Angadbir

How do we know he did 'not allow' women???

All we know is that in oral history, it was passed down that there were no women. Maybe none ever volunteered?? Maybe those women did not want to do that seva?

And here we are again back to the menial task of cooking for women... hahahah seems cooking, serving men and cleaning and having babies is all we are good for.

It doesn't mean he did not allow them. Did you hear him personally say that no women could??? Did anyone for that matter? Is it written anywhere by Guru Ji that he specifically SAID women were not allowed??? I challenge you to show me!

He DID however, write his 52 hukams AFTER 1699, in which he contained all the important points... yet if this was such an important thing to him to discriminate against women... then why did he not include a statement restricting women???

Absence of proof is NOT proof of absence!!!
Just because we have no evidence that it DID happen, is NOT proof that it was not ALLOWED to happen!! It very well COULD have happened! There COULD have been women as Panj Pyares. Do we even know much about the Panj Pyares after the first day? Who were they etc? How do we know for sure none ever had women? History could have been written to say 'five Sikhs' in which case we'd never know. Or men who had something against women, could have chosen to not specifically state women participated. We will never know. But absence of proof is not proof of absence. The only way wed know for sure is if SGGSJ says something about restricting women (which it doesn't) or if Guru Ji had written to restrict women in his 52 Hukams (which he didn't). I think that leaves it pretty open ended! ALl else is speculation... by MEN!

Further he said "Whenever and wherever five baptised Sikhs come together, the Guru would be present" not five sikh men...

And once again... Panth was given authority to make decisions... so SRM is valid!

WJKK WJKF,

Forgive me for saying but you are now grasping... I will follow the SRM because it stands the test of agreeing with SGGSJ. GRM does not. SGGSJ does not anywhere state that women should be restricted or controlled by men in any way or play less of a role in Sikhism than men. In fact it encourages the opposite. It also states that the same light is in both equally. That same light of God is in both genders equally. It also says gender / this body is transitory. A part of the illusion. Only when we can see past these physical shells will we spiritually progress. Unfortunately too many Singhs are stuck in their gender identities (Ego) to get past it and recognize that SAME divine light in all equally.

You can choose to follow RMs that focus instead more on the phsyical shells. I'll follow the RM that sees every soul as equal.

There are many sakhiys in our sikh panth where gurbani patt resolve social/health/spiritual problems. In fact we have granth called- sharda pooran granth by bhai mani singh ji is faith based granth also granth which mentions to do jaap on certain gurbani shabads to resolve family problems bring social-religious/spiritual/economic prosperity

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61582880/Gur-Shabad-Sidhi-Shardha-Puran-Granth-Bhai-Mani-Singh-Ji-Punjabi

Above is all coming from puratan granth-Gur Shabad Sidhi (Shardha Puran Granth) (Bhai Mani Singh Ji) punjabi -faith building granth used in puratan samparda's where certain shabads are given for bhagti help, health improvement, spiritual/social/religious issues/hindrances social-religious/spiritual/economic prosperity.. approach is also bit like kids beginning like approach as kids have strong faith in anything, when parent want its kid to jaap of vahiguroo, usually greed (lalach) is given in return- baba farid when he was small he was given greed by his parents if he does jaap of vahiguroo, he would get gur(shakar ganz) equivalent to candy every day from vahiguroo, so in this way one is slowly attached with gurbani, once its attached with gurbani one feel naturally de-attached from world if one is receptive enough as one point gurbani mantra/pauri draw seeker in. I agree its bit of slippery slope but why worry? Everything is in hakum, Gurbani knows best how to draw people in when where and how when once one started do its jaap with receptivity full faith without egoic self coming in a way everything happens , traditionally in gurbani we have bhagat dhru who did bhagti for raaj initially and then got saved later on when jaap drawed him in fully and also baba farid sakhi doing jaap of vahiguroo for candy when he was kid.

its a little conflict oriented ..but you have to be stiff..whenever she suggests with folded hands say Sat Nam Sri Waheguru and touch her feet ..do not argue and counter argue ..i too have faced this ..but mine was easier since my mom even if she consults them will not do any of their vidhi vidhaan suggested..