gupy

exactly paji. Shouldn't be surprised really, a monkey does what monkeys do, the SGPC does what ... (i'll let you finish it off)

VJKK VJKF On the topic of Raagi Nihung Balbir Singh, can anyone explain how the whole Raag/ musical/ poetry structure of Dasam and Sarbloh Gur Darbaars works? EG when Baljeet and Gurmeet perform shabads from Dasam Guru, are they picking the raag at random? Or is it more subtle than that? Furthermore, alot of ppl say the Raag they use is Raag Malkaus for their shabads, does anyone know the raags used for 1) Meri Abai Sun Lejai 2) Jaggerdang Naggerdang 3) Tum ho Sabh Rajan ke Raja ??? ...ALso thanks Muggermach i'll get the transaltions off you soon, dont need the haldi no more tho , lol Thanks

VJKK VJKF It seems like u guys know ur stuff, so wanted to ask if anyone cud post a translation and transliteration of the Shabad 'Meri Abai Binti Sun Lejai'. Where does this shabad appear in Gurbani? I really liked Baljeet and Gurmeet Naamdharis kirtan. Also does anyone have any other Bir Ras shabads done by these two other than 'Jaagardang Naagardang ... " ? Thnks

VJKK VJKF Has anyone got a translation of this shabad? Does anyone know where it is from. I've listened to the Baljeet and Gurmeet performenace and would really like to know thi s information. Thanks Gupy

VJKK VJKF A brilliant post, thanx for that. What are anyones thoughts about how Raag Vidiya can be brought back to the mainstream. ALso what about Naamdharis, how would you rate their kirtan along side traditional forms. What about Sufi influences? By the way, at Warwick Uni, i'm organising an event to promote Indian Musical Culture. I hope to make this the start of something new, and invite all to come.

VJKK VJKF Hi guys, I've just read this whole forum for the first time and i think its really good, so thank you all for your input. If I could, I'd like to make a few observations about modern day perceptions. Is it fair to say that in the whole we have none or very little understanding of sex as Sikhs. We seek the truth, and want to learn, but seemingly are in constant denial of ourselves, let me explain this further... The majority of Sikhs today will not deal with issues about sex, apart from simple statements like STOP IT if your asking about it or thinking something bad. But to play devils advocate, why is it bad to have sexually orientated thoughts about the opposite sex? I know it Gurbani warns us about the poison of sexual desire (and I agree!!!), but for discussion I want to really think through why this is the case on a broader point of view One answer I am able to give is that Sikhi is about compassion and love. Hence the reason why the issue of Sex is so difficult for most of us to deal with. On one hand it can be seen as a great tool in both of these two things. On the other, it can keep you away from them. Lets get more 'realistic' and practical about it. When you (purposefully or not) 'check out' someones figure say (i.e. think of them in a purely physical way) ask your self what is the underlying thought... so if I walk past a girl tomorrow, and as she moves past me, I look around and concentrate my attention on her shapely figure, what is it that I’m thinking. Lets face it, I’m not admiring the aesthetics of natural beauty. If any of us really push this thought (GUYS!!!!) we have to be brave enough to admit, that even if we’ve convinced ourselves that we don’t want to be the kind of guys that see women as sexual objects, that every time you have such a lapse, your actually thinking of some pretty ‘graphic’ things. As far as I’m concerned you can admit to that, or you can’t. BUT I believe its truth for the vast majority of us. Now whats the point in this you might be thinking… What I’m trying to highlight is the fact that such thoughts exist, and if we are to proclaim something/someone as our Guru, then surely it is reasonable to say that such a perfect Guru can educate us in such matters. I know Guru ji warns us of Kaam, but further to that I believe Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually helps us address it using our own intellect. So as many people may proclaim some works of Guru ji as ‘pornographic’, I take the opinion that they are very necessary in our own understanding of ourselves. Without which you will NEVER conquer Kaam, as you will never have addressed it to its fullest potential. You cannot defeat something you do not understand or recognise. Thank you if you’ve bothered to read this to its end, I hope you can give me some stimulating feedback

VJKK VJKF Is shastar Namaskaar worshipping weapons. Doesn't Shastar Pooja have a great influence in terms of reading of Dasam Granth shabads (e.g. Shastar Maalaa). In just the same way you 'namaskaar' an elder or ustat. But by doing so you are not worshipping these people. By showing RESPECT to Chandi or shastar or what/who ever, you are not worshipping them, and this is made very clear in the bani of both Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth Ji. The respect of weapons (shaster) is very important to any Martial art. As for those who practise, plan to die with them. So to conclude, I don't believe it is the intentions of the Akali Nihung Singh Khalsa to worship any Shastar in the place of Akaal. I personally Namaskaar my shastar, but I DO NOT see them as Akaal, as Akaal is only that which is eternal and Shastar are not. (Also is why Shastar is also laid before Guru Granth Sahib Ji in most Gurdwara.) Gupy

VJKK VJKF Thanks again for the detailed reply BabbarSher. With regards to Q5, the maryada I refer to is the general one of doing Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Chaupae Sahib, Anand Sahib and Swaiyya in the morning (Nitnem). I haven’t read a lot of Charitropakhyan, only a few ‘tales’ here and there. I’ve just started getting into this bani. I started on the basics like Jaap Sahib, Akaal Ustat, start of Bachittar Natak, Chandi Di Var, extracts of Shastar Maalaa and Chaupae Sahib. I’m just waiting for my exams to finish then I’ll really get into it. The one thing I did want to do, is just read Charitropakhyan straight away, since it seems a logical assertion that due to its nature, I’ll need a good understanding before hand. With regards to the issue of sex, from what I understand at this point, we have to face the fact that sex is the perfect example of an issue we as Sikhs CANNOT deal with today. I agree with paji/penji that we have been greatly influenced by the british in this respect. From a common sense point of view, our Guru ( hence teacher of life) had to address this issue. The fact that we are so poor at doing so today, is a reflection (perhaps) of our own lack of understanding on this subject (not to say I have any of my own). I simply would take the opinion that Guru ji is ‘educating’ us. But as I said, I need to read a lot more before I can really respond, however I would point out another aspect of Dasam Granth JI, i.e. the Bir ras shabads. From the message I’m getting, you seem to agree that Jaap & Akaal Ustat are ‘OK’, but the others aren’t (based on your own understanding). I suppose, we can only keep trying to understand this work, at the end of the day, I’m not really going to base my whole concept of this bani purely on any scholars work. Instead, I shall take on board any ones opinions and form my own opinions (so please do send the links). On a wider point isn’t this one of the ways you should understand all bani???? From ones own limited point of view make as much sense as you can, but often Gurbani really only kicks in when you need it most (i.e. as reflection of ones own life experiences/developments), just got to be as good a disciple as you can. Right now, based on rational and logical thought as well as the ‘experience’ of the bani itself, I must take the opinion that it is of Guru’s hand. It fills in so many wholes in some my understandings (especially with regards Khalsa and Singh, as opposed non- Singh Sikh). Hope there’s someone else out there that can really answer your questions, I’d like to hear as many responses as possible (Veechar is all good at the end of the day) Thanks Again

what did the british do.... 1. Why do I not see Raag Vidiya in a 'Gurdwara'. 2. Why do i see 'SInghs' dancing with swords... 3. Why do i see a Khalsa and Sikh community more divided than ever before 4. Why is it that only non-punjabi sikhs (like white ones) actually can use Sikhi practically, while us 'simpletons' following our various self proclaimed leaders are slowly and painfully losing our heritage. My brothers and sisters, I fear in 50 years time i'll be sitting in a lecture hall, looking at some beautiful (non-indian) Singhs and Singhnia telling me about their Sikhi, whilst back in my local (Gurdwara) next ppl are argueing over eating meat or sometin like that. When are we gonna learn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VJKK VJKF Thanks to BabbarSher, for your opinion. I agree that Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't compile the Dasam Darbaar himself, however the point you make about reading certain parts, I currently am. Check out this link for the letter written by Bhai Mani Singh about compling Guru Ji's work: http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/Scriptures/...am%20granth.htm But my main questions haven't been answered, SO PLZ ANY! COME IN AND LET US KNOW WHAT U THINK???? I've read some of your stuff, and I know theres enough of you out there that have opinions on the 6 questions i posed, thanks again to Babbarsher for replying.

Sorry if this comment seems out of place, as I've just joined in, first of all Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh. I'd like to ask a few questions/points I would like yourselves to pick up on : 1) Without Dasam or Sarbloh Granths, what references from Guru have we got to any of our martial tradition (or Khalsa in general). 2) Surely without the influence of this Bani we would lack a major part of the Singh Guru Ji created, not to say Guru Granth Sahib Ji isn't a perfect teacher. 3) Isn't the fact that we've turned our back on this Gurbani the reason why we are today? How do you know that those who conspired to have them taken away, intended this to be the case. 4) Surely form a purely academic point of view (i.e. structure of poetry, mythology and application) the work of GuruGobind Singh Ji should be Widely acknowledged. 5) If you refuse to see Dasam and Sarbloh Granths in the same light of Bani, then why do most people do 3 out of 5 shabads from outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Surely this 'Maryada' of Nitnem stems from an old one where all 3 Granths are held high? 6) And at the end of the day, politics and other stuff aside, if this bani helps you, then whats wrong? My personal experience shows me that this bani has an effect, and to me feeling is believing. Just take Jaap Sahib or Chaupae... there just as special as Japji Sahib or Anand Sahib. Again from an academic point of view, the seem to have similar intricacy as Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I hope you can help me out, this is just the way I see it, and putting it against the back drop of our history in the 19th and 20th century, there’s got to be some reason why we are the way we are today? Thank you