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on sikhsangat, thought it was thoughtprovoking: sharing


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Before going further, I would like everyone to acknowledge that I have based my thoughts on my own opinions and if I have repeated anything it is because I haven't critiqued each post up to this point. Enjoy

I just joined up with the site in search for some answers


To criticize the Sikh faith on certain aspects is becoming ineffectual for me, nobody listens, especially the people on the far right (whom I’m afraid to say dominate this site), but I’m going to criticize anyways to reach out to the very few that understand.

Most Impressed, from my readings of siddh gosht and other writings within guru granth sahib ji, it is evident that Guru Nanak and others challenged and encouraged questioning, because questioning, when done with the right intention, brings forth truth or at least a quest for truth.

The reason why I criticize certain aspects of faith is certainly not to offend anyone, I believe that a liberal-minded and critical approach is lacking in our religion, this is offsetting serious religious doubts in the mind of youth such as myself. Those who believe criticism is a negative thing and breaks a religion are utterly wrong, criticism is the bases on which a religion EVOLVES (take note people from the far right) and comes out stronger and more resilient (the catholic church is but a prime example). THOSE OF YOU WHO BELIEVE SIKH CRITICISM HAS BEEN LEFT UNATTENDED TO GIVE ME A SHOUT! THE NEW YOUTH OF THIS GENERATION HAVE QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT BEING ANSWERED BY THE CONSERVATIVES WHO CLAIM TO RUN THE FAITH!

I agree, everything is sandwiched up and presented like a perfect “methodology†in which there is little or no room for deviance


All I’m saying is that the Sikh faith has no stance on modern relativistic socio-political issues (ie, abortion, euthanasia, evolution, genetic research, gene therapy, definition of death, etc) our faith continuously assimilates and accepts the Church’s stance as our own! Or we listen to the diehard conservatives that dominate the stages at our Gurdawara’s who are far from what we can call intellectuals (deny all you want I have witnessed this happening) THIS IS WRONG AND VERY DANGEROUS TO THE INTEGRITY OF OUR FAITH.

Very interesting point. I agree with the latter, but I tend to want to disagree with the idea of crystallizing a stance on any “modern†relativistic socio-political issue. My reason being that instead of being a religion where one is focusing on cultivating knowledge, an ecstatic experience, an appreciation of life…and death, the focus will remain on ideological issues which are clearly based on each persons pre-conceived idea of wrong or right…..hence, no room for sikhi “learningâ€â€¦.Although I must say that we should have a stance, if any, based on our OWN theological/moral standpoint. For this, I appreciate the fact that the “Sarbat khalsa†has been created because that institution (ideally) should be a dynamic body which intelligently, rationally, morally, and ethically decide on what they feel is right or wrong at that time. A brief example of this is how guru gobind singh was asked to leave the fortress as uch ka pir, by the 5 pyaray at that time. NOW, I’ll take a stab at the aforementioned issues

Abortion was done back in “The daysâ€. I know this because I was told of grandmothers altering their diets and doing other similar things to provoke miscarriages (These stories date back 100 years). A person who is completely pro-life will say that we should accept the child has been born with god’s grace, yet the other stance of it is that sometimes a lady has been raped/abducted…and I am sure that the rapist/abductor was not working with god’s grace…. My point here being that if a person was not able to stand up against this act (For whatever reason, and I am not being critical of the person, but rather sympathizing with an emotionally and physically taxing situation) then I can “accept†that they, if weighing everything out, don’t have it in their heart to keep the child. I am going to give my pseudo-soul understanding here as well. I think I have heard (but I need to better research this before claiming anything) that the soul enters the womb after 3 months, I believe abortions occur within the 9th week (Again I Am not sure of the accuracy of my fact). Nonetheless, it is the fact that I am saying the circumstance, reason, what constitutes killing, and the acceptance that abortion is an option are part of the whole thought process. <for those who don’t like the idea of killing, what about all those fathers who became kurimaars during the 1947 separation of India and Pakistan, where raping was as common as eating and sleeping….the fathers, killed their daughters to avoid them getting raped….I am not taking a ‘stance’ here, but rather just bringing forth circumstances>

Euthanasia, ……the approach that I understand sikhi to take is to actually give it your 100% completely to rectify any situation. The fight for survival is part of evolution and I believe evolution in itself is part of “kudrat’s khelâ€. I won’t go to the extent of quoting gurbani as I Find that the “gospel†approach loses credibility when a person uses “lines†which fit their agenda. Hence I see these 2 being interrelated, I am not going to go too deep into either for now, but will gladly do so in another post. Again circumstance should dictate the former. For those Sikhs who don’t believe in “jhatkaâ€, I think a situation which is ‘allowed’ or should be made allowed is if you are on the battlefield and your best friend ‘wants’ death, then give that person death. IF they have the will to live on, which I believe is even greater, because they will have a ‘greater’ battle readjusting, getting appreciated, and exemplifying their contribution to others, and there will be a lot of false sympathy and little support along the way…but again this is my opinion.

Go ahead with gene therapy and genetic engineering. I’ll give my reason, up until now, man has at best not been able to reproduce nature….we can’t create the basic elements. I think the fact that someone is trying to exert their “creative†talent to better societies ‘genetics’ on a whole is a fascinating idea, but in that process a person will also come closer to understanding “hukam†(I don’t understand it myself, Iknow it isn’t a lattice structure and there is no formula per se. My high school science teacher, who was agnostic, pretty much said “I am not atheist because science has proven to me that my body can not function the way it is by chance because the odds were in the billions). Sure it’s a nice blanket statement (he had given me a number, but it has been years), but in assessing what he said…one realizes that there is something greater in structure, larger in vision, more precise in execution, that is governing our daily lives. Call it god, call it a ‘natural’ force. My approach is that I appreciate creation, sustenance, destruction as an inevitable truth in life and admiring its myriad forms keeps me in awe….breathe…(waheguru ).

So my Question now stands how do we rectify this issue? NOW THAT’S THE QUESTION WE SHOULD ASK OURSELVES. Lets work together to propel this faith into the 21st century. Citizens of the Sikh faith! Break your chains and PLEASE raise your voice, ask questions, criticize your faith, stretch boundaries and please for those conservatives, who are responding, do respond with clear and valid information.

Guru Granth sahib ji, in itself is incredible, if one were to take the “wohoo, I am a sikh, a warrior of blah blah blah†out of the picture. We have a text which preserves so many dialects, so many experiences, of people from varying different backgrounds, ideological stances, religious persuasions, theological standpoints, but…like a good experiment, they all attest to a “truth†which in itself can be experienced if a person has the determination, resilience, and faith….(mind you when I mean faith, I mean the belief in oneself to fulfill a goal). This sort of faith is seen and widely accepted in modern day society because we are encouraged to dream and visualize, then further chase that with determination and ‘faith’. Hence, I think it is absolutely justified that we try to utilize that ‘faith’ in all endeavors.

SIKH is derived from the sanskrity word of “sikhsaâ€, meaning the learner. If we are learner’s we should be applying the techniques of learning; passionate debate, constructive criticism, clarity and REASON! (do not undermine human reason)

I agree. I am of the opinion that there is a greater lattice structure from where thought is derived. Look at the ability of Edward cayce…..(as an example of someone who is outside of the ‘sikh’ milieu)

The conservatives say that we should turn to BANI whenever we are in doubt, but how? BANI doesn’t relate to current socio-political issues and drawing relations on our own is an unrelenting task, deciding whether to interpret the scriptures literally or contextually is already out of most peoples reach. BANI has a lot of underlying contextual meanings that we cannot interpret on our own. We need a Sikh institution that can lead the way (similar to the “Christian Research Groupsâ€). IF YOU AGREE JUST GIVE ME A SHOUT OUT! I just want to make sure I’m not alone or the only person that sees this issue.

I see your point here and it is a nice ideal that was actually instituted prior to this discussion. The 5 pyaray, the sarbat khalsa, and the akaal boonga, was supposed to be the authority, governing body which decides, and location/institution……then we can go into 4 of 5 takhats…etc, but my point here being that the problem with any such idea is the ability of people to sit together and actually accept the possibility

that something outside of their own paradigm can be the truth.

Let us think about it for a second…….meat/no meat; drugs/no drugs/only under dire circumstances (in large quantities/or qualified medicinal amounts)…

So I’ll sum up my points:

Keep it dynamic, it allows for change which is inevitable, lets take on the challenges of “modern†or “new†issues and not solidfy anything in stone like “shariatâ€. Let us actually take the approach to learning as prescribed by the guru’s…..on this note sinister aren’t you impressed with the guru’s insight into the human mind and how they realized that ego, lust, greed, anger, and attachment cloud our ability to rationalize and see our own skewed picture?.....we have to make sure that as we approach each topic that we are both working on our own ability to approach the situation (minimizing kaam, krodh, lobh, moh ahangkar) and following the modern legal system in its iterative approach towards anything which is new .

I’ll touch on the other points soon, but before I do.. I just want hear the feedback or the fact that I am being “blasphemousâ€.

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