JungChamkaur

I cant comment on Udham Singh, but he was definitely a Marxist. He also had religious sentiments. My family personally knows Bhagat Singhs family and are related to them too and he was an atheist and died and atheist and was born into a Arya Samaji family. Regardless, Khalistan is something that tells us to forget about our ethnic roots and I am not OK with that. The idea that our new religion can claim ownership of an ancient land bothers me. Its similar to the USA takeover of America, and Canada etc. I dont know about you guys but I am against colonialism and Khalistan is just like Pakistan-- a fake nation. Makes no sense whatsoever. Might as well try to change our Gurus names too and our Shaheeds names from Sanskrit-origin to Tamil-origin names and try to take away our links to the whole country. I dont know why our people like to think that Punjab is our Jagir or something. Its not.

As far as my MA goes, its in Political Theory, not Indian politics... I am into Jacques Ranciere, Gramsci, Zizek, Marx, Fanon, Nietzsche some others. Dont attack my credentials.. Im sure I can attack your families and I wont even have to make anything up... I can bet only 1% of you people even come from prominent families of any importance.... Anyways, I said vote as a misnomer. The census was basically a vote, people went around village to village making speeches and publishing articles telling Hindus to put their language down as Hindi, so it was basically a vote. People chose their sides. I still acknowledge that the Himachal Hindus put Hindi as their language and of course the Hindus of places like Ambala too. I know Ropar is Punjab and that they speak a different dialect but that doesnt take away from the fact that some of our leaders go around complaining about losing Haryana as if they spoke the same Punjabi we do... Thats what I was talking about as well. You cant say your OK with losing Haryana when all of our leaders go around complaining about it as if we spoke the same language. The RSS thing i mentioned is obviously a mistake. I dont care, your corrected me and its ok, where Im wrong, Im wrong. I am just so used to putting the two together I overlooked this fact. My mistake. Doesnt take away from my other points though. Also, the Naxalites were definitely around before, during and after the Khadku movement. This is because the Khadku movement is based on an extreme version of Sikhi and inter-communal relations. The speeches made by Santji do not sound the type of speeches Baba Deep Singhji would have made when he rallied people against Ahmed Shah Abdali... we attack Mughals and Durrani, not Muslims.... we have to accept our faults before trying to blame whole communities. And the so called Akalis under Badal did not want a true Punjabi state because then they would never win elections ever.... this whole language problem was a plot made by the central govt and the Badals... I can say this with no worries because I have sources that no one here has... and never will. But like the Ghadar Party, I cannot go around saying stuff because we have a big mouth and get caught before anything manifests properly. Also, do look into Vandana Shiva's book and realize that the Khadku movement was actually naive because we started to think our struggle is a "religious struggle"... when there are millions of farmers across India facing the same problems. Eventually, this idea became solidified as the Cent. Govt started exacerbating this notion by targeting Sikh activists around Punjab. Any first year marxist student knows that governments use religion to divide masses and rule with this tool.. we always fall into this trap and start thinking everything is a Sikhi issue and Sikhs are the only party that has something to lose.... wake up, were not the only ones here and the idea of Khalistan just makes us seem selfish and takes away from our true duty to fight for all, not for ourselves only.

It is not a fools notion at all. I guess you completely ignored the fact that two of our main Takhts are outside of Punjab. The idea of Punjab-centric Khalistan is completely foolish. We already lost Nankana Sahib... Once we lose two more Takhts, we will be without two takhts related to Dasmesh Pitaji and our SGPC controlled Akal Takht would continue to keep Shri Dasam Granth Sahibji out of Akal Takht. Without those two Takhts we will be stripped from our relation to Dasmesh Pitaji. If you think it is in Sikhi's interest to be limited to the confines of Punjab then you are lost indeed. Why not make the Bhaiyas Sikh? Is it because you cannot fathom the thought of making lower caste individuals into Khalsay? As far as the idea of Punjab being a "Sikh" state because 70% of the population will be "Sikh" goes, you are gravely mistaken.... Tell me one thing: how old are you? You do realize that there are various Deras across Punjab right? If we count them as separate, then god knows what population ascribes to real Sikhi. You also need to realize that now about 75% of Punjabis aged 18-35 are addicted to drugs and this will play a role in changing the demographic nature of Punjab as most drug addicts are impotent and do not get married. Then there are the GMO foods we are eating and planting everyday, the cancer from pesticide use and the polluted water. I am not sure which world you live in.. but Khalsa Raj can only happen if Sikhi expands and attracts people from diverse backgrounds and if we Punjabi Sikhs allow other communities to experience Gurbani. Also, I must admit that the whole country will probably not become Sikh. However, I think that we would not have problems with non-Sikh rulers if they are like Shivaji Maratha or Maharana Pratap Singh and individuals like them. Modern Day individuals who are Hindu but are close to us are people like Shashi Kant and Arvind Kejriwal. Perhaps we cannot have a Khalsa ruling in Delhi like Bhai Baghel Singh but we can definitely have a better government in Delhi that listens to our demands. If we are to have a Khalistan then it better include Nankana Sahib and the Gurukars outside of Punjab. The last thing we need is a punjab-centric notion of Sikhi and our descendants to be looking at pictures of our two Takhts 100 years after Punjab's secession from India as we are looking at the Gurukars in Pakistan today; eroding, neglected and occupied by outsiders.

I am not against armed struggle.... when did I say this? Where do you get your information from when you make posts? And you have to read Zizek "On Violence". As Sant Bhindrawale Ji says: "violence is initiating attack, we only defend ourselves". I do not believe in violence, I believe in self defence. Also, communism is not a failed ideology and the USSR did not collapse because the theory was flawed... the collapse of the USSR itself is an issue that would take, and has taken, thousands of scholars investing years into research. You should refrain from talking about the USSR and trying to conflate a government that claims to be based on "communism" and the theory of Marxism itself. Read about Neo-Gramscian theory and look into more Radical International Relations theories btw just for your own good. Also, Naxalites dont commit terrorist acts in India... thats like the Govt of India saying Sikhs were terrorists in the 1980s and maligning them by using Cats. Have you not learnt anything from history? Chinese communism is not a good example of communism either, as you have said so yourself. And there isnt one single way to implement marxist theory. For instance, many nations did not implement a cultural revolution like China did in Tibet. This is a complicated matter and you are not even close to being an ideal individual to discuss this matter with. Please refrain from trying to engage on this topic. China's militarization of Tribals and Indigenous people in India is obviously a part of their greater political objective to cause instability... but that does not negate the fact that the resistance in tribal areas is actually organic and is a reaction to the corrupt governments policies that are influenced by Monsanto and other corporations. Also, like I said before.. attack my points one by one and dont make things up. I told you I am against Khalistan because its Punjab-centric and like the Bhai Sahib on Basics of Sikhi says: why dont we make all of India Sikh and give them knowledge about Kalyugs Avtar Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj? Sikhi is not anyones Jagir... Pehli Patshahi went all the way to Mecca giving out gyan and Noor. Lets not change this now.

Jonny your actually surprising me with your vacuous statements. I never confused Punjabi Hindus of today with the Arya Samaji Hindus of yesteryears... where are you getting this from? Also, I have yet to come across any material evidence that supports the claim that Punjabi Hindus supported Hindi unless your talking about the Hindus of Himachal who did this 100% as they got a new state by doing so.. There is no material evidence that says Punjabi Hindus in current day Punjab as a whole voted for Hindi. I have tried looking for this before and the govt has not released the molecular information about the Punjabi Suba vote. And you obviously do not know that there are different strains of "Communism".... lmao You are too funny. Dont talk, just stop. You dont know anything. Ghadari Babay actually became Naxalites in Punjab lolll did you know that? And I never said Punjabi language rights were a "Sikh issue" I said that the party of Badal and the RSS Arya Samajis made the issue a bipolar religious debate and the loser of this affair was the Punjabi language and this was part of the plan. Normal street to street Hindus would not oppose anything for Amritsar's holy status... why are you thinking that the RSS speaks for the Hindu people of Punjab? You are actually annoying me with your lack of knowledge and ability to engage in an educated manner. Your argument does nothing to attack the grounds of my argument. Attack points specifically to try to be more clear. Also, the naxalites of the Red Corridor share the same struggle the Khadkus did in the 80s in Punjab. Do you even know that BT Cotton owned by Monsanto and the pesticides of the Bhopal Massacre are the same things causing cancer and farmer suicides in Punjab?

Ok first of all Jonny, I am not "Hindu", whatever your definition of Hindu is.. I have yet to come across an objective definition of the term itself. I am sorry I am a critical thinker and you obviously cannot tolerate anyone speaking on behalf of India... Perhaps you view India as a "Hindu nation"? India is no ones Jagir.. As Col. GS Sandhuji says: "calling Sikhs anti-nationalist is speaking against the facts considering the effort put forth by us in the independence movement: hangings, Andaman Island Imprisonment, Life sentences etc".. Oh and do tell me the trouble I am stirring..? I guess your against Shaheed Bhagat Singh and the Ghadar Party too right? Because as I said before, I ascribe myself to their ideology.. I am also not surprised that you have nothing to say about my points and you jump to an absurd allegation: "OMG THIS GUY MUST BE HINDU WATCH OUT DONT LISTEN TO WHAT HES SAYING!" I am not a sheep. I remember meeting a fellow Sikh who said: "These Akalis have ruined Punjab".... I looked at him in awe and I was surprised he would use the term Akali to refer to Badals group. I told him to make sure he says Badal's Akalis because we dont want to denigrate the term. We must distinguish between real and fake Akalis and use the same critical lens to view other entities. Jonny dont message unless you have something to contribute. You are just making useless comments that do no good for the thread. Attack my points and dont jump to irrational conclusions. If you think me being a nationalist is bad then you have no right to blame "Hindus" for going against a Punjabi Suba. Just like Punjabi isnt anyones Jagir, neither is India. Let me guess, this is too much for you too right? Why not call me a Hindu and try to ignore my points which are all valid.. All your doing is portraying yourself as ignorant.

I understand that people on this forum have made derogatory statements but you dont respond in a like manner.... thats like if we killed innocent Hindus because a group of evil so-called "Hindus" killed Sikhs in Delhi. However, I have personally met a Sikh from Mississauga ,Ontario, Canada who was openly bragging about his Chacha killing 2-3 families of Hindus in the aftermath of 1984 riots... I was disgusted. There are always people who feel justified in thinking in a black and white ignorant manner when people on forums like this fight "iron with iron". If Hitler killed Jews, the Jews didnt blame Germans as a whole but the Nazi Party... If we fight iron with iron then we are the same as the enemy and we are actually giving them ammunition to malign us in public later without showing their own initiation of conflict (this is what happen in the 1980s). This is why I get upset listening to the speeches by Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwaleji. He isolated the Punjabi Hindus by falling into the trap of the RSS/Government. They threw the bait and we took it. Blanket statements only derail our movement for rights. If the opposition uses blanket statements, and we do the same thign then were are stupider than them. Also, I remember watching a speech by "Bharpur Singh Balbir": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0mLoA04RKU.. In this speech Bharpur Singh says "Hindus have been slaves for 1000 years"... I was inspired by this comment to do research on my own. It didnt take more than 5 minutes to realize that more than half of his historic statements are false and did nothing but made us look bad to Hindus. Saying Hindus have been slaves for 1000 years is like saying "Punjab was enslaved for 500 years until Pehli Patshahi and then we were free while "Hindus" remained slaves for another 500 years". India has a strong history of resistance which was sporadic, yet unending. There was always resistance from some corner of the nation and to label people as "Hindus" is putting Marathas and Rajputs and Jatts all in one group... this is complete nonsense and shows that the claims in this video are fatuous. We might as well let historians malign us for the actions of Ala Singh when he allied with Ahmad Shah and when they (Patiala and allies) fought against Dal Khalsa troops in 1857 rebellion... Blanket statements should be regulated openly by the Moderator. Until we think critically we will never achieve anything. We have a long way to go before we can fight the drug menace which is the real threat right now.

Sat Sri Akal Singho! I am Jung Singh and I am 26 years old. I live in Toronto, Canada. I have a Masters in Political Science and thinking of pursuing further education. I am against Khalistan as a state which would denote the secession of the State of Punjab from India. For, I am for preaching Sikhi outside of Punjab and preserving our relationship with Takht Shri Hazur Sahib and Patna Sahib (and of course all Non-Punjab Gurukars). I am against the creation of Pakistan as well. I also do not agree with the Durand Line. I love the Ghadar Party and I ascribe to their political ideology. I am a strong proponent of decolonization via a radical education system based on the writings of people like Antonio Gramsci and other Leftists. I am a strong supporter of the Naxalites and the Indian National Army.

Jonny 101, you are wrong. Simply put. And I have to be blunt. There is no single homogenous group called "Punjabi Hindus". Please wake up and read the ideology of Ghadar Party, look at the Naxalite cause, the book by Vandana Shiva and her work. Look at Gramsci's book: Prison Notebooks. You are obviously not awake. Punjabi Hindus? What are Punjabi Hindus? I know the Punjabi Hindus of my area are falling victim to the drug menace just as badly as the Sikh kids. Did a lot of the Hindus of Punjab (defined as Himachal, Haryana and Current Punjab state) vote against Punjabi Suba? Yes, they did. However, the reason for Haryana is that they dont speak our Punjabi. If you go to Ropar, Kharar, Kurali etc, you will see that the Hindus there speak Haryanvi style Punjabi. Their included in Punjab... If you go into Haryana, their language is not "Punjabi" like ours. It makes sense that a lot of Haryana voted against the Punjabi Suba which would have put our dialect onto them by legislative force. However, in Himachal, many Hindus spoke Punjabi and they still voted for Hindi. This is because they fell into the trap of the RSS... Even today many of them speak Punjabi. If you see a video on youtube about Capt. Amrinder Singh talking to Badal, you will see how he exposes that Badal's "Akali" Dal wanted to make Punjabi Suba into a Hindu vs. Sikh issue so his party can win a majority in Punjab and he can get his Chaudar. The so called Akalis under Badal and the RSS worked together to make the language issue a religious one. This worked. Wake up. The attack is coming from all sides. The very fact that you mention whole communities as one, really makes me wonder how old you are, and what your education is. Please do tell... I am beginning to think that Im speaking to young children here who have only been educated by a select few youtube videos and some uneducated Sants in India... I repeat: PLEASE READ VANDANA SHIVA AND GHADAR PARTY IDEOLOGY! ALSO GRAMSCI! READ ABOUT HEGEMONY! I have a Masters in Political Science and I ascribe to the ideology of the Ghadar Party. I can bet many people here dont even know the fact that the Khardku movement ran parallel into the Naxalite Punjab Movement. Does anyone even know about Baba Bhuja Singh? Please read more books. I can see why a lot of people here use general labels to identify political entities and social movements. Most of you seem like little kids who have barely read anything and have minimal knowledge of Political Science.... Please read more and speak intelligently. Scholars would laugh in our face if they read the comments on this website. Generalization evinces your lack of knowledge. SatnaamJi

How come no one replied to my post and just went towards everything Sher said? This is not about Dalits and Ramdasias or Ravidasias. The idea of Khalistan was propogated in Punjab so Sikhs will be portrayed as anti-nationalist in the Indian Media and be isolated from the sympathy of the rest of the nation. The Gurmatta of 1986 established by us was to free the rest of India from the clutches of Capitalism and from the clutches of the "Brahmin-Bania nexus of Delhi". I refrain from using the terms Brahmin and Bania to refer to the Elitist core of Delhi, because this makes it seem like all Brahmins are anti-Sikh when we have people like Bhai Mati Das and Sati Das Ji that came from that community. Nevertheless, the idea is the same. Khalistan should be all over India, not only in Punjab. I always get annoyed when I see Punjabis acting like they have inherited a monopoly on Gurbani and our Guru Sahibaan. As Sikhs we have to fight for national freedom, not for regional. We should spread Sikhi throughout India. Please look into Dr. Vandana Shiva and her book entitled; The Violence of the Green Revolution. Also, look into Antonio Gramsci's Prison Notebooks, the writings of Sardar Bhagat Singh and the various pamphlets, articles etc. distributed by the Ghadar Party. I used to be naive like everyone else here before. However, when you read outside our little frame of Punjabi Sikhs, then you will see the true motive behind propogating the idea of Khalistan in Punjab. It completely ignores our rights as armed Singhs to roam India freely all the way to Nanded and Patna. Khalistan, as Basics of Sikhi also agrees, should be all over India. And lets not try to use the term Khalistan either. It is a fake name like Pakistan is. Pakistan is a fake nation carved out of Punjab (India), Kashmir (India), Sindh (India) Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (Afghanistan), and Balochistan (separated in Iran and Iraq as well). We should expand Sikhi, not limit it to the confines of Punjab. Pehli Patshahi Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj went all over the world... why are we so Punjab-centric? I understand we have ethnic relations to Punjab and this is good but it should not forbid us from preaching Sikhi to the rest of India. I understand the Gurmatta of Khalistan that was passed in 1986 by Sant Thakur SinghJi, but at the same time, that Khalistan was not a mere secession of Punjab from India, it was to free India from the clutches of the select few corporatists who were selling Punjab to Monsanto, selling other Indian areas to Coca Cola etc. We need a native manufacturing industry, that is what swatantra is. That is what Swaraj is. Before this Khalistan notion and the Green Revolution, Punjab was self sufficient and every household/village was a self sustaining community. We, as farmers especially, did not have to go to the local hatti for anything except salt. Farmers were self sufficient. Now their trying to introduce property tax in Punjab as well. This is true slavery. We have to hold our ethnic roots close and claim ownership of all India and spread Sikhi throughout India via an Indigenous knowledge-based education system. Please read about the Ghadar Party ideology and Vandana Shiva's work: The Violence of the Green Revolution.

Please read my thread: "Bigotry on this website. Please Read"

Sat Sri Akal Singho, I am new to this forum but I have read many threads so far and I am extremely disturbed. I came to this site thinking that the Singhs here would be a good representation of Gurmat philosophy. However, thread after thread, all I am seeing is bigotry. Several users here are prejudiced and make generalized statements without incurring any warnings from the Moderator. For instance, I see Gurmukhs on this site who seem to have great knowledge on Gurbani saying things like "Indian muslims this", "Punjabi Hindus this". "Oh the Hindus did this, The Muslims did this".... I mentioned this on another thread about Reconciliation and I am saying this here again: please refrain from generalizing. It is black and white labelling that has caused so much problems for our Panth. Blaming any community as a whole for the actions of a few individuals is blatantly wrong and should be denigrated by the forum Moderator swiftly. When the Mughal hukumat attacked GuruJi, Guru Sahib did not blame the Muslims. When Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked Harmandir Sahib, Sant Baba Deep Singh Ji did not blame Muslims. Our Panth cannot remain Tyar Bar Tyar if we think in terms of black and white. We have to think critically. If we blame communities as a whole then we are allowing the media and other anti-Sikh individuals and organizations to give examples of bigotry. The Taliban was used by Western media outlets to defame the Muslims of the world. Likewise, Ajaib Singh Bagri was used by the Indian Govt to malign the Sikhs. We must take an educated approach. The moderator on this website must also play his/her role and step in and correct our Bhais when they make these kind of mistakes. If we do not fix our terminology then we are to be blamed for our Panth's gradual denigration. I say gradual because there are too many people who blame whole communities. If we blame Punjabi Hindus for Punjabi Suba, then they can blame us, as a whole, tomorrow for electing Badal and allowing him to unleash a reign of terror across the state of Punjab. We must be aware. We have to be vigilant. We cannot allow people from our own ranks to make bigoted statements. They hurt our whole community. I for one cannot stand anyone generalizing. The moderator should take action and make his actions public and publicly denounce statements that target a whole community. I am going to outline some examples: 1. The Mughals and SOME (note the word Some... not all Pahari Rajas attacked) Hill Rajput Rajas attacked Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib did not blame Muslims, Hindus, or Rajputs as a whole. 2. Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked Harmandir Sahib. Baba Deep Singh Ji did not blame Muslims. 3. 1984 Genocide : Indian Govt Cats blamed Hindus as a whole. True Sikhs blamed the Indian Govt of Rajiv Gandhi and gave credit to individuals such as Gen. Sinha et al, and did not blame Hindus as a whole. 4. 1947 Partition: We should not blame Muslims as a whole. I remember reading an article where a fellow Sikh explained how the Muslim League attacked Hindus and Sikhs in West Punjab and were successful in portraying the attacks as an organic Muslim insurgence. However, it was an orchestrated, British-mandated (Muslim League is an extension of the West--- so is Pakistan and slowly India as well) affair. We have to blame ourselves for not realizing that the attacks against Hindus and Sikhs were actually sponsored by agencies of the West. We bought the lie and reacted just as nefariously as the supposed "Muslims" did and contributed to the destruction of India's history. We contributed to the destruction of Afghanistan, Balochistan, Bengal, Punjab, Sindh, and Kashmir. When I say WE I mean all Sikhs and Hindus and Muslims that bought the lie of partition. We lost Nankana Sahib and I remember seeing pictures of dozens of Gurdwaras in Pakistan deteriorating and I was dumbfounded. The British split all peoples of South Asia that would have formed any resistance to their corporatist and capitalist agenda. I remember listening to Bani from Dasmesh PitaJi and I remember reading something about Russia and China marching into Hind and how 400 Million Hindus would perish or something and that the whole nation would take amrit and they would fight back as Khalsay and Reign supreme. I am unsure as to where I came across this Bani, if someone can help me find it, I will greatly appreciate it. But my point is, we have to be aware and blame people SPECIFICALLY. The MODERATOR should STEP IN anytime anti-gurmat comments are made and when people generalize. US BLAMING HINDUS MUSLIMS AS A WHOLE IS LIKE SOMEONE BLAMING US FOR THE ACTIONS OF BADAL!!!!! DONT YOU SEE WHAT YOUR DOING! DONT BE IGNORANT! BE AWARE! WAKE UP! Bhul Chuk Maaf Karayo Satnaam

Singo, I am against Khalistan. I lean towards the idea brought by the Bhai Sahib at "Basics of Sikhi". I believe it is Punjabi arrogance and ignorance that wants Khalistan. We need Hazur Sahib and Patna Sahib... this punjab-centric idea of a Sikh state is completely ignorant of non-Punjabi Takht Sahibs. Also, I love the idea of making more Sikhs in India. Why keep Gurbani limited to Punjab? That too, the Punjab in India. What about Shri Nankana Sahib? Khalistan is not the way to go. I am against the creation of Pakistan, so Khalistan is just adding salt to the wound. As for the farmer's rights, this is not only a Punjab issue. This is an issue with our current form of capitalism as a whole. Farmers of all castes, religions and creeds are at threat in the contemporary economic system. Please look into Dr. Vandana Shiva and Monsanto. The revelations of UK's involvement in 1984 Saka will also become more relevant as you understand Dr. Shiva's work on the Green Revolution. The reason the govt attacked Harimandir Sahib is because the Sikhs would have went against corporatism and the capitalist system. The notion of Khalistan was exalted as the primary objective of Sikhs in the 80s because they do not want Sikhs to start fighting across India against corporations like Coca Cola and Monsanto. If we Sikhs do not fight for the liberation of India, then who will? The govt has already taken away the weapons of Rajputs and domesticated a large number of them. The Sikhs are left and it is imperative we grasp a deep understanding of capitalism and corporatism and fight to free all of India and establish an indigenous-knowledge based education system. The RSS, the Arya Samaj and the notions of Khalistan are all ideas imported into India to establish a neoliberal capitalist regime. Satnaam.

Singho, I see a lot of anti-gurbani comments here. If we want reconciliation with "hindus" then we have to first stop referring to "hindus" as a whole. If you want to talk about the RSS then talk about them. Saying "hindu this, hindu that" is tantamount to the RSS saying "sikhs are anti-nationalist". This was the same mistake Sant Jarnail Singhji made. We have to be specific when we make attacks against an entity.

After some thinking, I have to accept that she is a very brave woman indeed. I can only imagine how she must have been beleaguered by her peers. She has obviously been able to dispel her ahankaar and homa. I can barely go 3 weeks without getting a haircut and shaving. She is a commendable individual. Rab karay ik din oh mainu vee inee takat davay.

Sat Sri Akal Ji, This is my first post. For me my first goal is to get over homa, kaam, krodh, and mo. I am not greedy at all. I only pursue money for ghar ghristi. Second goal is to be able to become an amritdhari without any hesitation and worry about my looks. Finally, attain mukhti. Bhul Chuk Maaf Karayo Satnaam