/7 naamjap and do jhatka? wont they b doing prayers over the death? or wat about the ppl who do do paath blatantly whilst murdering the animal?

i see jhatka and halal as very similar.

bhai harjinder singh is a great keertanee in terms of his voice but if you know alot about him ull know why the more spiritually gifted wont feel as much "raas" from his keertan as opposed to "less commercial" keertanees........im nt dissing him........all im saying is dnt use him 2 compare 2 urself, do what is right 4 u........cuz sum ppl arent as perfect as u wud tink.............

the janamsakhis arent exactly 100percent reliable....i trust dasam granth more......

besides.......you have wisdom.......who gave it to u? god obviously......god gives everyone everything......mo wasnt differnet in that respect

did u know that an animal feels little or no pain when it is halalified?

virtually no difference in pain when jhatkaed?

your not gonna get sacked for having a out dhari......i know adults who hav their dharis untied and do office jobs. in the interview they arent going to say "urm we will give u the job, but only if u tie up your beard" :roll:

if worst coems to worst, tie it up for ur interview then let it out free all the other time.

think about it, in gurujis time there was most need for a tied dhari.......nihung singhs with huge bushy 1s goin out into the battlefield......theres a chance it might get slashed by a blade.....and i doubt they put chakars on it lol.......so they could have tied it to make it less likely to be sliced up......but they never compromised gurus form in any way

whats the intention behind the action?

would gurujis wife get a piercing or a tattoo?

i wouldnt class piercings and tattoos just as bad as removing hair. there are plenty of messed up paintings, dont trust everything you see.

i think tyed dharis give the impression they are trimmed. to tye the dhari is hiding it from the outside world. sikhi doesnt ban it, but i think it definately doesnt encourage it. dhari tying was a trend started by maharaja duleep singh

yo amandeep singh......soz if i offended u.......dnt woz ur dhari looks ok......personally i just leave mine alone maybe thats y its a bit messy lol......i was just dissin peeps who wrap funny things under their chin....aite?

trust a dumalla can look REALLY neat if u have the right material and practise.......punjabi phugs i dnt really like so i just do a neat or gangstah looking dumalla depending on the occassion

pretied turbans are silly. why dont u buy a pretied turban in a shop....

for older ppl maybe its ok, so soz if ive offended ny1, for them its ok, but for ur average singh it is definately NOT ok....those WW2 "singhs" looks silly with their dhari crushed against their face lol

what looks funniest is those big straps that ppl put round their chin.....again no offence 2 any strapwearers here

yo bhaji

dont worry about it

now and again little things happen to me

i feel bad for a few days then get over it, do ardas if ur feeling bad

for example once i had a meat pizza at pizza hut buffet (back in my eating-out days).....i was like "urghhhhh this pizza is dirty" and there were chunks of pig stashed under the cheese!

n another time some tiiiny amount kesh came off when i was doing haard martial arts conditioning....u will feel bad for a bit, bt if it wasnt intentional then u havent done that bad

its ranbir singh not bhai randhir singh. book looks interesting tho.

sikh missionary society, featherstone road, southall. its 30 quid there.

nah soz i was lookin for an english trans since my reading skills/non-general vocab in punjabi aint too hot ........ so it will probs have to be the pritpal singh bindra translation

for now i still give it the benefit of the doubt since i havent seen anything anti gurmat yet, and really, i cant debate on something which i havent read!

lol gwan then it wud b funny to rip it out of the arya samaji guy....im redy when u r

safe

well i didnt manage 2 get hold of the book seriously, im gnna leave this debate for a bit...uve got hte upperhand for now cuz i really cant discuss something which i havent even read fully.......anyways ill start anotha thread on it l8a when i get a copy....

but you are using "bhai" kala afgana as a base for some of ur ideas........do u know what else kala afgana has said? do u agree with his views on the entire dasam granth? on amrit? if so, then i can understand why u dont accept tc404 if u cant even accept akal ustati!

4 now....hopefully sum clever ppl like my best friends lallehsvari and n30 can give their input a bit more

btw.........what was ur user name when i was on the arya samaji sikh hate site?

david blaine is SUCH a fake. i used to think he could do real stuff but hes just a showoff egotistical PAKHANDEE!

with the thing hes doin at the moment, i bet he will put vitamins and stuff in his water that hes taking

if he wasnt in the glass box, i would have gone down into town and try 2 hit him with my slingshot

bhai fauja singh beat the living daylights out of a bahman who refused to stop smoking in a small space near him.....

i also heard that he cut off someones head with an axe with 1 stroke when they harassed a singhnee and tried to kill him

My mistake, I did read at the Gobind Sadan site that the Treah Charitar was written only ...in the date u mentioned on the side of the river Satluj. (Although there is somehting like Sudi Ashtami mentioned...)

there is authentic signatures of guruji before and after and during (probably) triyah charitrer.....how can u say it is not bani?

Anyway I truly believe that Guru Ji was JaaniJaan, but in fact Treah Charitar seems to depict quite the opposite.

have u read all hte chartirers? in their original language? which translation did u use?

For one you can take the quote given in my post above. (I have typed in English what I had in Gurmukhi letters in front of me). That NO ONE can know about the mysteries of womens' mind, child in womb

read akal ustat which highlights the paradoxical nature of waheguru. waheguru is no one but waheguru is everyone. he is sargun and nirgun. he is both here and there. everywhere but no where. hence i see no contradiction.

Also many of the stories are either mythological and made out to be mythological, although they bear a historical reference. One such Charitar is Sikandar's charitar and Sassi Punnu's charitar. I will give you the exact references in terms of Charitar Numbers.

there are plenty of mythological references in SGGS and DG. whats ur point?

However before I reply comprhensively to u, I would like to ask you a single question .... What is the meaning of 'Kabyio Baach'. According to the scholars and some religious people it means that 'I say' that is Guru Maharaj says that 'I say'.

and?

What do u think Kabi Baach means ? Do consult a scholar if you want to ..

i dont see how its relevant. or maybe im just confused and deluded.

Just for the Record...I havent ever said that all of Dasam Granth is not Guru Gobind singh Ji's baani.....<Please note>.

It is some portions like Treah Charitar which do not qualify as authentic baani.

you reject it becuz u cant believe ur guru could write it. YOU CANT BELIEVE. emphasis on that. there is no historical evidence to prove guru didnt write it. its your own opinion, what is this against hard evidence of signatures in the 1696 bir?

Anyway u have evaded the question, as to why Guru Gobind Singh Ji woudl mention the use of sexual positions, dildos. Isnt it sufficent to mention just kaam.

because it drives the message home better? do u have any idea how many sikhs including gursikhs and even some amritdharis are commiting affairs and lust filled acts? if they all read the 404 stories they might change their ways.

why not just say "praise god, work hard, share, be honest" and why have 1430 pages in the guru granth?

The mention of Kaam does come in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but in a very subtle manner. There is no elborate explanation of the physical love of humans.

so? theres no violent poems like chandi stories either.

Regarding the couplet ....would u mind reading one of my posts above, if it is not too much trouble for you.

cant find it

Hakayts? Are they a part of the Dasam Granth or not..Authenticity issues...?? Please elaborate.

if u want to discuss it start another topic.

One last thing: You say: Gurmukhs are easy going like that ????

What is this supposed to mean. That they dont take a stand on whats right or wrong and dont even make their view known to other people when it matters.

once your a gurmukh you will understand. they dont like getting involved in silly little arguments/"debates" like we are.

I think Gurmukhs are 'Kathni Karni de Poore'

I dont understand the point in not objecting when the committe was in session and later on saying that it is not correct !!

ill be honest u havent given me any substantial evidence that triyah charitrer isnt gurbani other than u cant get ur head round the subject matter.

go to that gobind sadan website. baba virsa singh will pay for your transport fares, accomodation and food if you visit his institute and debate over the dasam granth and its contents if u feel you have a valid argument. its true - it says it on teh website.

have a debate with him. he is knowledgable. dont debate with a moorakh 16 yr old who hasnt even read all of what we are actually discussing.

BTW im going away for the weekeend but when i come back hopefully ill b loaded with 2 volumes of the 404 stories so i can check them out more fully.

generally gurbani doesnt concern itself with such topics as it is focussed on praise of god.

however there are a number of hints.

there is a shabad which describes creation of the universe. it says that god created gas, and from gas came water. (this is inline with big bang and creation of planets.) then it says from water came all life - ie we all evolved from the water.

there is a line in the granth which has been translated literally as "he himself directs the evolution of this world" and the concept of creation sustaining destruction also fits in with this.

from this science is 100percent inline with gurbani, and there are plenty of other passages like talking of the egg and sperm etc which no other holy book mentions (they think its "congealed blood" which makes a baby lol)...i havent given any page references but there was a topic on creation of the world a while ago that you could search for giving page references.

yo ill try n answer ur questions

"Hey, fateh, i was listening to a this sant's CD, & they stated that a sikh who eats "maaas"(meat) , drinks "daaruu" , and removes his/her hair is not considered a Sikh....I obvioulsy agreed at first but after careful consideration-isnt a sikh a learner? therefore they may be commiing this 'offence' but still learning about it aswell"

well......bhai gurdas says "one is only a sikh of the guru once he has been blessed with amrit"

sikh means disciple....one is only admitted into the gurus "school" once they have taken amrit and become part of the khalsa....providing he is not expelled (does one of the 4 bad things) he is a sikh of the guru (disciple) in the khalsa (school).

"another thing is-actually knowing about what is wrong or rite...eg. i heard some maahaaan fella say-"those who used to have dastaar etc, and now have removed their hair, should no be spoken to""

if someone has taken amrit and have broken it by committing one of the 4 big no-no's (eating kuttha, removing hair, smoking, adultery) then they are kicked out of the panth and are known as patits. gursikhs (amritdharis) arent supposed to socialise excessively with them (ie big discussions, invite them to house etc) until they rejoin the khalsa, or if they dont want to do that, convert to another religion i guess.

it is important to remember what a big commitment amrit is, and exactly how bad the 4 things are.

"lol...-and another thing...i got to college rite, and this faggot of a 'sikh' smokes weed and drinks and eats meat. + his family has the SGGSJ in da house- and he tells me that it was his duty to do the "sukhasan" of baba ji everyday, i was FURIOUS!...his dad is amrithari (tharkhan)...but his mom,, welll she eats meat, cuts hair and, lol, drinks 'beer'(she has beer belly trust me)..."

dang.......

"the dad apparantly is the best cooker of meat in their family...i actually questioned his dad one time in gurdwara because he tried to give all the punjabi class students a sweet which contained egg white....he told me that it is not his duty to preach to kids and his own kids...."

thats really really really WRONG.....dont allow it........tell him that its not his duty to try and put anti-sikhi in other people :wink:

"i swear i was proper FURIOUS...but anyway, what shud i tell/(DO) to the weed smoker, his pops dont know nething about it..."

to be honest i dont think his dad would care much from what i can tell....if you eat meat you arent really a sikh.....if you are friendly with the "faggot" sikh then i wouldnt tell.....but if u arent friendly then tell him that ur gonna tell his dad and give him 1 week to quit. if u catch him afta (or can smell it after) then tell his dad.

just my opinion.....i mite b wrong

niranjana

i fail to see the un-scientificness in 10 month pregnancy.....from conception to birth its usually about 10 months exactly!

the fire means that the time in teh womb is painful, possibly because of a lack of gyan or not being about to realise waheguru.

"So Soulja ji the Granth was compiled even before Khalsa Came into being ? Great !! (So all of the compositions related to Khalsa ....Khalsa mero roop hai khaas [which I believe are authentic] were composed before 1699 !!!"

that is part of the sarbloh granth which is added to the dasam granth by bhai mani singh. and if it was in there, would u have a problem believing it since guruji created the khalsa and is all knowing?

"Ohh and my apologies Soulja Ji. I dont have as much knowledge of gurbaani as you do."

i never said i had more gyan then you.

"You give the reference to Anup Kaur's story. I wonder how you knew I was going to raise this one with you ? Does this story speak highly of the character of Amritdhaari women?"

no the kaur is not mentioned in the "story". anup "kaur" wasnt baptised till afterwards, when she became a model singhnee. i dont know how that relates to the story in tc404

"

Isnt this a concocted story to blemish the character of Khalsa?"

no, its mentioned even by john (white) historians.

"Think before you speak much less leap ?"

yeah, thats the one :roll:

"However, Niranjana , you have gone too far...the quotations given in Guru Granth Sahib refer to the breasts of the mother, my dear honeybug?"

so? theres no war poetry in SGGS does that mean that chandi stories are fake?

"Dont you find any difference in these wordings and the wordings of the Treah Charitar expressions like Chumna Chatna and things like Dildo .... Chapti?"

because dasam granth bani is not imitating the style of guru granth bani it is fake?

"The again you refer to the Chadi Charitar wherein I quoted that no one can know about the mystery of the child in the womb ? and the you again equate it to quoatations from Guru Granth Sahib Ji and say that the fire doe not refer to the actual fire. Yes it is true that the fire does not refer to the actual fire."

indeedy.

"But what other meaning can you come up with from the couplet I quoted. I will be much obliged if you can throw some light on the new meaning ?"

im confused, quote the couplet again lol. and please give me a transliteration into its original language (braj?) aswell.

"Again is it only Women, who's minds mystery cannot be known? Can the mystery of mens mind be known with utmost ease."

there is a line in chandi charitrer which says "whoever reads this will be liberated". u cant take the line literatally, mukti comes from many things. same with the above quote. it just means that the mind of a woman is complex. which is true.

"Have you read about Sikander's Charitar?"

who? please enlighten me.

"Anyway I will write in further detail in a day giving all the quotations and also the page numbers."

safe.

"Dasam Granth of 1699 . Wow thats a new one Khalsa Soulja."

lol.....1696......

Chaupaee (verse)

"The Charitropakhyan compilation of Dasam Granth was completed on Sunday, the 8th day of the month of Bhadon, in 1753 Bikrami Sammat (August 24, A.D.1696), on the bank of the river Satluj."

(Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, Charitropakhyan 404)

http://www.dasamgranth.org/dasamgranth/

"What was the need for Guru Gobind Singh Jee to sign this Granth ?

Have we witnessed anything of a similar nature for our beloved Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. "

yes we have, silly, there are loads of signatures all over the kartarpuri bir!

im getting the impression that u dont actually know that much about what you are slandering.

"Please read the history of how Dasam Granth was compiled. Whats its original name was and how it became dassam granth and the dasam sri gur granth sahib."

there are looooooads of names that the dasam granth could be. but theres still a hand written copy that was finished in 1696

"And ultimately now that its Prakash is done at an equal level with Guru Granth Sahib and people consider Dasam Granth as their Guru and also bow before it."

dasam granth is not the guru in the same was SGGS is, but dasam granth is gurbani and still deserves upmost respect..

"he Granth was compiled by Bhai Mani Singh upon request of the Sangat (The whol incident is related to the rigteous killing of Massa Ranghar)."

do you think that there were random scraps of paper lying around that bhai mani singh just found sitting about?

"Surely there is a lot of reference to the bonding of the soul to God in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but please remember that it is referred to for a spirtual state, not physical."

yes but there is a parallel drawn between ravishing the soul bride and achieving mukti. whether u like it or not, thats got a subtle sexual undertone.

"You are telling me to explain the moral of each story. How about you give me the moral of the stories I mentioned in my earlier mail. Stories to which people like Piara Singh Padam refer to as the experiences of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Isnt this shame ?"

you will have to wait till teh weekend when i get a copy of it myself to read fully. then quote whatever story you want and i will find you a strong moral from it. if you can translate me the entire story in a unbiased manner i will also derive a moral from it.

there was someone called anup kaur who tried to seduce the guru but failed miserably. her story is also in the triyah charitrer stories under a different name i think.

"Again the blame is on SGPC."

the sgpc were the ones who said it wasnt gurbani. taksal akj and nihungs seem to be fine with it.

"I am fan of SGPC, rather would be critic, but facts remain facts. Do you know the names of the Committe Members of the Rehat Maryada Committe. As far as I can remember one of the members was the highly respected Bhai Randhir Singh."

bhai sahib thought keski was a kakkar but u dont see that in the sgpc rehat. same for kuttha issues etc. gurmukhs are easy going like that, they dont force their opinions on anyone.

you can quote as many names as you like, but everyone makes mistakes. did you know that the famous gyani ditt singh didnt believe in the ragmalla and thought it was part of a love story? same with bhai sahib randhir singh (although he may have changed his view late in life, we dont know) .... incidentally bhai randhir singh did a huge study on the dasam granth, mostly using the bir that i talked about that was compiled in 1696, to prove every line of it was gurbani.

hello i am a newbie to the forum also

having asked people or guessing what ppl think (most people wont actually say why or give a BS excuse) it is (in order of importance)

1. being frightened to appear different/less fashionable in society

2. being frightened that you might not find a boyfriend/girlfriend so easily

3. there is a reputation of being backward/too "traditional" associated with turbans

4. not seeing a need to keep hair today (ie not know enough about sikhi and its past)

5. havent been introduced to the spiritual side of sikhi so see it as a ritual/see all religion as a ritual and would rather get drunk, pass out and wake up in a pile of their own vomit the next day

i dont think its the hassle of keeping a phug/long hair. its a lot harder to continually get haircuts, shave and wax (it seems boys and girls do all three now) then it is to tie a phug (i can do mine in under 4/5 mins now) in the morning....i think the main reason is society......if all monneh lived in a pind where everyone else was kesadhari they wouldnt be the slightly bit inclined to removing their hair

with the women looking like men thingy, i actually disagree, in kapur singhs book he says men have tried to look like women (no facial hair) and women have tried to look like men (cut their hair short) which is kinda true. no one seems content with how god created us :cry:

dhariwalhs

please explain to me how triyah charitrer got into the 1696 copy of the dasam granth, which has guru gobind singhs signatures ALL OVER IT, including in triyah charitrer. lol, its not like its a 1 or 2 line interpolation, it takes of half the granth!

if you believe that triyah charitrer is pornographic, then tell me what constitutes pornography. every single story in the bani has a strong moral behind it of some kind or another. in SGGS there is plenty of mention of the happy soul bride being "ravished" by her husband lord....should we get rid of that too?

porno is when there is sexually explicit material for sexual enjoyment. how bout u read every single stories in triyah charitrer and tell me each story had no moral, and was purely to incite sexual passion (kaam raas? lol) in the reader.

what i dont understand is how some people on this forum admit they masturbate and think its ok aswell, but then on the other hand people start crying when they read stuff that is remotely linked to sex. peeps in the SGPC who claim triyah charitrer is evil are the same corrupt people who horde loads of money and do loads of dirty and sordid things in their lifetime....if anything the 404 stories should be a strong and vivid warning from entertaining sexual thoughts at all...

to begin with i made the mistake of believing that the entire dasam granth was not gurbani but then i corrected myself and realised not only how narrow minded i was but also how much of a beating i was gonna get karma wise for slandering or doubting gurbani......

there are parts of chandi di var which are pretty violent.....imagine reading the bit where chandi rips out some demons intestines with her sword to a sangat full of old ladies with frail hearts.....will u complain about that too?

o. sorry bout that, didnt quite understand wat u meant. yeah maybe u got a point, i dnt really know enough about that whole thing.

but either way, gurbani is divine and the words in SGGS and DG are divinely inspired. there are loads of lines in which it says something like "as He inspires me to speak these words, so do i speak them" and i remember one that is something like "gurb ani is from the primal being" ...... obviously they are not written like "I AM YOUR GOD PRAISE ME THIS IS GOD TALKING" but they were revelations over a long period of time............