guv

It may have been Davinder Panesar... I've heard him use that interpretation of "simran" in a talk

Could the fourth type of samadhi on the list you posted not be sehaj samadhi?

ie it's not achieved through effort or need, but something that happens spontaneously, naturally. So sehaj samadhi is a form of nirvikalp samadhi... which would fit in with the shabad as it states that when sehaj is within the gurmukh, they are affected by neither sleep nor hunger, neither pleasure nor pain.

I couldn't really understand a lot of the second article you posted... there's a lot of vocab in there I didn't understand... so I could be way off on my above assertion.

So is it the emptyness or the void that Buddhist talk about when they attain Nirvana ?

Because Buddhists don't believe in the permanence of the soul, neither do they believe in a higher power/God. They believe ones goal is to extinguish the karmic energies that are reborn, and attain Nirvana, emptiness.

From tSingh's Bhavrasamrit, I believe the state you're referring to is called shunya, the void. The "goal" in terms of Gurmat is turiya, which is beyond the waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep states. It is where only Brahman exists.

tSingh could explain more.

I think I found the shabad you quoted, though you've got two lines mixed together:

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5478

guramukh a(n)thar sehaj hai man charriaa dhasavai aakaas ||

Within the Gurmukh is intuitive peace and poise; his mind ascends to the Tenth Plane of the Akaashic Ethers.

thithhai oo(n)agh n bhukh hai har a(n)mrith naam sukh vaas ||

No one is sleepy or hungry there; they dwell in the peace of the Ambrosial Name of the Lord.

naanak dhukh sukh viaapath nehee jithhai aatham raam pragaas ||16||

O Nanak, pain and pleasure do not afflict anyone, where the Light of the Lord, the Supreme Soul, illuminates. ||16||

Your post seems to suggest that nirvakalap samadhi is a stage above sehaj samadhi... correct me if I'm wrong.

But the shabad above actually refers to sehaj.

At the end, there is nothing just nirvakalp samadhi.

What is the difference between nirvakalp samadhi and sehaj samadhi?

Thanks N3O!

"Naishkaram and upholding maryada supports bhakti or gyan, or of itself is rewarding and may result in a better jeevan next janam."

Does that imply that karam marg is not a means to mukhti?

They're not actually the same either in practice or essence.

The focus of different margs is in some cases totally contradictory. Take for example the madhavis or the gaudiyas who feel that those who experience the nirgun chetan form of parbraham have mistaken the kiran coming from the suraj for the suraj itself, hence their total opposition to 'mayavadi' vedanta as that which leads nowhere. Their goal is through total desireless, motiveless and highly emotional bhakti to reach a state of companionship with krishan bhagvaan in the highest realm of krishna, spending eternity in his company. that is quite at odds with the kaivalya mukti that sikhi upholds. while desireless devotion is an essential part of sikhi, the final state is turiya.

Furthermore, karam marg is a means to preparing oneself to then engage with gyan. Naishkaram and upholding maryada supports bhakti or gyan, or of itself is rewarding and may result in a better jeevan next janam.

The nature of bhakti, karma or gyan is dependent upon the underlying existential model of the tradition...i.e. if jiv and ishvar are two seperate categories, with chetan and jarr both being real distinct categories as some schools hold...then that defines your highest goal. So Sikhi while making bhagti fundamental to practice, upholds the goal of jnana/gyan as the highest experience...the nonduality of consciousness.

hope that helps.

Thanks T... although I'm not sure whether that's made things clearer or more confusing!

From what I understand, in Sikhi the goal of bhakti marg is turiya (the nonduality of consciousness) a state beyond the physical or sargun. Whereas there are others for whom the final state of bhakti is a state of eternal ecstatic love for Krisha... in essence still a state of duality. (?)

"Furthermore, karam marg is a means to preparing oneself to then engage with gyan."

Could you expand on that please?

Also, what are Naishkaram and jarr?

Thanks for your replies.

Atam Gyam or Bhramgyan may be the destination, but my question was depending on which Marg you follow... will you necessarily be "looking for Gyan"?

It brings to mind:

raaj n chaaho mukath n chaaho man preeth charan kamalaarae ||

Mukti is the ultimate destination, but it's not what we should be "looking for".

I think Matheen answered my question.

das, what is "Salgram"?

I asked my mate what I'd have to do to run for President of SGPC. He said I have to:

1. Line my pockets with money from the golak every chance I get

2. Buy votes with alcohol, drugs and more alcohol

3. Kill my daughter

I can do 1 and 2, but not 3... do you think they'll still let me run?

Oh, and definitely Tirath for Jathedar!!

“He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier stillâ€

A picture of the Anandpuri Bir of Dasam Granth containing the handwriting of Guru Gobind Singh(17th C).

Was Dasam Granth not compiled after Guru Gobind Singh Ji?

Many roads, one destination.

That doesn't answer my question.

How is someone adopting Karam Marg or Bhakti Marg looking for Gyan?

The bottom line is that ultimately one is looking for "Gyan" whatever of the three margs they choose to adopt.

Niranjana, could you please expand on that?

Excuse me, but are you trying to say the sikh panth also includes teddy bears and kimono wearing stick puppets???? I don't know if they're following maryada

Fanatic!

Hater!

LOL!!!!

428,898 AD.... official end of Kaljug, for everyones info.

Hindu Fiction or Scientific Fact ?..... Only "time" will tell.....

Crap... I just booked a cruise to the Caribbean then... looks like I'll have to cancel my plans! :?

Well not killing girls would be a nice start...

By "we" I was referring to people on this forum...

It's forbidden for us Sikhs to do it under threat of excommunication and yet Panjabi Sikhs are the worst when it comes to that and have the balls to criticise Shi'as. Get real people. Iran isn't Disneyland but 2/3 of students there are women and they are far more educated and cultured than Panjabis. That's my point. Everytime I post something on Islam I get served the same racist stereotypes that never apply to us Shi'a. So as a reply I just like to remind you people of certain realities that are statistically accurate namely: your community is made of daughter killers. Sad but true!

How do you suggest we improve the situation?

From my understanding, mann is the part of the mind that communicates with the outside world, ie the 10 indriya. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Where does the doubt fit in? Is it doubt as to what the senses are saying? Doubt in what to tell the karmindriya to do? Or something else?

Of course, it does however require people to think before they act which is always a problem for some (guv springs to mind), and not a problem necessarily encountered in other traditions where people are conditioned into shunning things without really knowing why.

I always think before I act!!!... except when I don't.

I take offence to your accusations & I curse you... may you be reborn as a lesbian!!

"*" *=2

Is that a riddle?

Or a "subtle" hint to the solution of the riddle I posted above?

shakilactopingpong 4: Apache helicopter does down (the japanese noise remix album)

Can I get some of whatever you're taking?

Hehe... round & round & round we go...

You do not become sattvik simply by eating dal and chaval. It would be great if it were that simple. Tamogunik food, generally makes you feel bloated and lazy. Doesn't mean you'll be angry, only apathetic (thats the quality of tamogun, apathy).

The aspect of the khalsa that is tamogun is the yudh khalse. Correct me if I'm wrong. If tamogun is laziness & apathy, how does that fit the model?

I believe the japanese do sleep like most species, but I am not sure that they sleep as much as punjabi's as punjabi's are tribal orangutangs

Will you be my guru?

Here's an easy one:

roooooot

o...........r

o...........o

t...........o

roooooot

just "flashback"

well done forwardbackwards