Vedas in Sikhism

[paapiman]

First of all, we (as Sikhs) must respect Vedas. They do have plenty of gyan (knowledge) in them and we can learn a lot from them. 

Some of the major differences between Gurbani and Ved bani are as follows:

Quote (Ragmala jee)

Regarding the Vedas , Baba Ishar Singh Ji said they are not false, they tell about the disease but do not provide the medicine.

The medicine for Ego/ Haumai is only present in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

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Quote (Ragmala jee)

Pandit Narayan Singh ji would listen to katha of both vedas & SGGS.  When listening to katha of vedas, he would sit at the same level as the kathavachak, When listening to Katha of Guru Granth Sahib , he would sit lower. People asked him how come ? This incident was narrated by Baba Ishar Singh Ji in his Bachans. "...they tell about the disease but do not provide the medicine. The medicine for Ego/ Haumai is only present in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. "

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Furthermore:

1. Vedas don't talk about Prema Bhagtee (devotion based on love)

ਭਾਉ ਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਚਾਰਿ ਬੇਦਿ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪੜ੍ਹਿ ਪੇਖੈ।

Bhaau N Brahamai Likhiaa Chaari Bayd Sinmriti Parhhi Paykhai.

भाउ न ब्रहमै लिखिआ चारि बेद सिंम्रिति पड़्हि पेखै ।

Having gone through the Vedas and simritis one finds that Brhama also has nowhere written about the Sentiment of love.

3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੨੫ ਪੰ. ੩ [1]

[1] - http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/1/pauri/25

 

2. Vedas (most of it) do not talk about the fourth state of mind (Turiya pad), while Gurbani is written from the perspective of Turiya pad.

ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਕਥਹਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥

The four Vedas speak only of the visible forms.

ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਨੁ ॥

They describe and explain the three states of mind,

ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੁ ॥੧॥

but the fourth state, union with the Lord, is known only through the True Guru. ||1||

 

ਵੇਦੁ ਪੁਕਾਰੈ ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥

The Vedas proclaim that Maya is of three qualities.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

[paapiman]

More information:

Quote (n30singh saab)

Sri guru granth sahib ji has many mahavaks/gyan shaloks of ekta of jiva and bhram which needs to contemplated but with that being said- Vedas/upanishads also have mahavaks of ekta of jiv and bhram, they have gyan slokas as well. Please see two very interesting threads below from japji sahib teeka on gurmat position on vedas by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/15768-gurbani-position-on-vedas-beautifully-explained-by-sant-gyani-gurbachan-singh-khalsa-bhindranwale/

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/15795-~~deep-gnosis-behind-mahavak-in-gurbani~/ 

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[Guest]

This video by sant hari singh randhwale explains well regarding vedas - end chapters of vedas - vedant as well check it out:

 

[paapiman]

  On 8/27/2015, 3:50:15, paapiman said:

Bro, Vedas must be respected by all Sikhs. There is no doubt about that, but they cannot be put on the same level, as Gurbani.

1. Vedas don't talk about Prema Bhagtee (devotion based on love)

 

2. Vedas (most of it) do not talk about the fourth state of mind (Turiya pad), while Gurbani is written from the perspective of Turiya pad.

 

Quote (Bhagat Singh jee)

Wherever it says Ved, you could substitute in the name of any spiritual book, ANY book. And it is true of that book.

You could put in Guru Granth sahib. And it would be the same. You could put in Patanjali's Yog Sutra and it would be the same. Both Guru Granth Sahib and Patanjali have words "love" and "turiya avastha" but they do not contain love and turiya vastha.


This is because words and books cannot contain love, they don't contain turiya avastha, only humans can do that. Books cannot love but humans can. Books cannot reach turiya avastha, only humans can.

I'll repeat.

Humans can  love and attain turiya avastha. Books cannot. Books do not have emotions. Since love and turiya avastha come from emotions, humans are capable of them.

 

What are books good at?

Books can mould the intellect.

As Guru Nanak Dev ji says in Jap Ji Sahib - ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ ॥ Make you intellect the anvil, and use the hammer of Vedas, to hit and mould the coin of naam simran.

Books are good at somethings and fulfill their purpose really well, provided you ready them.

Can one attain turiya avastha by reading books?
To love God at a deep level (turiya avastha) requires special training that only someone who is a master can give you. Yes you can love God without anyone's teaching but to go at a deep level, to attain turiya avastha, the level that Gurbani is talking about you need someone who can teach it to you.

A master is some one who has cultivated love for God  and has attained turiya avastha over multiple years of experience.
This master can teach you how to cultivate love and attain turiya avastha. Turiya avastha is very difficult to attain and I cannot stress having someone kind of teacher to get you there.

You cannot extract love and turiya avastha from a book. You need to extract this from your own Atma. 
 

 

In my experience, many Sikh brothers talk a lot about spiritual concepts but they don't have any experience with them. They haven't found anyone to teach them nor do they learn from anyone or anything or even themselves.

They are headed off the cliff and don't even know it.

How to not fall of a cliff?

1. Read Guru Granth Sahib, understand the shabads, their meanings. (and other helpful books)

2. Learn to meditate by finding someone who can teach you. (somebody who knows their shit)

3. Associate with others who are on the same path, at least 5 people who more advanced than you. (a strong peer group)

Use 1-3 to develop higher awareness, cultivate love and attain turiya avastha.

If you don't do even 1, you are gimping yourself. And in the age of the internet, there is no excuse for not doing all 3.

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