JustAnotherSingh

Just wondering, what is the source of Uggardanti? Not existent in Dasam Granth from cursory googling. Not that it invalidates the tukhs you cited, but just kind of curious on a tangent I think there are a couple aspects to look at here. First off, without doubt, Sikhs traditionally did not consume beef. Goat and pork were the main delicacies, but beef was a no-no. Ranjit Singh banned beef slaughter throughout the empire, and many British sources noted how the Sikh Sardars detested beef as much as smoking. I also thought I read somewhere that Ratan Singh Bhangoo included an episode in Lahore where Singh's see a butcher taking a cow out to slaughter and put him to sword, although I can't find that now via control+f of my copy of the work (which is this, by the way. I hope it's accurate?-http://sikhinstitute.org/gpp_v1.pdf) In terms of the contemporary, Nihangs specifically have an injunction against beef. I know that Namdharis, a pacifist Sikh "sect" of sorts, go crazy about cows. They broke their pacifism to kill beef butchers in Malerkotla. The more difficult question to ascertain is what does Sikh philosophy teach about beef. From my reading of Guru Granth Sahib and vaaran, very little to actually suggest this. Guru Nanak criticized the Brahmin practice of applying cow dung. Bhai Gurdas also wrote this: " dhaekh paraaeeaaa(n) cha(n)geeaaa(n) maavaa(n) bhainaa dhheeaaa(n) jaanai||The Sikh ought to treat beautiful women of others as his mothers, sisters and daughters. ous sooar ous gaae hai par dhhan hi(n)dhoo musalamaanai||Others’ wealth for his is as beef for Hindu and pork for a Muslim." corroborated by folks such as Bhangoo, which suggests the religious taboo for Sikhs equivalent to that for Hindus+beef is more like adultery/thievery than dietary restrictions. Why were ancient Sikhs so apprehensive of cow-meat then? Very obvious reason, and that's that the cow is just a culturally respected animal. I personally eat beef (non-halal of course) but none of my family in India does-my father tells me that on his first time eating a burger, he felt very odd about it considering how he thought of cows in his childhood. And it wasn't that there was a heightened sacredness or anything of the sort for him. It was just...cows were considered man's best friend just like dogs or horses in the West, so why kill them for taste? They have a ton of value anyway outside of beef, such as milk and labor. I openly admit that, yes, I eat beef. Why? I think times have changed, and while I consider myself a Punjabi Sikh and align with that heritage, I don't personally care about dead cows as much as my ancestors did. I haven't found a compelling reason within Sikh philosophy or even codes of conduct to do so (although I do expect if I take Amrit I'll prob stop eating beef anyway as I'll focus on hunting for meat instead of store-bought). Finally, I think some of the stuff surrounding the sacredness of the cow just is sort of ajeeb to me (again, my personal views)-the fixation on cow urine and dung, valuing a farm animal's life more than a human's (Banda Bairagi's discussion with Guru Gobind Singh comes to mind), the fact that buffaloes aren't valued at all and are even sometimes ritually slaughtered, and so on. I do admit, it is always funny how Westerners who will sign petitions online to "STOP the EVIL practice of eating dogs in Korea," yet mock and lament contemporary Hindus+Desis for being "cow-worshippers." Sorry if there was a lot of my personal thoughts and not enough source material for you.

Bingo. At the same time, I concede there's a flip side of the coin that isn't optimal either. I'm talking the "liberal" Sikhs you often find on social media who think Sikhi is all about "tolerance bro," and sharing shitty image macros with fake quotes from Baba Nanak on them. Also the types who will go on about how "turban and hair are irrelevant in the modern world, just be a good person" (as if there were no good people without turban and beard historically and as if the purpose of turban and beard is to be a good person). They're not really informed about the spirituality of Sikhi either for that matter, but something about them puts me off. In the similar manner that way too many fighter-Jatt and Jathebandi-types, even historically, isolated one aspect of Guru Gobind Singh's philosophy (martial spirit and discipline/codes of conduct) and kind of run with only that, oblivious to his and other Gurus' teachings, there are quite a few of these people who particularly enhance one aspect of Guru Nanak's philosophy (tolerance, undermining of religious institutions/identity) and run with only that. I suppose the aspect people capitalize on depends quite a bit on their personal experience growing up, whether it's a rich suburb in a modern Western country or a 19th century pind in Punjab, as they'll mold Sikhi to fit that lifestyle. Both groups need to recognize that the aspects that they collapse on are indeed crucial to overall Sikh thought, but have a periphery of supporting ideals and philosophy to give them real power+significance.

I agree a lot what's being said in this thread. My personal experience is that I grew up as a mona w/out any view of what Sikhi was. I did not like Gurdware at all as they appeared to just be political rallies for Khalistan and places where I was judged for cutting hair. Ironically, 3HO people as well as really spiritual Singh's (some of whom were Namdhari I think) inspired me to learn more about Sikhi and its spirituality, and as I got more into the faith, I started keeping hair years ago. In the end of the day, I came out of it disagreeing with a *lot* of what 3HO had to say, after doing my own personal reading. But I feel as if too many people isolate the Sikh identity and martial spirit, combine that with their personal Jatt-values, and say that's what Sikhi is about without recognizing the very strong inner-spiritual core. Bani defines the bana, the spiritual values are what gives power to the identity.

Hello, 18 year old from Amreeka popping in. Rather like this forum...lots of critical thought that goes about (even if you have to separate from the noise). Particularly like the analysis of old texts for what they are, even when opposed to our modern views of what Gurmat are. I'm personally interested in analyzing contemporary Sikh culture in terms of what our Khalsa ancestors were like. There's a lot of interesting tidbits I could go on even here. For example, in the 1980s, a lot of our intelligentsia was focused on showing that Sikhi's perpetual enemy was the Bahman. In the 1950's and during misl times, we cited the Turk as our greatest fiend. In Britain today, because of the dynamic between Muslims+Sikhs, there tends to be a trend towards that type of thinking, and in Amreeka, it's more between Sikhs and Hindus if anything. Basically-Sikh history is still in formation, even if our ideals of Khalsa have sorta been watered down in the modern Anyways, just a taste of what I have to say. WJKK WJKF.