Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 more gems more the artical you posted: he. time of Guru Arjan, Mohsin Fani’s statement that the Jats joined as the followers of Guru Hargobind refers evidently to a period subsequent to the latter’s decision to militarize the Sikhs. This would correspond to the evidence noted by Macauliffe that, on learning of the military preparation initiated by Guru Hargobind, five hundred warriors from Majha, Doaba and Malwa regions volunteered their services to the Guru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 34 minutes ago, Guest guest said: written for a british agent for the british. the amount of hatred and spew, you think that is a historical text. He praises Sikhs (of Jatt ancestry) too in it. So you cannot say that he was biased against Jatts. He was himself of Jatt ancestry. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, paapiman said: He praises Sikhs (of Jatt ancestry) too in it. So you cannot say that he was biased against Jatts. He was himself of Jatt ancestry. Bhul chuk maaf he was from the northern district, talking about the misl fueds, on the british paycheck 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 38 minutes ago, Guest guest said: written for a british agent for the british. the amount of hatred and spew, you think that is a historical text. Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth and Sri Prachin Panth Prakash Granth are two of the most important historical Granths for the Sikhs. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 MORE GEMS: https://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/scriptures/nineteenth-century-literature/prachin-panth-prakash "then stationed on the AngloSikh frontier at Ludhiana, had been charged with preparing a history of the Sikhs. He sought the help of a Persian scholar, Maulawl Bute Shah. Ratan Singh volunteered his own services as well to undo, as he says, the bias that might crop up in the narration of a Muslim." "He verbally traced for Murray the origin of the..." " The Prachin Panth Prakdsh was for the first time purblished in 1914. BhaiVir Singh, famed scholar and poet, came across an old manuscript which he edited and had printed at the WaziriHind Press at Amritsar in that year" He wrote about his own grandfather, from another province of panjab, having battles with the Brars. the things he says are beyond a joke. the Brars themselves were sikhs by this time,s o how is this 'sikhs vs brars'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 oh...mighty mughals or pathans? more like savage. those are who you look up to? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 44 minutes ago, Guest guest said: anti-jatt article- the whole purpose of it is to discount the jatt hypothesis by McLeod etc- but he tries to do so with illogical negative proof- "oh there is no evidence of this wasnt true", and low and behold- author doesnt list his name! He has given reference to Gyani Koer Singh jee. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 20 minutes ago, Guest guest said: oh...mighty mughals or pathans? more like savage. those are who you look up to? You cannot deny the historical fact that the Mughals/Pathans enslaved Punjabis (including Jatts) for hundreds of years. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, paapiman said: Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth and Sri Prachin Panth Prakash Granth are two of the most important historical Granths for the Sikhs. Bhul chuk maaf maybe for you and your kathavachaks. Sooraj Prakash- you seirously believe the all things in that? here is an extract (apparently): After his cremation, Panjab Kaur asked Guru Gobind Singh for assistance. Guru ji was very displeased at the news as Ram Rai was his cousin brother (Grandson of Baba Gurditta) by relation (see Guru family tree). Guru ji travelled to Dehradoon to punish the guilty Masands. Guru ji knew Ram Rai was a Maha purakh and what the Masands had done was very shameful. He tricked the Masands into believing they were accepting a saropa (token of achievement) whilst they were punished severely one by one. They were numerous Masands that were punished in the order of hundreds. Each one was tied and punished by pouring hot oil over their foreheads. The main leader Masands were also severly punished in the same way and killed. Justice had been done and Panjab Kaur thanked Guru Gobind Singh for his support and Ram Rai’s Aatma would now be at rest. -Extract from Bhai Santokh Singh - Suraj Parkash http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Ram_Rai do you seriously think Guru Gobind Singh would do such a thing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 minute ago, paapiman said: You cannot deny the historical fact that the Mughals/Pathans enslaved Punjabis (including Jatts) for hundreds of years. Bhul chuk maaf they ruled india (including panjab) with violence and genocide, totally murdered the Satnamis etc. but no they did not *enslave* the jatts, or the khatris or the chumars or anyone else for that matter. do you know the meaning of the word enslavement? the fact that they had to use such violence etc shows how insecure they were about keeping control 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 40 minutes ago, Guest guest said: more gems more the artical you posted: he. time of Guru Arjan, Mohsin Fani’s statement that the Jats joined as the followers of Guru Hargobind refers evidently to a period subsequent to the latter’s decision to militarize the Sikhs. This would correspond to the evidence noted by Macauliffe that, on learning of the military preparation initiated by Guru Hargobind, five hundred warriors from Majha, Doaba and Malwa regions volunteered their services to the Guru Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) had taken decision to take up arms when he was very young. Majority of Sikhs at that time were not even Jatts. He did not need help of so-called low caste Jatts (mostly mere peasants) to militarize the Sikhs. Read the full article. It was the greatness of Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) that he converted coward Punjabis into fearless warriors. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 43 minutes ago, Guest guest said: http://www.jatland.com/home/The_Jats_-_Their_Role_in_the_Mughal_Empire/Chapter_II jatt site, but what do you expect? you can verify the info in the refs at the bottom. So you are going to trust a Jatt website over a Sikh historical text (Sri Panth Prakash), which is written by the grandson of a great Shaheed of the Panth? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 35 minutes ago, Guest guest said: he was from the northern district, talking about the misl fueds, on the british paycheck How do you know that Mcleod's theory about Jatts is unbiased and true? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, paapiman said: He has given reference to Gyani Koer Singh jee. Bhul chuk maaf most of those refs have nothing to do with jatts. all we get is this: According to Koer Singh, Guru Gobind Singh said: “Vaisayas, Sudras and Jats I have incorporated in the Panth.”35 Of the twentyfive Muktas mentioned by Koer Singh, three were Bhatias, five Khatris, four Aroras, three Lubanas, and two water-carriers.36 The castes of the rest are not given. The forty men at Chamkaur included five Bhatias, four Aroras, some Khatris and Kalals (distillers), two Rangretas (sweeper caste), two Brahmins, Sangat Singh of the Trans-Indus areas, sons of the Guru and the Guru Himself.37 Those who took part in Banda’s campaign, at least in its initial stage, were recruited chiefly from the lower caste Hindus.38 firstly, werent the muktas the people who abadoned Guruji then went back? so i hardly doubt jats would want to be included in that list. even then, the numbers he has given dont add up to 40. so it is selective, just to prove his (authors) point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: lol very mature comment. Historical fact. Heard it in a Katha by a Sikh scholar. There is another Sakhi where Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) wanted to test a gun and asked one of the Jatts (under Bhai Dhalla) to come forward. Not even one Jatt comes froward. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, paapiman said: Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) had taken decision to take up arms when he was very young. Majority of Sikhs at that time were not even Jatts. He did not need help of so-called low caste Jatts to militarize the Sikhs. Read the full article. It was the greatness of Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) that he converted coward Punjabis into fearless warriors. Bhul chuk maaf Kind of sad how you are trying to 'cover' your hatred/jealousy of jatts under the guise of praise of Guru ji. When he needed help, the Jatts came enmasse. What does that tell you? They were receptive to him. If you want to call them 'lowly' etc then its even more impressive how they took up arms for him. they had genuine devotion. none of these jatts were under mughal payrol or converts to islam. so again, they were hardly 'enslaved'. like i said, the article (whose author didnt even bother to write his/her name) is just a rant against more reputable western historians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: mughal nervousness about sikhs started when Guru Arjan Dev strated recruting jatts enmasse, according to western historians, based on the artical you posted above. Western historians could be wrong too. The Scholar has debunked their claims. Mughals were aware of the power of Gurughar since the times of Sri Satguru jee (First Master). Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: you can use your own brain to figure out that- if there were jatt kingdoms in sindh and rajasthan pre-sikh era, why not panjab List the kingdoms. Most likely, you will find none. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: Historical fact. Heard it in a Katha by a Sikh scholar. There is another Sakhi where Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) wanted to test a gun and asked one of the Jatts (under Bhai Dhalla) to come forward. Not even one Jatt comes froward. Bhul chuk maaf OMG...you heard it in a katha???? THEN IT MUST BE TRUE!!!! Yeah...definately a historical FACT! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: go look in the Dasam Granth, which you are so fond of defending Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) says in Zafarnama that Brar Jatts are under his command/authority. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: is this an incident narrated amongst your own caste people? Welcome to the Sikh world. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 38 minutes ago, paapiman said: Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) says in Zafarnama that Brar Jatts are under his command/authority. Bhul chuk maaf well duh, because they are his devotees. you are the one claiming that they 'attacked sikhs'. sorry to disappoint you. your comments on basically on most topics are so off with anyone else here still waiting to hear your caste... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: maybe for you and your kathavachaks. Sooraj Prakash- you seirously believe the all things in that? here is an extract (apparently): After his cremation, Panjab Kaur asked Guru Gobind Singh for assistance. Guru ji was very displeased at the news as Ram Rai was his cousin brother (Grandson of Baba Gurditta) by relation (see Guru family tree). Guru ji travelled to Dehradoon to punish the guilty Masands. Guru ji knew Ram Rai was a Maha purakh and what the Masands had done was very shameful. He tricked the Masands into believing they were accepting a saropa (token of achievement) whilst they were punished severely one by one. They were numerous Masands that were punished in the order of hundreds. Each one was tied and punished by pouring hot oil over their foreheads. The main leader Masands were also severly punished in the same way and killed. Justice had been done and Panjab Kaur thanked Guru Gobind Singh for his support and Ram Rai’s Aatma would now be at rest. -Extract from Bhai Santokh Singh - Suraj Parkash http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Ram_Rai do you seriously think Guru Gobind Singh would do such a thing? Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) punished the masands. There is no doubt about that. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 49 minutes ago, Guest guest said: When he needed help, the Jatts came enmasse. What does that tell you? So you think Almighty Lord, Waheguru needs help of mere peasants? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Guest guest said: well duh, because they are his devotees. you are the one claiming that they 'attacked sikhs'. The account in Sri Panth Prakash (when Jatts were troubling Singhs) occurs after Sri Satguru jee(Tenth Master) went to Sachkhand, while account from Sri Zafarnama Sahib jee is from the times of Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master). Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.