solo Shaheed of hindus was Sikh and not Hindu

[vijaydeep Singh]

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Often maney hindu brothers state two young hindu shaheeds during medivial times.

Haqiqat Rai and Samba JI Bhosle.

Later was son of Shivaji,

Other sources also say the same that he was killed by Aurangzeb not for his patriotism but was caught by moghals due to his weaknesses of imorality.

This can be verified from Triya Chritars of Dasham Guru Darbar,

Sambha Ji Had bad eye on a Brahman Girl.That devi saved herself by misguiding Sambhji into the trap of muslims.

Second Haqiqat Rai was in reality Haqiqat Singh

As usual Dr Oaks fabrics or such brand of Fabricated history works behind this

see the link below and decide

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/kbhshrs_0304.pdf

Das begs that if someone is good in Punjabi unlike das then translation of text is a good idea.

[Big Raju]

namaste & sat sri akal 2 all.

B4 I start, let me jst clarify that i am a Hindu.

saying (as Vijaydeep Singh has) that Hindus had no other shaheeds is ridiculous. it is an underhand attempt to try and portray Hindus as weak & cowardly, and to create contempt.

just to make an example of when many Hindus (who were mostly not trained soldiers) perished fighting explicitely for the defence of their religion was in the last minute defence of Somnath when 50,000 or so people, mostly laymen from neighbouring areas attempted to defend the temple, and after a few day fight were killed to the last man. another example is the Ramanandin sect (a relatively early and influential sampraday of the Bhakti movement). They created bands of armed yogis to protect the temples that they set up (which were of course at that time often under risk of attack), and on many occasions they fought and were slain. there are also scattered references in medieval chronicles of many lesser known Hindus who were arrested on some charge or another, and were offered to be let off if they converted to Islam, refused and were killed.

the fact is that all people of all cultures are capable of valour, and Hindus have had their valourous moments in our history. Hindus haven't recorded them in one document, because we are a relatively ahistorical people (not too bothered about secular history writing - and are now slowly trying to rectify this).

of course moving out of the medieval era and into the era of the freedom struggle against the British, there were many Hindu shaheeds, some of whom died with the Gita in their hands. Check out the following link of a list of the names and dates of freedom fighters killed in British custody, and you'll see a lot of them were Hindu.

http://p205.ezboard.com/fhinduchatzonefrm8...opicID=34.topic

[vijaydeep Singh]

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Wait for a while !

Raju Bhai Ji you said that das is willing you to potray you as weak and coward.

Das did not say that but you took it like that.This means that such things are there in in you,hidden somewhere.

Das does not want to make this site a site of anti hindu slander but regarding Somnath,Own Gujrati Swami Dayanand Sarswati wrote about how did Hindus postrated in front of idol,Whithout any support from ground.The old idol due to miracle or science was hanging in air and a ring could hve been able to paas via it.

Due to this Hindus rely that it will show the miracle and did not fight.More of prists were there,who did not know to fight.Better ask Arya Samajis from Naya Bans,Khari Baoli,Delhi-6.That is contested by very own Hindus.

Regarding cowradice in Hindus das never said .Often hindus did fight in all three ages but that was never for Hinduism but for the nation.As Hindu itself means Indian(this makes das still a Hindu inspite of his conversion from Hinduism to Sikhism).

You are talking about Chimta dhari Bairagis or Naga Sanyasi,If they had power why did not they restore Aydhya,Mathura ,Kashi. They live near there.In fact some of the Naga Sanyasis were employed by Bangash Rulers of Farrukhbad,UP.

Thing is that even the whole family of Gokul Raya of tilpat,first Jat revolter was converted to Islam.(During the Aurangzeeb's rule).

Das like many other Sikhs from Sanatan Dhrama refuse to recoganise Hinduism as religeon and we mean it and we can prove it.Shaheed is the term from Arebic. This means witness or what you call in Sanskrit Amar.

In Sikhism,that person is called one who die or even declare to die in the name of God.Even with Gita the freedom fighter were dying for Bharat Mata,Who can never be God but a fiction of imagination of writer of her Arti you call it Vande Matram.As India is an arteficial (manmade) entityso is Hinduism.

Your school of Dr. Oak/RSS etc can try there level best to prove that hinduism is a religeon is nothing else but trying to give mutual solace to your ego that since ages you too have 'a faith'.

Das used term hinduism and not Sanatan Dhrama because you may not be knowing that Mohamud Bin Qasim could not win the whole India but his succeser Junaid was defeated by Bapa Rawal(rawal pindi is after him).Many Sanatan Dhramis made successfull sacrifies.non was Hindu.

There spritual mentor Matesendra Nath or Gorkh nath did not know the word Hindu,Nirankar was the one they worshipped by Hath(stubborn) Yoga.

Sikhs use Raj Yoga.Maratha,Jats,Rajpoots,Bundelas of of then were castes or Regional factions often taking help of others. Only Khalsa is a Faith,which uniterd all.It is something near to the religeon.

If you are Hindu no problem in the eye of Sikh all are equal.Das can say one more thing Perhaps das is remembering a great Shaheed of Hindus.

Yes a Hindu converted to Sikhism salutes him.Das is sorry but you should be more sorry that you either have forgoottan him or like other Hindus,who are ungreatfull forgot him.

Das is thinkin of Shaheed Nathuram Godse,And one VN Apte and ML Pahwa.Das is sorry but they could be the one who could be said to have died for Faith. And what about Kothari Brothers(do you know who they are).

But in all the cases non of them ever come in the situation when they were told Islam or death.

Yes Haqiqat Rai was asked but he chose death.He was not the Devi Worshipper(see the link given above).Person like das who is Sikh,Is an idol breaker.Das took all the idols in his house(after becoming Sikh and did a justice to them).But das is a Sikh,If someone insults the old avtar of Akal,(in case of Hariqat Singh,it could be Durga,but sites refuses this)

Say some one insult Rama.A Hindu can tolrate it but Das is Sikh,The true Sanatan Dharami.It can not be tolrated by us.

Better is to learn something from Sikhs.It is shamefull that people at those time did not write history.This means they hads no value for there Shaheeds(if any).Just try to separate a religeon and nationalism.A Nationalism can never be a Religeoan it is only a tribal identity.

Had Hindus been doing Sacrifises,Sikh Dharam may not have came into being and Hindu Rashtra would have in existance since long.Kindly read the link given by Das above and you will understand what Das is opposing.

Das realy say one things to other Sikhs on this site.For Hinduism better are Taksalis ,AkJ or Missioanries ,who say let Sikh remain Sikh and Hindu a Hindu.

But Sanatan Dhram refuses to recoganise hinduism as a religeon.Aurangzeb did kill Bundela king as well as Satnamis but in that case who had to run away did run(Sikhs also took tacktical retreats Nihungs call it Dhai Fatt) but no one can be like Bhai Mani Singh Ji ,who inspite of bribe been given to jailwarden refuse to leave jail.Haqiqat rai or Haqiqat Singh or Subeg Singh(Of Nawab Kapur Singh Era or Shahbaz Singh) all had a time to run away death if they converted to Islam.But they were Sikhs and did not give up.

Das is sorry that he misinformed Sangat but NR Godse can be termed as Hindu Shaheed.It can be only decided that if he has made up the mind for death penalty even before he accomplished his mission.

There is no need for hindutva(another false notion) to rewrite History.Only need is to recoganise that there is a long historic Saga of many Sanatan Sikhs even before did first Master took Avtaar.

As per Sau Sakhi, There were Brahmins,Who refused to Budhism,The sort of Hinduism(other sects are jainism,Arya Samaj,Vaishnavism etc. all have something common,ie matterealism.The dualism or Dawait bhav,Such person can not be shaheed).So they were prosecuted but they adhre to One God Akal.They left India and maved in another nations,They are the Jews.

If Hindus can not understand the hard language of a Sikh.Then no problem learn it from Jews. or learn it from Islam,from Hazrat Mansoor Rahmat ul Alleh.

Coming Back,Hindutva or Hinduism is the biggest hindernce due to hypocracy(4hs) and is useless for Hindus. That can not lead to Sacrifise.

Pandit Ram Prasad Ji Bismil and Pandit Somnath Ji Shrama(1st Indian to get Param Veer Chakra) died on the way of Bharat Mata or mother India(a man made concept as national boundries are man made).They did not die for the casue of God,who makes man.

Jo Bole So Abhye Sanatan Dhram Ki Jai

Jo Bole So Nihal Sat Shri Akal.

Raju Bhai hum apke Apne hai

We are your own,for you.

Get out of the utopia of Hinduism.Arya(civilised human,who is Sanatan(eternal ,who is God)Dhrami(faith in Rightiousness)) use to rule the whole world.It is termed as Brhamavart or Brahm(matter) Avaert(Circle) so all meter in circle around the world was of Arya.

Due to Kali(yuga) that was nothing more but the influence of Pagan and tribal culture ,which were often intersting,aryas became Anarya.They started to worship stones,idols,clouds,deads,animals and so on and so forth and forgot the Sanatan God.This lead to there defeat and even last refuge India is in danger of getting annexxed.

Sikh have no difficulty for your idolatory but it will be of no use in this world and in the world after this world.Niether Somnath(the lord of moon,there god moon did a sort of Tapsya to appease god shanker to over come a problem) helped hindus during any attackes on them.

nor can any person dying to protect it can be termed as Shaheed.

In Islam form where you and we have taken the word Shaheed,Shaheed is one who dies for God or His faith.Hinduism fits no bill.Sanatan Dhrama and its only practicle living form Khalsa order fills the bill.Conflict bitween your and Dases views is the conflict of spritualist-Thocratic views and ethno-National views.

You are most welcome on the forum of Sikhs.After learning Sikh you will be doing a great jobs to benefit hindus.Haqiqat Rai Singh was a similar one.

Akal bless you.

Akal bless Bharat.

Akal(eternal or Sanatan) bless whole world.

Sarve Bhavntu Sukhinah Sarve Santu Nirmayah.

Sarve Bhadranhi Pashyantu,Ma Kashricht Duhkh Bhagbhavet..

[ishveir]

Very good point made

no enmity is equal to understanding and acknowledgment

Most uneducated people in India are the problem who keep wanting to wipe out Sikhs.

Lets hope for peace, what has been done in the past is not right or pleasant but we as Sikhs of the Guru have to live on -- after its only we who can live with harshness.