Noor

I'd just like to say that Jamuka's first reply to this topic was neither hostile nor personal. It was only after he was 'threatened' with a warning did he reply in a more sarcastic tone. And rightly so. Why should he get a warning for stating his opinion about moneh Sikhs? How many different erm 'types' (dont know what other word to use here) of Sikhs are there/can there be?

Why were posts deleted?? Alrite BabbarSher your right, I'm wrong. Happy? I'm not gonna sit here and keep arguing about why I believe in inter-religion marriages being alrite. I dont have all the answers to your questions. All I know is that I have seen them work and I believe they can/do work. Between two very religious people they might not, but between others they do. And maybe thats it... maybe I aint as religious as you.

Can someone define Sehajdhari please?

True.. but its sad isnt it, when you've identified yourself by a certain religion and then you have people of that same religion telling you that you dont belong. But man I stand by my views and if in the end theyre wrong then I'll have to answer for them, but I have enough faith in what I believe to do so. So true..and I honestly believe that if the amritdhari Sikhs would unite and recognize the other 'Sikhs' as also part of Sikhism.. and not divide it by 'oh I'm a real Sikh cuz I took amrit and your not even a Sikh cuz you havent' .. then Sikhi would really grow and you would have more people actually turning to it. But no one wants to be a part of something where they aint wanted. ^ I believe that the 'jatt' issue doesnt matter as much to my parents personally as does the issue of what other Sikhs (society) may think if their daughter was to marry a non-jatt. They seem to care too much of what others will think, and it annoys me but I cant change anything.. can only make sure that when I have kids I dont do the same thing. No way am I giving up Sikhi just because other people think I dont belong. It just puts me off talking to them, but of course I wouldnt give up my beliefs because of a few comments. See thats the thing. Where I live there are loads of Sikhs.. but none of them have ever told me that I'm not a Sikh. But according to members of this forum, I dont think they would qualify to be called Sikhs because only half of them are amritdhari. And you know what the funniest thing is, an amritdhari Sikh looking down on you and then next contradicting his whole belief by making a comment that supports the caste system. :roll: I dont know who the Niranjana guy is :? ..but I like yours and Lalleshvari's views. Theyre quite similar to mine.

I aint stopping you from posting your views am I now. :roll: Its such a shame that some people are so closed minded and go around making judgements on others when really they have no right to judge. I could make quite a few comments of what I think of such people, but naw allow it :roll: And I dont know how many times I have to make it clear that this isnt bout me and some non-Sikh guy. And bout all this crap that you guys are on about Sikh and non-Sikh marriages and the problems they lead to... well I'm telling you they work cuz I've seen them work. Marriage between a Muslim and a Sikh..it works... between a Catholic and a Sikh.. works. And the kids arent out of control. Theyre parents are actually more strict than most Sikh parents. BabbarSher - I can tell you the answers from a Nirgura's view.. since I am not a Sikh .. u still want me to answer? (and NO N30 Singh..u didnt offend me or put me down.. I do understand what your saying)

There you go.. replied to it all.

I've read it... and posted my opinion on it.

If going to the gurdwara, praying, the only time i can think of actually doin sewa is twice every yr for 3 days each time.. for the past 8 yrs, going to the nagar keertan (not to socialize but for religious purposes), and learning more about sikhi count... then yes, I am spiritually growing. But if it doesnt count for you all.. then forget this. I dont drink, smoke, go clubbin, dont spread hate, dont believe in the caste system.. The only thing I probably do that you would disagree with is view people of all religions to be equal and the fact that I dont think marrying one of them is wrong.. oh and the other thing--> I havent taken amrit yet. Funny thing is Muslims stand united even if some are very religious and others are just called Muslim because they were born into a Muslim home.. and here we have Sikhism (which is supposed to be more accepting) in which Sikhs are telling others who is and isnt a Sikh. Well anywayz... Each to his own --> I'll follow my beliefs and you to yours. Good day

I'm sorry but I did not find your post to be inspiring at all. Hope you arent offended by any of my comments.. But you have to realise that not everyone is gonna view things from the same perspective. I am trying to change my ways and trying to follow Sikhi.. but when I read or hear stuff like what you posted, it really puts me off .. and then I just want to carry on with practicing religion in my own way.

Can someone tell me wot AKJ is :?

N30 S!NGH - oh acha lol.. i see.. Santa/Banta jokes.. are they the ones bout sardars? Those sardar jokes are a little too overdone.. I mean no one is as dumb as the sardar jokes imply.... sorry for goin off topic.. I'll go post in that topic :arrow:

I like Lalleshvari's views... seems like a very tolerant guy. Nuff respect to him.

^ Its k and no you didnt offend me. I think along the same lines. BabbarSher - I just wanted to point out AGAIN that there isnt a non-sikh guy that I'm leaving Sikhism for :roll: I was asking in general... and I understand all the points you've all made.. but I still stand by my belief of it being alrite Mr Singh - ^ Its stuff like this that sometimes makes me wonder why I'm practicing Sikhi when I am not even considered a Sikh. But yet still I believe so it doesnt matter what people say, still gets to me once in a while tho. Have any of you people that think this way, ever thought that when you make statements like the one that guy made above, it makes some people on the path of Sikhi want to turn away from it? Then you wonder why there are atheists in Sikh families.

Right on Jamuka can I ask why do u have a warning?

Totally agree with that. Sad thing is that... I cant marry who I want. My family tho they are a bit open minded when it comes to the guys, wont let the girls marry anyone but "jatt" Sikhs. And me being someone who believes neither in the caste system nor in marrying ONLY into your own religion bit, is stuck without much choice. But thnx for the above... Its nice to know that someone thinks on the same lines as me CaNaDiAn_jAtTi .. thnx

Mr Singh.. yes that was a good response. So who do I marry then if I havent taken amrit? According to such strict principles I wouldnt be considered a Sikh. So where does that leave me? If I believe in Waheguru..believe in the ten gurus and go to the gurdwara.. but believe that people should be treated equally and religion shouldnt matter in marriage.. what does that make me? I've been told by amritdhari Sikhs before too that I wouldnt be considered a Sikh.. but I say who gives them the right to tell me that.. just because they are more religious than me? But doesnt God reside in all of us.. after all he did create all of us .. I am not marrying a non-sikh :? . In fact I am not getting married to anyone as of now and not until a few years. I was discussing my views on the topic of marrying a non-sikh.. which i think is perfectly alrite.

wots Lalleshvari mean? :?

By being respectful and accepting of their beliefs Like what would you do if tomorrow your son or daughter decides to follow a different religion..not because they are romantically involved with someone of that religion..but just because it appeals to them? I know you will say 'How can that be possible if I teach my kid everything about Sikhi? Why would anyone want to convert?" But be realistic and you know it can happen. Your son could find Buddhism more appealing.. or maybe Islam because in certain ways its more man dominated.. wutever the religion may be.. wut to do then? Each person should worry more about themselves following a path to God correctly rather than in which way another is doing it.. even if that person may be related to you I mean doesnt it say in Sikhi that we shouldnt be too attached to material things and people in our lives because in the end none of it will go on with us.. we will go alone So yes teach your children about Sikhi.. and hopefully they will follow it.. but theres nothing you can do if they dont..cept maybe pray that they change their ways And thats why I believe it shouldnt matter if the person you marry is of a different religion.. you cant have a kid grow up in a religion.. the kid needs to believe it with his/her heart.. only then thru learning it on their own because they want to.. will they be following Sikhism I know sum people from different parts of the world who were born as Sikhs but are now either atheist, converts, or claim to be Sikhs yet dont really follow it. (Sorry for making that so long.. n if it went a lil off topic :? .. I love Sikhi..and am trying to follow it s best as I can... but I dont like hate amongst religions and division amongst ppl in any way just because of religion)

"Does it really matter, if it does?" Course it matters.. if someone was a true Sikh then they wouldnt try to divide the world up even more than it already is... wasnt that one of the main purposes of Guru Nanak ji anyways? To get rid of the caste system.. that one is neither a hindu nor a muslim.. that we are all God's children n then you have other Sikhs tellin u who u can and cannot marry..why? Because their of a different religion.. a different path to God. To me thats contradicting earlier teachings.. and if its the direction in which Sikhism is heading, than Sikhism will be no different than Islam or any other religion... it will only divide.. not unite people.

and you think people of the Khalsa are always correct? They cant ever corrupt or change sumtin to suit their views? Only Waheguru can judge.. and people..well even the religious can become corrupt.. unless u deny that? I guess thats why I have a problem with the Rehats and Takhat.. I'd rather just follow Guru Granth Sahib ji

My uncle is married to a Muslim.. and they go to the gurdwara together...their kids go to the gurdwara I see nothing wrong with Sikh and non-Sikh marriages. And I'm most certain that Guru Nanak ji, a man who taught people that there should be no discrimination amongst themselves, would not forbid a Sikh marrying a non-Sikh. Politics and society has changed Sikhism into another 'us vs them' religion.

Why does Guru Gobind Singh ji forbid marrying non-Sikhs when Guru Nanak ji doesnt?

Well think bout it urself instead of listening to other people I mean why is it that the Rehat Maryada is completely contradicting the first guru, the founder of all this, Guru Nanak ji's teachings? If all 10 gurus were all "in touch" with God.. then how did the message change with time? Politics. Infernal Monk - I think Guru Nanak ji did know about Christianity and Jewism ( I could be wrong tho)

But if Guru Granth Sahib is supposed to be all we are to follow.. then why does the Akal Takhat get to add to it?

How would one control them? By conquering their desires?