johnyork Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Good answers Bhagat Singh Ji. ਮੈਨੂੰ ਅਫ਼ਸੋਸ ਹੈ । <= This sentence has 3 words. Can you please identify the subject, object and verb? 1) ਮੈਨੂੰ = 2) ਅਫ਼ਸੋਸ = 3) ਹੈ = According to Punjabi grammar rules, ਮੈਨੂੰ can not be the subject of this sentence. So, what is the subject? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 1 subject 2 object 3 verb ਮੈਨੂੰ can not be the subject of this sentence. Why do you say that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) ਸੁਲਹ (ਸੁਲ੍ਹਾ) (सुलह) (صُلح) <= I have seen Hindus use this word to refer to Muslims online. I am unsure if it is used in a derogatory fashion or not. The word means peace, etc.. Is anyone here familiar with this word as a reference towards Muslims? They wrote the word in English as sullah, so it may not be the same as ਸੁਲਹ (ਸੁਲ੍ਹਾ). Just curious about this and hope maybe someone here is familiar with it. Thanks. Example: Those sullahs are at it again. Edited March 19, 2013 by johnyork 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 They probably use two "L", as in sulla instead of sulah. Take this to mean that in Punjabi there will be an ੱ over ਸ and ਲ. But any ways ਸੁੱਲਾ is slang for ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ. Bring your other question to this thread as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Subject: ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ । (I Don't Understand.) Example: Someone is speaking to you in Punjabi language. You only speak a little Punjabi. Therefore, you say, "ਮਾਫ਼ ਕਰਿਓ ਜੀ । ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਜੀ ।". (I'm sorry. I don't understand.) Does "ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ" (ﻣﯾں ﻧﮩﯾں ﺳﻣﺟﮭﯾﺎ) translate to "I no understood (past tense)"? Is this the best way to say, "I don't understand"? Would it be better to say, "ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹਾਂ ।"? Also, feel free to add any additional suggestions on letting the person know I don't understand what they are saying. My sentence was just a starting point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 They probably use two "L", as in sulla instead of sulah. Good answer Bhagat Singh Ji, So let me confirm. ਸੁਲਹ (sulah) means peace. ਸੁੱਲਾ (sullah) is slang for ਮੁਸਲਸਾਨ. Is this correct now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Although your version is fine. This is how I would normally say it ਮਾਫ਼ ਕਰਿਉ ਜੀ, ਮੈਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਨਹੀਂ l Does "ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ" (ﻣﯾں ﻧﮩﯾں ﺳﻣﺟﮭﯾﺎ) translate to "I no understood (past tense)"? No, that doesn't make sense. It should be ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਸੀ l I did not understand. Is this the best way to say, "I don't understand"? Yes, ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ - Translates to "(whatever you just said), I did not understand it" This is the way to say "I don't understand". ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਮਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਈ l I don't understand. Would it be better to say, "ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹਾਂ ।"? While this is technically saying is "I do not understand", it is also hinting at a habit of not understanding. Same with ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਸੀ l I did not understand it before. I had a habit of not understanding it. "Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying." ਮੁਆਫ਼ ਕਰਿਉ ਜੀ, ਮੈਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਤੁਸੀ ਕੀ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੈ l You can also say ਮੈਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝ ਆ ਰਿਹਾ ਤੁਸੀ ਕੀ ਕਹ ਰਹੇ ਹੋ l It's slightly different though but both work for respected folks and very polite. Edited March 21, 2013 by BhagatSingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 ਸੁੱਲਾਹ <= this is another spelling for sullah (slang for Muslim). I like this spelling better because it has a "ਹ" (ਹਾਹਾ) to represent the "ه" (ਗੋਲ ਹੇ) in the Shahmukhi spelling (سُلّاه). Sullah = ਸੁੱਲਾਹ = سُلّاه 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I think the plural of ਸੁੱਲਾ is ਸੁੱਲੇ. Wouldn't the plural of ਸੁੱਲਾਹ would be ਸੁੱਲਾਹਾਂ? Anyway, is this سُلّاه the official spelling of it? I didn't know it was an actual word. Edited March 22, 2013 by BhagatSingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Dhanavad Bhagat Singh Ji, I have no linkable source to confirm if سُلّاه is the official spelling. There may not be an official spelling as it is a slang word. I was just doing research about this word and was noting the "h" on the end of the English spelling "sulla(h)". In some instances, this "h" is used to represent a "ه" (ਗੋਲ ਹੇ) in independent form or a "ہ" (ਗੋਲ ਹੇ) in final form. For example, the word "Shah" for "King" is spelled "شاہ" in Shahmukhi and "ਸ਼ਾਹ" in Gurmukhi. This is also common in Arabi with "ه" (هاء/hāʾ) (end forms:ه ﻪ). The word for King in Arabi is spelled شاه. I accept your suggested spelling ਸੁੱਲਾ. My spelling was just for my own individual capacity and educational at best; but not official. I realize my spelling would create problems when the reader tried to pluralize it, as you demonstrated. Therefore, ਸੁੱਲਾ is correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Can someone confirm if gora (go-rɑ̄) (ਗੋਰਾ/گورا) is used as a slang word for whiteman? Also, is this word considered a casual slang word or? Please feel free to elaborate on the topic so I can be up to speed on this word. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Well ਸ਼ਾਹ (ਸ਼ਾਹਾਂ) would be written as Shah. Not sure why they put an h at the end of Sulla. I would go without the ਹ but I could be wrong there. ਗੋਰਾ means fair-skinned. It's not slang and can be used to describe anyone who is fair-skinned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Dhanavad Bhagat Singh Ji, I realize it may not be slang officially. However, is gora (go-rɑ̄) (ਗੋਰਾ/گورا) the same spelling used in the slur directed towards whites? I understand gora (go-rɑ̄) (ਗੋਰਾ/گورا) has an official definition. I was just trying to determine if this is the same word. I have only seen it written in English as gora. Maybe it has a different spelling? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I am studying this sentence to learn about inflecting conditional present tense verbs. ਜੇ ਅਧਿਆਪਕ ਕਹੇ, ਤਾਂ ਵਿਦਿਆਰਥੀ ਸਕੂਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ । (If the teacher asks, then the student goes to school.) Here ਕਹੇ is the conditional present tense verb. Is ਕਹੇ an inflected form of (ਕਹਿਣਾ/کہنا) or? Was I correct to remove the ਿ from ਕਹਿ and replace it with a ੇ or no? (If not, how do you create the conditional present tense verb from the root verb?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) ਗੋਰਾ/gora is the equivalent of "white" in English. Is "white" a slur towards whites? I am studying this sentence to learn about inflecting conditional present tense verbs. ਜੇ ਅਧਿਆਪਕ ਕਹੇ, ਤਾਂ ਵਿਦਿਆਰਥੀ ਸਕੂਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ । ਜਾਉਂਦਾ is the correct spelling. ਜਾਂਦਾ is like saying gona, instead of going to. ਕਹੇ an inflected form of ਕਿਹਾ and ਕਹੇ is correct. ਕਹਿ is used in Guru Granth Sahib, and it means the same thing as ਕਹੇ. Edited March 25, 2013 by BhagatSingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Dhanavad Bhagat Singh Ji for your answer. I appreciate the time you take to answer these questions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Bhagat Singh Ji, As always, I appreciate the time you spend in answering these questions. You are a good representative of Sikhism with your eagerness to help. "ਜੇ ਅਧਿਆਪਕ ਕਹੇ" is a clause written in "conditional present tense". "ਕਹੇ" is a verb in "coditional mood". It is not written in participle form. It is a specialized type of verb form. This type of specialized "conditional form" is not unique to Pubjabi and it exists in other languages as well (ie. Spanish). The question I have is what are the rules for creating the "conditional form" of a verb? I understand "ਕਹੇ" is the correct "conditional form". However, what are the rules used in creating the "conditional form"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Don't mention it. I think the rule is to add a ੇ at the end of the verb. ਪੁੱਛ becomes ਪੁੱਛੇ, ਕਰ becomes ਕਰੇ, are simple examples. ਕਿਹ becomes ਕਹੇ is a bit more complex. If there are any more complex verbs that you have in mind, let me know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Dhanavad Bhagat Singh Ji, Fisrt, I respect you and the knowledge you are sharing. I don't want you to ever feel I don't respect you (or anyone in the Sikh community). However, and this is a big "however". I have been told (by a different Sikh) (actually more than one Sikh at the time I am posting this) that ਕਹੇ is a derivative of ਕਹਿ (ਕਹਿਣਾ). The word ਕਿਹਾ is a "past" form word. It is a valid word and I have confirmed the definition online and in my dictionary. I acknowledge this word. There are only 2 conditional tenses. "Conditional present tense" (ਵਰਤਮਾਨ ਸ਼ਰਤੀ ਕਾਲ) and "Conditional past tense" (ਸ਼ਰਤੀ ਭੂਤਕਾਲ). ਜੇ ਅਧਿਆਪਕ ਕਹੇ... (If the teacher asks) (conditional present) ਜੇ ਅਧਿਆਪਕ ਕਹਿੰਦਾ ਸੀ... (If the teacher asked) (conditional past) The (conditional present tense) is derived from the root "ਕਹਿ" and the (conditional past tense) is derived from the root "ਕਹਿ". Both tenses are derived from the root "ਕਹਿ". Is there the slightest possibility that you can be mistaken about ਕਿਹਾ being the verb form used in the inflection of the verb to form "conditional" tenses? Please accept my sincerest apologies for pushing this topic. My only objective is to get the right information. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 My bad it is ਕਹਿ instead of ਕਿਹ or ਕਿਹਾ. Thanks for pointing that out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 No problem Bhagat Singh Ji, I appreciate your replies and the replies from others. Sikhs are good people. Okay, here is my next Punjabi bhasha question. If I want to get a woman's attention (to ask a question or start a conversation), which of these is acceptable? بھین جى، ماف كرو جى 1 1 (bεɳ jɪː, mɑːf kə·rɪ·o jɪː) (I personally like this one, it shows maximum respect, but I am not sure about using "Ji" twice in the same sentence) 2 ماف كرو بھین جى 2 (mɑːf kə·rɪ·o bεɳ jɪː) (not sure if I can close a sentence with Bhain Ji, but thought I should ask anyway) 3 بھین جى، ماف كرو 3 (bεɳ jɪː, mɑːf kə·rɪ·o) 4 ماف كرو جى 4 (mɑːf kə·rɪ·o jɪː) (I use this one a lot, so I know it works) It is very important you tell me which of these 4 sentences I can use. Also, please let me know which sound more natural (as would be spoken by a native speaker). Is it okay to use Ji twice? (Once as a polite title of respect and again at the end of the sentence) Example: Bhain Ji, the kadhi tasted great Ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 John york I can't read Punjabi in Shahmukhi or that other script you are now using. Let's stick to the Gurmukhi script. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Bhagat SIngh Ji, dhanvad for your reply. Please accept my sincerest apologies for not providing Gurmukhi in my question. I will present my next post on this forum using Gurmukhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyork Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) This is a sentence I am translating. Please tell the meaning of the specified words that are numbered individually below. I have included the entire sentence so you can have the full contents. (this is from a Punjabi language newspaper) ਮਿਤੀ 10-5-13 (ਕੁਲਵੰਤ ਕਜਲਾ) ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਆਨਾ (ਅਸਟਰੀਆ) ਵਿਖੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ 108 ਸੰਤ ਨਿਰੰਜਣ ਦਾਸ ਮਹਾਰਾਜ ਦੀ ਸਰਪ੍ਰਸਤੀ ਅਤੇ ਸੰਤ ਸੁਰਿੰਦਰ ਦਾਸ ਬਾਵਾ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਦੇਖ-ਰੇਖ ਹੇਠ ਮਹਾਨ ਸੰਤ ਸੰਮੇਲਨ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਸਹਿਤ ਕਰਵਾਇਆ ਗਿਆ 1) ਸਰਪ੍ਰਸਤੀ 2) ਦੇਖ-ਰੇਖ 3) ਹੇਠ 4) ਸ਼ਰਧਾ 5) ਸਹਿਤ 6) ਕਰਵਾਇਆ 7) ਗਿਆ Please give the meanings of these words in your own words. I have access to a dictionary, so I have a definition of each of these words. I am more interested in the interpretation of native speakers. There are no wrong answers here. Just tell your opinion of the meanings. It will be up to me to proofread any replies. Edited June 28, 2013 by johnyork 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 1) responsibility, watchful care 2) same thing as above but less impactful. ਸਰਪ੍ਰਸਤੀ is super good ਦੇਖ-ਰੇਖ but in the above sentence they are interchangeable. 3) under 4) faith 5) with 6) got it done 7) what is the english equivalent of this? i don't know. It finishes the sentence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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