Why i choose sikhism??

[sikh_fauge]

Gurfateh. Where can i find the poems of bhai gurdas ji in his reference to the prophet mohammed?

Although i totally agree with some of my brothers comments about sikhi being about love and loving gods saints (REGARDLESS of what faith they practised to acheive that status) however i do feel sikhi picked up where other faiths left off. If sikhi was an addition to the already existing faiths, with no special attribution, then there would be no point in sikhi existing.

If we read the bani in dasam granth guru gobind singh ji clearly states that the prophet and other saints prior to his arrival were engrossed in ego,etc. Hence this is reflected in the koran and its followers (not all muslims, shias and sufis being the general exception.)

And can someone explain why he isnt mentioned with respect in sggs unlike the numerous saints of hinduism?

Also i think we have to be understanding in regards to the people who have made this website; the situation between pakistani muslims and sikhs in the uk isnt brilliant; and with the constant propaganda and anti sikh slogans both inside and outside mosques such a website on sikhi slandering islam was only a matter of time. Its just frustration on the sikhs part who made this website. Lets not hate them, instead understand where theyre coming from.

Waheguru

[Mr §ingh]

I agree with Saihej Bhenji..... Bibia look to nice (as in 'jachdiya' ne) In Keski...in my opinion!

And No the don't look masculine..BHenji menationed one example

look at Sikhnets first page where they show a pic of 'Snatam Kaur'

Does she look masculine :roll:

Regarding which path is right or wrong.. SIKHISM teaches tolerence hence..

doesn't say other paaths are WRONG:...however Sikhism is ANOTHER WAY....one reason for the birth of Sikhism..was to AVOID BLIND FAITH...which leads you NOWHERE!

bhull chukk maaf

GurFateh

bhull chukk maaf

[Morpheous]

Gurfateh

Seems like people are still feeling the aftershocks of the Keski thread. Going back to the issues raised in www.whyichosesikhism.com i have found the following lines which seem a bit iffy.

1. The second line on the homepage reads Sikhism is the only faith which shows the path to realisation of Akaal (timeless god)

Then if you click on http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/?p=answers&ans=4

You will find Q: If the Gurus said that all religions lead to the same path, you'll be ok whichever religion you're in.

A: It is a TOTALLY FALSE argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal:

Is that a straight forward contradiction or what?!

2. On the same page it goes further to say that

Without naam, no one can find God. GurbaaNee is clear about this fact – True say but then they say;

- So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation.

Does this not contradict the answer to the question on the same page?

3. This website is dedicated to the prevention of the systematic coercion, manipulation and abuse that has been targeted towards our sisters in the Sikh community in recent years.

Did they not just manipulate and abuse information and give it to our sisters – evidence of this is above(point 1)

4. We only use direct quotes from the koran and koranic scholars – these scholar are most likely to be wahabis – not all Muslims wahabis, they should have pointed this out.

5. The questions are answered in full and leave no doubt regarding the perfection of Sikhism - This line wraps the notion of contradictions and paradoxes present within the site

[Mr §ingh]

Gurfateh

Seems like people are still feeling the aftershocks of the Keski thread.

IS there ANY HOPE ?

We said it before..this is whether Keski is or is NOT a Kakkar..we're not even discussing that..we're discussing whether it looks masculine ro not

Going back to the issues raised in www.whyichosesikhism.com i have found the following lines which seem a bit iffy.

1. The second line on the homepage reads Sikhism is the only faith which shows the path to realisation of Akaal (timeless god)

Then if you click on http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/?p=answers&ans=4

You will find Q: If the Gurus said that all religions lead to the same path, you'll be ok whichever religion you're in.

A: It is a TOTALLY FALSE argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal:

Is that a straight forward contradiction or what?!

I don't understand how :?

first they say:

Sikhism is the only faith which shows the path to realisation of Akaal (timeless god)

A: It is a TOTALLY FALSE argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal:

Though id o not agree with them - they aren't contradicting :?

2. On the same page it goes further to say that

Without naam, no one can find God. GurbaaNee is clear about this fact – True say but then they say;

- So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation.

Does this not contradict the answer to the question on the same page?

No elaborate!

3. This website is dedicated to the prevention of the systematic coercion, manipulation and abuse that has been targeted towards our sisters in the Sikh community in recent years.

they made some mistakes true..but MOST of what they've said IS TRUE

4. We only use direct quotes from the koran and koranic scholars – these scholar are most likely to be wahabis – not all Muslims wahabis,

they should have pointed this out.

I don't see any necessity... ..cause I don't think tha is the case..

I was reading a comentary.. where they said ...Jews and Christians are NOT, surprisingly the ones sufferings most in Iran..butr the NONBLEIEVERS (i.e. ethiests) are :roll:

we see it beign practised!!!

now whether above are wahabhis or not doesn't matter IF they've quoted the Qu'ran! ..Or do you think it does :roll:

[Morpheous]

Mr Singh

In response to the contradiction

On one hand they are saying that all religions led to the same path - God

Simulataneously they are saying God realisation is only obtained on the sikh path. This is a paradox - Is that clear ?

Some mistakes Mr Singh?!!!! there are fundemental flaws in the site! ie, as discussed in previous posts.

The translation of the same page of quran doneby a wahabis and non-wahabis differ. Wahabis take things literally, and thier translations are different to that of non-wahabis. So yes in that sense its very important.

Harpreet

[Morpheous]

Okie, i have re- read Mr Singh's Comments - i think this site could be of value if it was re -written

One of the main themes in the site seems to be awareness to the Sikh Youth about conversions - this i agree must be addressed.

If they simply re - thought their approach to the situation - maybe they could get the same message across without so many mistakes ?

Yes it is important for us to make the Sikh Youth Aware about conversions but should this be at the price of misinforming the teachings of the Guru?

Many of our fellow readers would say no this, and in my opinion, quite rightly.

The crux matter is Awareness vs misinformation

Should we even have to participate in a balancing act between the two?

[Sher_Singh]

Harpreet

Have you drinking or something. Re-read what you said about the contradiction. Just as Mr Singh said.

1. The second line on the homepage reads Sikhism is the only faith which shows the path to realisation of Akaal (timeless god)

A: It is a TOTALLY FALSE argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal:

There is no contradiction. I think you are just too engrossed in your hate for the site to know that this is not a contradiction.

[Morpheous]

Mr Sher Singh

In response to drinking - no

Contrdiction - maybe i must be wrong. But i can still see it, they are implying on one hand to reach god there are many paths - they are all equal

At the same time they are saying Sikhism is the only path to god realisation

Therefore the are confusing thier message. They are implied contravening statements.

'Engrossed in hate', thats a bit strong ! but your entitled to your own opinon and i respect that totally.

I just wanted to ask the question of the balancing act between

Awareness v Misinformation

Instead of answering that question you have started a personal attack.

From which i withdraw any participation.

Mr Sher Singh i apologise for my comments.

Maff Karo

Gurfateh

[Sher_Singh]

Harpreet

They are NOT saying there are many paths to God, they are in fact saying that thinking that Sikhism is one of many paths to God is wrong.

Is it just me and Mr Singh who see there is no contradiction. Can any other members give their opinions

[Guest]

Yes, I agree with you Sher Singh, Sikhism does not say EVERY path leads to God. We need to stop being so apologetic.

[Mr §ingh]

Oke...Harpreet.....how about you use the following site, which contians the translation by several different translators..

now compare ...the sites info with the site Im giving-..

Yusuf Ali's translation is the most wide accepted one in the muslim comunity!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Bhull chuikk maaf

GurFateh

[sikh_fauge]

Truth has no label; truth has no colour or caste; lets not turn into brahmins and start saying we are the only way, and only we can acheive salvation,etc.

Salvation can be acheived by numerous ways, in the same way

1+1=2 and 2x1=2.

However sikhi, for ME, is the most concise and clearest way of acheiving salvation. And at the same time, i do beleive it is one of the only paths which allows us to acheive union with god whilst alive. But this is my personal view.

Even the bhagats and pirs who wrote hyms in the guru granth sahi ji, practised paths which one can only describe as truthful (they rejected rituals/empty practises from their respected faiths i.e hinduism and islam. For e.g bhagat kabir ji rejected circumcision and said it was unholy and against gods will; thus going against the prophets sunnah/way of lviing.)

As for taking amrit,etc..for us to be called sikhs- all we have to do is be willing to learn/seekers of truth..but for us to be khalsa i.e pure ones, amrit is a NECESSITY. Without delving into the whys,etc all im going to say is our GURU, took amrit and knelt before the panj pyarai..shame on those who think we are higher than the guru, so as to avoid taking amrit.

Waheguru

[Guest]

Lalleshwari, I see you always bring up Shiaa Muslims on any Islam related thread. Can I ask you a question? Do they believe only believers will enter Paradise? Yes or No?

[Niranjana]

Lalleshvari, please answer this question and clarify this position for us all.

Dear Forum Members, on the topic of Shias, recent events in Iraq concerning this community have been devastating and some consideration is perhaps due at this time for Shias who maybe reading this website, so let's bear this in mind accordingly.

Finally Saihajleen Kaur Jee, even if other communities say Shias, Jews, Catholics, may now believe that their way is the only way through certain manipulative interpretations of their scriptures, does that mean we as Sikhs of the Sri Guru should follow suit?

I am not trying to be apologetic, however the notion that only Khalsa Singhs are entitled to reach Mukti does sound incredibly Brahmanical, just as the notion that Khalsa means 'pure'...hence non-Khalsas are impure...and given today we understand Khalsa to mean Amritdharis, by implication the entire non-Amritdhari world is impure??? Please could we address this point too...

Gur Fateh!

[Guest]

Niranjana Ji. If we say every other religion is EQUAL to Sikhi, then it is wrong, otherwise there was no need for Sikhi to be 'presented' to the world (even if it was there before). However, I have to say, contrary to my previous belief, it would be wrong to say ONLY Sikhi leads to God. I guess it would be more correct to say Sikhi is the purest, fastest and most effective path.

The reason I ask Lalleshwari this question is if Shiaa's believe all Muslims are believers, and we are Kaaffirs, then there is no difference in terms of intolerance between them and the Wahaabis.

It's pretty obvious, if we say Sunni or Shiaa Islam is also true, then we are saying every ritual of theirs must be adopted, you cannot say a religion is equal to yours and not follow their rules. If you follow your own and theirs, then it leads to contradiction and confusion surely.

Also, why would God create all these faiths which give different commands to their followers through revelation, ie. cut hair, uncut hair, shaving hair, circumcision, not eating pork, caste system etc etc? Isn't this just confusing to us? I mean, if one religion was established as the Truth, all of it's commands would be also the Truth and so we would have no choice but to follow them. If Islam and Sikhi is both the Truth, how can I keep and cut my hair at the same time? Lalleshwari Ji, the command to remove pubic hair after conversion comes from Mohammad, is this also the Truth? The command to circumcise also comes from him, who to you is a true Prophet, will you then become circumcised?

Im so confused, why cant we just establish the Truth in one religion and STICK TO IT?! :cry:

[Guest Javanmard]

I have recently participated in the SHia celebrations of Ashura in memory of Imam Hussain (AS) and had the opportunity to talk to ayatollah Sayed Modarresi, an important young Shia scholar. In no way did he try to convert me and appreciated my love for Ahlul Bayt and the fact that Guru Nanak Dev Ji mentions the AhluBayt in the Janam Sakhis. In fact he called me "brother". At the Iddara e Jaferya where people mourned the events of Kerbala I was received with tears hugs and blessings and with people saying:"You may not be a Muslim but you will still enter Paradise".

In fact even Iraqi Shias know about Guru Nanak and love him. Many told me that they visited his shrine in Baghdad and Karbala and that they consider SIkhs to be their brothers. The Panjabi Shias ADORE our Gurus to the point that in Pakistan one of the scholars declared that Guru Nanak was a Prophet apointed before Muhammad (pbuh) but who came later.A Lahore SHIA even said to me: When I look at Guru Gobind Singh I see Imam Ali (as) and when I see Imam Ali I see Guru Gobind Singh.

Why do I love Shias? because they have scholars, because they respect other religions and because our Gurus loved them as well.

Pir Budhu Shah was a Shia and Guru Nanak Dev Ji says in Bhai Mani Singh's Janam Sakhi when asked about the Shia-Sunni debate that the successor to the Prophet is Imam Ali, hence the Shias are the followers of real Islam.

None of these things are my own opinion they are taken from ancient sources.

To those who only want one religion I suggest they go to Afghanistan there are some people there who think like that as well.

God ONLY is the Truth: religions are the path to the Truth!

[Guest]

Wicked Post Lalleshvari Ji

[Niranjana]

Saihajleen Kaur Jee, thanks for your post, I understand your position on this matter as I recall wrestling with the same concept once. I grew up being told in Gurdwaras, lectures and in books that there is only one God, that Guru Nanak did not force anyone to convert, that Sikhs are not evangelical, that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib contains bani of Hindoo and Muslim Bhagats, that we respect everyone’s right to freedom of spiritual practice, so much so that our beloved Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee was martyred for this very reason....

...then in the same breath I would be told, only Amritdhari Singhs are eligible to have their Simran counted as merits and to enter the Darbar of Nirankar, that we are the true and only path, other can earn good merit, but they will have to come back through rebirth as Singhs in order to achieve Mukti...

...I found this much hard to grasp...however other more strange notions also crept up in numerous Gurdwaras and written sources...one bizarre one being the role of women to simply serve a pious ‘man’ to earn her mukti...I really couldn’t understand this...however similar ideas can be found implied in numerous modern day rehitnamas, essentially the notion of ‘pati-parmeasur’ (to treat one’s husband as God)...anyway, this is another topic...

As per the main issue, whilst I still have much to learn, I have found in my experience such problems to lie with the following “terms”:

-Religion

-Equal

-

The first foremost, ‘Dharm’ a term used throughout South East Asia, although frequently translated to religion, has no real English language equivalent. The full concept of what Dharm is and entails is very difficult to convey in English terminology, what religion refers to is quite different to the vastness of what Dharm encompasses...I haven’t got answers for this aspect and I’m not certain there is one single answer, however I would urge all to look into Dharm, through Gurbani and other sources to develop your ‘own’ understanding of the term and revisit this issue...

...similarly, the term Equal, for some reason has been taken to indicate being the same or identical...now if equal was identical, why have two words for the same thing? OK seriously, though, we have seen ourselves the dangers of what this can lead to, the 1980’s power-woman and the subsequent ill symptoms we read about such individuals is a case in point...referring back to my original examples, for a long time, all I essentially heard from these lectures, articles, parcharaks was essentially, “all are equal, but some more equal than others!”...ponder over this (deliberate reference to George Orwell’s Animal Farm) and assess the problems here for yourself...

Sardarni Sahiba, this talk of effectively being some sort of ‘chosen people’ is extremely dangerous and much evil has been done in the world on this account...

I am sorry I cannot answer your questions with straightforward solutions, but I don’t believe there is one singular answer to all of this...there is only ONE and that ONE we can agree is Master for all...

Gur Fateh!

[Guest]

Lalleshwari, what's the answer, Yes or No?

[tSingh]

The problem is that people are creating boundaries and definitions that I feel our Gurus never gave importance to.

From my understanding of Guruji's message, there is a path as fine as hair, sharp as a knife, of melting in love, of becoming the ocean, buddhi is fixed on that goal...the Guru shows us that there are those who are and those who are not. Some are plagued by doubts, but the one who is walking the path or has tasted that essence knows. They then can recognise others who also know, who are there.

Taking this as our starting point, then there is no inherent hierachy in paths, if all provide the opportunity to attain to this state. And the Guru has shown us historical figures who share this state from all walks of life and belief systems...

Do you really believe that Baba Farid rejected fundamental beliefs in Islamic concepts to attain to this state? Instead you should recognise that the path provides opportunity for him to attain to that state. Likewise do you really believe that Bhagat Jaidev rejected his beliefs? If so why the seeming influence of Patanjali in his bani? Nirgun bhakti arose in many different geographical regions of different belief systems. Just in the same way that the Nirmalae traditionally speak the Guru's message in the conceptual language of and to those other traditions.

how this can be interpreted as apologetic is to miss a very important fundamental of Sikhi itself.

[Guest Javanmard]

In SHiism there are different opinions about kafir. I am sure Khamenei would consider me a kafir but all the other shia clerics who I have met some of them descendents of Imam Ali himself have said: Anyone who cries Imam Hussain will enter Paradise even non-Muslims!

[Niranjana]

you heard the lady...yes or no! this is a court of law!!!

[Guest Javanmard]

The other big problem with the website is the very title: why I choose Sikhism!

This is quite insulting if you think of it for it is not us who chose SIkhi but Maharaj who choses us!!! To assume in any way that Akal Purakh offers us a menu of religions and that we just have to pick and chose is ridiculous. Anyone with even just an ounce nimrata knows that it is Maharaj alone who choses the path for us!!!

Hence we should never say: "I choose Sikhi" but rather "I accepted SIkhi"

Sikhi is a garland of razors, it is the path of absolute love !!!

Dhan dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj!!!!

[Mr §ingh]

Still, no yes or no answer

Anyone who cries Imam Hussain will enter Paradise even non-Muslims!

So I wont enter 'Paradise' cause I don't believe (or aware to be hoenst) of any Imam Hussain - But I love my Guru..WIll I go to hell for that ?

I'm eagerly waiting for your three or two letter response too BHenji's question

[Guest Javanmard]

1. I have answered all the questions

2. If anyone does not find it satisfying I suggest they look up in the original sources i.e. Qur'an and hadith of AhlulBayt as well as the writings of important scholars such as Mir Damad or Isfahani.

3. As a first reading I suggest Henry Corbin's "En Islam Iranien", unfortunately in French only!

Ya Hussain