Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Sat Sri Akaal There is much confusion, missinformation and anti-Punjabi propaganda that has been spread by succsessive governments of India and Pakistan as it relates to Punjabi language. Many of these lies spread have led people to believe that Punjabi is not a language, but a dialect, and that it has no written form (A common falsehood in Pakistan). Or, that Punjabi is a language which is only a few hundred years old, was started by the Sikhs and is really known as "Gurumukhi". (A common falsehood in India). Now, both are absurd beliefs when evidence of written Punjabi (In Persian/Shahmukhi script) as old as 1000 years is available. (Long before Guru Nanak Dev Ji was alive) Putting the Shahmukhi (Persian) alphabet aside, i just want to share with everyone the origin and development of indigenous written Punjabi from this site i found. This should brake many myths that have been used to suppress our mother-tongue by our enemies (Hindutva) and prove to these b******* that our language is far older than their "Hindi". _______________________________________ http://www.ancientscripts.com/landa.html Landa Quick Facts Type - Syllabic Alphabetic Family - Brahmi Location - South Asia Time - 10th century CE to 20th century CE The Landa script derives from a variant of the Sarada script, becoming graphically distinct by the 10th century CE. It was primarily used in Punjab and Sind to write the Punjabi language, but it was not well suited as due to additional sounds present in the Punjabi language. As a consequence, during the 16th century CE, the Landa script became the template for the Gurmukhi script, which was created to better represent the Punjabi language. In the mid 19th century, the Landa script was adopted to write the Sindhi language. However, this proved to be short-lived, as Sindhi eventually came to be written in either Devanagari or an Arabic-derived script by the middle of the 20th century CE. The following is the basic set of signs in the early Landa script: ______________________________________ http://www.ancientscripts.com/gurmukhi.html Gurmukhi Quick Facts Type - Syllabic Alphabetic Family - Brahmi Location - South Asia Time - 16th century CE to Present The Gurmukhi script is tightly associated with the Sikh religion, as the words guru-mukhî literally mean "from the mouth of the guru". It was created in the 16th century CE by the second Sikh guru, Guru Angad, to write the Punjabi language. Stylistically, Gurmukhi derives its letter shapes from Landa, but considerable influence from Nagari is evident from the top horizontal bar present in most letters. Punjabi has three tones, but they are not represented in the writing system except for sporadic use of the ha letter (reduced to a subscript) to indicate a high tone: Vowels and other attachments: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandook Singh Dangerous Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 That is some great information. Sometiems I am so glad that I became a member of this site. This is very very informative. WJKK WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 That is some great information. Sometiems I am so glad that I became a member of this site. This is very very informative. WJKK WJKF We shouldnt even have to be presenting the truth about the Punjabi language and its written development in the first place. But sadly there are those who want to deny us of our heritage and want to re-write the history of Punjab with a saffron ink pen! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Well, we should bring our heritage and information online because its really easy to pass on information if we have it online. Please try to share posts like these with us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Thanks for the education Panjabi Nationalist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 thanks for the info PN which languages are REALLY the national languages of Panjab? Gurmukhi, Shahmukhi and Landa, or? thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 This should brake many myths that have been used to suppress our mother-tongue by our enemies (Hindutva) and prove to these b******* that our language is far older than their "Hindi". Gurmukhi Quick Facts Type - Syllabic Alphabetic Family - Brahmi Location - South Asia Time - 16th century CE to Present This is not the evidence to prove that Punjabi is far older than Hindi. It is saying that Gurmukhi scripts time is from '16th century CE to present'. The 'Gurmukhi' is a script, not a language. The language is Punjabi, which is being written in three scripts, Gurmukhi, Shahmukhi and Devnaagri. In Indian Punjab, the Punjabi is written in Gurmukhi script, in Pakistani Punjab, it is written in Shahmukhi script; and 'Dogri' (a kind of Punjabi) is written in Devnagri script. our language is far older than their "Hindi". Their Hindi? My Guru Gobind Singh Ji used 'Braj', a kind of Hindi. The most of the compositions in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib are in 'Hindi' (Braj). So, Hindi is not 'their Hindi'. It is 'our Hindi'. 'Hindutva' is a different issue. Not only 'our Punjabi', but 'someone's Oriya', 'someone's Bangla', 'someone's Gujrati', 'someone's Tamil', 'someone's Malyalam', someone's Kannad', 'someone's Asamese', 'someone's Manipuri', 'someone's Garhwali', 'someone's Urdu' could also be afraid of Hindi. I accept this fact that 'our Punjabi' is older than 'our Hindi'. -Amrit Pal Singh 'Amrit' "Je ham ko Paramesur uchar hain. Te sabh narak kund mah par hain. Mo ko daas tavan ka jaano. Yaa mah bhed na ranch pachaano"(Those, who would call me the God, will fall into the pit of hell. Know me as His servant and nothing is other than truth in it). (Stanza 32, 'Apuni Katha', Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, page 57) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 thanks for the info PN which languages are REALLY the national languages of Panjab? Gurmukhi, Shahmukhi and Landa, or? thanks Singh, these are not 'languages', they are ways in which we write down a language. We speak a language called Punjabi, which is written using different scripts (ie Shahmukhi, Gurmukhi). Punjabi is the language of Punjab. Spoken Punjabi has a standard form (called 'thait' or 'chaste' Punjabi), although there are many regional dialects, and even off-shoot languages. Some of Punjabi's regional dialects are: Majhi Malwi Doabi Multani Potwhari Jhangvi Here are a few off-shoot languages which have developed from Punjabi: Mirpuri Hindko Dogri When you read Gurmukhi or Shahmkuhi, you are reading in the same language (Punjabi). It is just that the language has been written using different characters. Landa script is basically defunct now because Gurmukhi is the developed or 'upgraded' version of it. Hope that clears up any confusion. This is not the evidence to prove that Punjabi is far older than Hindi. It is saying that Gurmukhi scripts time is from '16th century CE to present'. Yes, it is not evidence that Punjabi is older than Hindi, but is evidence that Punjabi is far older than what is often told about the language. How many people are taught that Gurmukhi was developed by Guru Ji from using the Landa script as a template? People are often falsely told that Punjabi is only 500 odd years old, was invented by the Sikhs, and is known as "Gurumukhi". These are lies which the right-wing Hindi-Hindu groups of India would like everyone to believe. In Indian Punjab, the Punjabi is written in Gurmukhi script, in Pakistani Punjab, it is written in Shahmukhi script; and 'Dogri' (a kind of Punjabi) is written in Devnagri script. A slight correction. Dogri has no standard written form. It was until recently considered as a dialect of Punjabi, but has now been promoted as a separate language by people who wish to distance its speakers away from their Punjabi roots. The Dogri spoken in Kashmir is written in the same script as Urdu, whereas in Himachal Pradesh it is written in Devanagri. From what i have read, both scripts are inappropriate for writing Dogri. Of course, the Indian politicians would not think to promote Dogri in Gurmukhi script because that would be giving validity to the Punjabi language and admitting to the fact that there was no need to divide Himachal and Haryana from Punjab. Their Hindi? My Guru Gobind Singh Ji used 'Braj', a kind of Hindi. The most of the compositions in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib are in 'Hindi' (Braj). So, Hindi is not 'their Hindi'. It is 'our Hindi'. Punjabi is my mother-tongue, which is why i call it as "mine" or "ours". Of course, Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written using languages other than Punjabi, but then again, Sikhism was intended for anyone of any race who wished to embrace it, not just for the Punjabis (Another myth which is common place in India). I accept this fact that 'our Punjabi' is older than 'our Hindi'. Hindi is a pretty new language, much more recent that Punjabi is. Urdu and Hindu evolved from a language called Hindustani. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 yes PN thanks for the informative post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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