Guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Do you think the Guru's were Prophets? Or were they manifestations of Vaheguru? When I read the following Gurbani Tuks, it makes me think the latter is true; Gur Parmesar Eko Jaan Four Swaroops of Guru Nanak Patshah Nirankar - Guru Nanak is the Formless Lord Himself. Gur Nanak, Nanak Har Soi Sakaar - He appeared in the Luminous form of Jagat Guru Nanak and fascinates all the worlds. Jot Roop Har Aap Guru Nanak Kahayio Gurbani - Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani Nimrata - Garibi is His fourth Swaroop. Dhan Dhan Baba Nand Singh Ji said the following in relation to Mahapurukhs; As a bucket lies submerged in deep well full of water within and without. There is nothing but water inside and outside. Water represents Nirankar. The string that pulls this bucket out is nothing else but the yearning prayer of bound souls thirsting for their own guidance and redemption. It is this yearning pull of aspirants and devotees which makes the Divine leave His Celestial Abode and come down to Human Plane. Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj However, then I was reading a book and came across a translation of the Nitnem; Ajuni and Saibhang are two facets of one vision and imply that the Creator is not born of any of the known physical processes of procreation, but that His being is eternal and inhering in His own volition to be. So, if He is self-existent and unborn, how is He manifested in human form? Also, when we read the following in the Bani; Satgur Nanak ''Pargataya'', does Pargatya refer to birth or does this word imply that God Himself came to us in a human form. Confusion, confusion :shock: Your views please?! Gurfateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Translation by which scholar... scholars are gyanis but they are not bhramgyani... Gyani - who has knowledge Bhramgyani- Who has knowledge and they apply it in their life Two completely different things... I personally i would follow mahapurkhs with my eyes closed anyday. And kaur ji english translations are good for sometime... I would urgue you to seriously consider learning gurmukhi and shud bani whenever you feel comfortable... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 also linked to this topic Does Sikhism believe in INCARNATION :? ? Please include quotes (Gurbani Tukks, from Bhai Gurdaas Ji's Vaara, any of rehatname etc) or other reliable referance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 the Creator is not born of any of the known physical processes of procreation, but that His being is eternal and inhering in His own volition to be Creator might not be born as phsycial.. But creator jot can nivas in sirgun form of vaheguroo... Vaheguroo jot is an ocean, when jot of human merges with that ocean. There is no difference, no distincation between jot of human and nirankar. When water merges with the ocean you cant find the difference. It dissolves with the ocean.. just try to picture that concept... Guroo nanak sahib nirankar was guroo avatar.. apprarently there are soo many different avatars with limited powers.. But guroo avatar is at higher most level which are nirankar themself with limitless powers.. Not body.. remember guroo is not body but jot... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Creator might not be born as phsycial.. But creator jot can nivas in sirgun form of vaheguroo... Vaheguroo jot is an ocean, when jot of human merges with that ocean. There is no difference, no distincation between jot of human and nirankar. When water merges with the ocean you cant find the difference. It dissolves with the ocean.. just try to picture that concept... Guroo nanak sahib nirankar was guroo avatar.. apprarently there are soo many different avatars with limited powers.. But guroo avatar is at higher most level which are nirankar themself with limitless powers.. Not body.. remember guroo is not body but jot... Creator might not be born as phsycial.. But creator jot can nivas in sirgun form of vaheguroo... Vaheguroo jot is an ocean, when jot of human merges with that ocean. There is no difference, no distincation between jot of human and nirankar. :bow: :bow: :bow: You jus said the same thing as the "sweetSikhi" team in Panjab radio Nicely said 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 If Vahiguru is the ocean and we the waves then the Gurus and avatars and Prophets are tsunamis i.e. exceptional mansifestations of the ocean. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 If Vahiguru is the ocean and we the waves then the Gurus and avatars and Prophets are tsunamis i.e. exceptional mansifestations of the ocean. were did the waves come from :? he said water mixing in a ocean as in if a u pour a glass of water in the ocean 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 So Lalleshwari Ji, Guru's are not completely Vaheguru? Neo Bhaji, I get you, are you saying there are different varieties of Avatars? and some are higher than others? However, none is equivalent to Vaheguru? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 The Gurus are the external manifest aspect of the Divine. They are the face of God. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 The Gurus are the external manifest aspect of the Divine. They are the face of God. SO we DO believe in INCARNATION? can u please provide Gur Baani Tuks ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Satguru Nanak Nirankar = manifestation of Parbrahm Parmesar.Satguru Nanak's word is Vahiguru's Word, His breath Vahiguru's breath. Satguru Nanak Nirankar :pray: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Satguru Nanak Nirankar = manifestation of Parbrahm Parmesar.Satguru Nanak's word is Vahiguru's Word, His breath Vahiguru's breath. Satguru Nanak Nirankar :pray: I agree :bow: :bow: :bow: Cause some people claim Sikhism doesn't teach it :? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 I think we as human are lucky to have sirgun vaheguroo in phsyical forms such as our guroo maharaj, bhramgyanis etc etc....so that we can serve them with heart, mind and soul..complety surrender to vaheguroo (sirgun) to merge with nirgun (anand da sagar vaheguroo)....Ataam Nivadan... Bhakti starts from two.. sikh and guroo and ends in "ONE".. guroo apnaie chhh milla lenadaaie jaagasoo(learner sikh) nou...when you merge with maha akaaal.. and become one with him... you become him... no difference between water that dissolved in that anand da sagar vaheguroo. Jot vich jot mill jandi haaie... Khalsa mera roop hai khas, Khalsa mein karoo Nivaas (Guroo gobind singh ji maharaj) Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal hee Akaaaaaaaaaaaaal :pray: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 VAi N30 BHaji :bow: :bow: Joti Joot Mili.. Jaal ka Jaal hoa Raam! very famous Shabad..especially sung By Bhai Anup Singh ji :kirtan: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thats it veer ji... you got it... Baaaki your bhavna towards your guroo or murshad really counts...best example i can give you from guroo's time. Bhai Mardhana stayed with guroo nanak sahib almost all his life.. he didnt get gurgaddi but bhai lehna ji(guroo angad dev ji) did... because bhai mardhana used to treat guroo nanak sahib as an rab da fakir but bhai lehna used to treat guroo nanak sahib as pure nirankar, pramesvar...bhavna chhh farak cc.... Jis tara sikh dii bhavna(emotions) hoou towards his guroo.. ustra sikh ban janda haie... bhai lehna ji bhavna towards guroo nanak as pure nirankar....guroo ji apna bana la......apne chh merge kar laaie...Bhavna(emotions) and love towards guroo sahiban or murshad(bhramgyani) is very very important... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thats it veer ji... you got it... Baaaki your bhavna towards your guroo or murshad really counts...best example i can give you from guroo's time. Bhai Mardhana stayed with guroo nanak sahib almost all his life.. he didnt get gurgaddi but bhai lehna ji(guroo angad dev ji) did... because bhai mardhana used to treat guroo nanak sahib as an rab da fakir but bhai lehna used to treat guroo nanak sahib as pure nirankar, pramesvar...bhavna chhh farak cc.... Jis tara sikh dii bhavna(emotions) hoou towards his guroo.. ustra sikh ban janda haie... bhai lehna ji bhavna towards guroo nanak as pure nirankar....guroo ji apna bana la......apne chh merge kar laaie...Bhavna(emotions) and love towards guroo sahiban or murshad(bhramgyani) is very very important... OMG I've heard this in a katha as well have we been on some Katha together :? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 OMG I've heard this in a katha as well have we been on some Katha together :? I head the same thing from Sant Maskeen Singh ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Sant Maskeen Ji is a Nirmala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 YES INFACT I THINK IT WAS HIM :yo: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 I heard it from my murshad baba ishar singh ji rara sahib ..rara sahib lineage is also linked to Nirmaalieee Nirmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalie Roxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 i've heard of many Niramlai Sants, but never understood what does it mean to be Nirmalai Sant....is it a lineage of Sants from certain area/Family? can someone please give me soem info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 there you go It was Guru Gobind Rai, who became Guru Gobind Singh after Baisakhi 1699, himself founded the Nirmala sampradaya in 1686. The Guru was then residing in Paonta Sahib (in Himachal Pradesh) on the borders of the Yamuna. It is confirmed by Sikh tradition that the Guru had favoured intense learned and creative activity at his court in Paonta and that he had invited many scholars and artists .The Guru’s darbar of Anandpur Sahib was a central place for warriors and scholars. Weapons were there for the destruction of enemies and shastras or literature, were there to increase people’s strength. According to Sikh tradition, it was Guru Gobind Rai’s wish to have his Sikhs educated in different sciences and arts. He asked a Brahmin scholar, Pandit Raghunath, to teach Sanskrit and Vedanta to his Sikhs. The Pandit politely refused on the basis that most of the Sikhs were Jatts and Tarkhans by caste (jati) and therefore Shudras by varna (class). Knowledge of Sanskrit was restricted in those times to twice-born Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas only. The sources indicate that Guru Gobind Rai sent a group of Sikhs to Benares to learn Sanskrit, Vedanta as well as other sciences. The sources differ regarding the exact number of the group, are indicating five, the other thirteen. All both nevertheless agree that there were five Sikhs dressed by the Guru in saffron clothes and that their names were Karam Singh, Vir Singh, Ganda Singh, Saina Singh and Ram Singh. That group of five saffron-clad Sikhs is part of the group of thirteen Sikhs. The names of the remaining Sikhs who were dressed in white are: Dharam Singh, Daya Singh, Mohkam Singh, Sobha Singh, Gian Singh, Kesar Singh, Chanda Singh and Gaja Singh. The tradition has it that the five saffron-clad Nirmalas were brahmacharins and the rest were householders. After their training in Benares they returned to the court of Guru Gobind Rai which was now established in Anandpur Sahib. At their return Guru Gobind Rai gave them the title nirmala from the Sanskrit nirmala: ‘im-maculate’ or ‘blemish-less’. After the introduction of the khande di pahul in 1699 the Nirmalas received the new initiation and were put under the command of Bhai Dharam Singh and Bhai Daya Singh. The Nirmalas were then progressively (throughout their history) divided into 24 sub-sections (upa-sampradayas). Thirteen of these 24 sub-sections go back to Bhai Daya Singh and eleven of them to Bhai Dharam Singh. During their stay at Anandpur Sahib the Nirmalas participated in Guru Gobind Singh’s cultural projects, translating the great works of classical Indian literature, teaching Sanskrit and other classical Indian sciences to the Sikhs or explaining passages from the Adi Granth. Bhai Mani Singh is said to have received his training from the first Nirmalas, which explains why the Nirmalas consider the Giani sampradaya to have originated from them. According to Sikh scholars Bhai Karam Singh used to comment on the Upanishads at the court of Guru Gobind Singh whereas the other Nirmalas were teaching the epics, Sanskrit and Vedanta. After the evacuation of Anandpur Sahib in 1705 the Nirmalas spread in different regions of Panjab and Northern India especially around Haridvar, Allahabad and Benares. Some of them, like Bhai Karam Singh, also went with Guru Gobind Singh to Nanded and followed Banda Bahadur and Baba Binod Singh back to Panjab. According to Giani Gian Singh a group of Nirmalas lead by Bhai Dargaha Singh established their first dera at Kankhal on the banks of the Ganga near Haridvar in 1710. They had left Nanded after Guru Gobind Singh’s disappearance in 1708. Their dera was established at a Sikh shrine dedicated to Guru Amardas who used to come regularly to Haridvar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thanks lalleshvari ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 no problem :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Maskeen Ji is a Nirmala?! :shock: Nanaksar Rules :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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