Freed

These pictures are of a chakar and 2 arrow heads said to belong to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sorry for the divided pictures - they wouldn't fit on my scanner. The description says that these articles were found in the Sarovar of Gurdwara Wadd Tirath, Haripur. At that time the Gurdwara was looked after by Udhasi Sadhus - whilst performing Kar sewa of the sarovar these articles, along with a sword and pothi containing a Vaak of Guru Gobind Singh were found. It is claimed the Udasis brought the relics to Bhaini Sahib , the headquarters of the Namdharis - to their then 'Guru' Hari Singh (which would date this account around 1872 to 1906) - He said as Bhaini Sahib was under British police watch - it wasn't safe to keep such treasures - he gave the pothi and sword back to the udasis but kept the chakar and arrow heads. These shasters are now kept in the Bhaini Sahib Toshekhana. I believe Sikhawareness has some Namdhari members - could they confirm if these relics are still at Bhaini Sahib ? have they seen them ? please post any info you have . The chakar and teers have a coin like amount of gold on them - Dhadi Jathas always sing in their vaars that Guru Sahib's arrows were set with gold - thereby Guru Sahib sent 'payment ' to the family of whoever was killed by the arrows - money for wood for a pyre or for a grave. You can see many historic weapons that have gold on them though usually this is in the form of Koftgari work or a cartouche - these weapons have been set with what appear to be gold Mohurs / coins - which make them unusual -- Once again I ask the Sangat if they have any info please post it . The Chakar has a date 1753 which would correspond with AD 1696 - it also has an inscription which is hard to make out, it could be " xxxxx Apaar 1753 Sudarshan Chakar " The chakar also has a 3 pronged mark - I have a chakar , a modern one bought by my Dad in the early 1990s from Anandpur , it also has that mark - does it have any significance ?? if you have any thoughts please post them. * Pictures from - Pirtan, Cultural Kosh ,Bhag 1 - C S Chan 1984

Dear CE Many Thanks for your input - I have looked up the Gurbani references and heres what I found : *from Siri Guru Granth Sahib Kosh - Bhai Vir Singh - Singh Bros - 2003 ed *from A Guru Nanak Glossary - C Shackle - SOAS - 1981 mehaadhaeo gun ravai sadhaa jogee jath ja(n)gam || Shiva, the Yogis and the wandering hermits sing His Praises forever. * This Shabad is by Bhatt Kal in Svaiyay Mehl 5 on Pannaa 1390 http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5362 Cheers CE !!

Here is a translation of the Shabad in the above "leaf" aasaa mehalaa 5 || apunae saevak kee aapae raakhai aapae naam japaavai || jeh jeh kaaj kirath saevak kee thehaa thehaa out(h) dhhaavai ||1|| saevak ko nikattee hoe dhikhaavai || jo jo kehai t(h)aakur pehi saevak thathakaal hoe aavai ||1|| rehaao || this saevak kai ho balihaaree jo apanae prabh bhaavai || this kee soe sunee man hariaa this naanak parasan aavai ||2||7||129|| Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: He Himself preserves His servants; He causes them to chant His Name. Wherever the business and affairs of His servants are, there the Lord hurries to be. ||1|| The Lord appears near at hand to His servant. Whatever the servant asks of his Lord and Master, immediately comes to pass. ||1||Pause|| I am a sacrifice to that servant, who is pleasing to his God. Hearing of his glory, the mind is rejuvenated; Nanak comes to touch his feet. ||2||7||129|| This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 403 http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1563

Yeh mera dohita Bani ka bohita benega The words of Guru Amar Das on the birth of his grandson - Guru Arjan Sahib To mark the Shaheedi Purb of Guru Arjan Dev Ji , here is a Pahari portrait of Guru Sahib. The portrait shows an Udasi (described as "a grey yogi " by F S Aijazuddin - Pahari Paintings & Sikh Portraits - 1977) - Could this be a depiction of Baba Siri Chand - elder son of Guru Nanak Sahib ? Please post your thoughts please. Circa AD 1800, Guler, Pahari - The portrait is from the Lahore Museum Collection. Inscribed on reverse - 'Panchvi Padshahi Guru Arjan' Description: Guru Arjan dressed in an embroidered orange 'jama', reads from the Adi Granth (the holy scriptures of the Sikhs), complied during his reign from the teachings of Guru Nanak. A naked grey yogi sits on his left, listening. An orange curtain is rolled at the top of the picture. ( Ref: F S Aijazuddin 1977) This next picture shows a leaf with ' Penti-Akhari' - the 35 letters of the Gurmukhi script - in the Handwriting of Guru Arjan. - It is in the Collection of Bhai Suchet Singh, Village Bhai Rupa, Moga,Punjab. The family claims this leaf is one of several relics given to Bhai Rupa by Guru Hargobind Sahib. * both pictures taken from The Sikh Heritage - Dr Daljeet - 2004

Thanks Bhai Sahib !

Dear BAZ , You might like this site - it's full of info about the pioneer Sikh / Asian / East Indian immigrants to the Pacific Coast - some great Photographs, Articles and stories. There is also info on the Sikh and some Muslim men that married Mexican women and the resultant 'mixed' families - Fascinating stuff ! http://people.lib.ucdavis.edu/tss/punjab/

Here is an illustration from a Janam Sakhi manuscript from the 1800s "Guru Nanak resists the overtures of courtesans of Kamrup while journeying to Assam in eastern Indian. His devoted minstrel, Mardana, enchanted by the seductive beauty of these women, is metaphorically depicted as a ram. Guru Nanak persuades the courtesans to live virtuous lives." Manuscript in the Sabi and Amrin Marwah Collection. (Ontario) * picture and text taken from The Arts of the Sikh Kingdoms - The Canadian Collections - Seema Bharadia - ROM - 2000

Here is a photograph taken by my cousin - of when Sant Isher Singh Ji came to our home town in 1975 - (Bedfordshire UK). The Divan was held in a school hall - as there was no Gurdwara then.

Thank you for this post N30 and SAdmin ! One of my earliest memories of Sikhi as a child was going to Divans of Sant Isher Singh Ji - in 1975 in Hitchin Hertfordshire UK - Sant Ji would always sing this 'Maya vich Udasi' shabad of Bhai Gurdas as well as the 'Me jan tera' shabad of Bhagat Ravi Das - as a child I was entranced - I used to love the 'tune' SantJi would play before starting kirtan and would love to sing along loudly with the 'Gur Ustotar' at the end of the divan - a have a video of this divan and I still love that 'Dhan he ..' and all the sangat singing - first Sant Ji, then the men, then the women . Pure Bliss !

I remember the Murder of Gurdip Chagger by Neo Nazis in Southall - It was in the big drought of 1976 - it was a big wake up call for everyone - I remember not being allowed to go out to play for a while - All parents were really scared. Where I lived there were very few black and brown faces - us kids were very much affected by politics - the NF and skinheads were everywhere - At school half the boys wore the skinhead 'uniform' of ox blood DMs, brown laces and ben sherman shirts- it was trendy - even I had one of them green bomber jackets and a fred perry shirt. I have a vivid memory of sitting- with Fiona , Angela and Manoj, the only other non white people in my year- on the school field at play time - the day after Thatcher was elected - and all of us saying - that's it we're gonna be 'sent back' - we were 9 - so all our parents must of had worries. I don't want to paint the 70s as a nightmare - yes we had troubles - but for me it was a glorious time - for me the 70s were filled with long hot summers - playing out til it was dark and Music - a passion that hasn't left me - started off by 'Slade' then Bob Marley , The Clash and then the Ska / Mod revival of The Beat , The Specials , The selector etc. - I am still a Vinyl record fanatic (Bit of a sad mix of ska ,eighties and Sad Indie Kid - I must be the only Singh who was and is a big Smiths/Morrissey Fan! - all mixed with Punjabi and a bit of Hindi and Raag!) - for me the best time to be had in the 70s was going to town on a Saturday to buy a new 'single' 7" and playing it to death on our rickety old record player. My nephews and nieces are fascinated by my records - its always 'Mama put one of those 'black things' on' !! Our house was always full of people and full of music -Shabads, Punjabi Hindi and English. Great Days ! ** Amandeep thanks for the "Home Front " tip - will look it up ! The 70s was also a time of politics - I was struck by something 'tSingh' wrote in another post - about being the only Singh at some anti war / poverty demos - I remember always going on demos in the 70s - some IWA ones some Labour / union ones some anti Racist and some Sikh related - Motor cycle Helmet vs Turban and the right to wear turbans at school. 'tSingh' is right I think we've become complacent and too comfortable - I remember going to a benefit meeting for the Miners during the strike and this woman from Huddersfield gave me a hug and said Sikhs helped to feed us during the tough times of the strike - she said the Gurdwara first provided Langar - a bit unfamiliar she said ( it was the 80s - the days before the tikka masala explosion !) - and then gave English food - - We ALL need to keep this sort of sewa up.

Many Thanks for the extra info !!!

This post might make me sound like some nostalgic old git - I am always accused of sounding like an extra on the BBC 2 show 'I love the 70s / 80s' - and to be honest I am an Old Git ! These images capture scenes from the Sikh experience in Britain in the 1970s - The subtitle of this post could be "Things you don't see anymore" Many of the photographs were taken by Dennis Morris in Southall between 1974 and 1977 - Morris is famous for his Iconic photographs of The Sex Pistols and Bob Marley (found in every Student House !) Of all the Dennis Morris images my absolute favourite is this one : * taken from Southall - a home from home - Dennis Morris Satinder Chohan - Olympus Cameras 1999 This picture of a smiling Ma ji from a Southall shop in 1975 - for me sums up the Sikh immigrant experience in Britain - I think everyone can relate to this picture - everyone has a Ma Ji or Bibi like this - or knows one - One who always has her head covered as if her chuni has been invisiblely stapled to her head ( modern women will agree that this is a lost art - modern chunnis are always slipping off the head ) This type of Bibi has a special 'winter coat' and is never without her huge 'Margaret Thatcher' handbag and big purse. The picture also shows the now disappearing Classic Indian corner shop - with its stock stacked haphazardly - Colgate next to PG Tips ! . Copies of the Des Pardes in racks Note the greenery in Ma Ji's hand wrapped in a sheet from a punjabi paper -note the advert for a flight to India for 125 pounds - sounds cheap today but a fortune then - Life in the 70s was hard with the 3 day week ,recession, blatant racism and the NF - but Ma ji's like these took all this in their stride - Smiling and always in Chardi Kala - all we are today is because of their hard work . This picture shows a fine example of the so called 'african' turban - This style with a high peak is seen less and less - usually only among older Sikhs from East Africa . This style was once seen as a 'caste' marker worn only by Ramgarhia Sikhs - pejoratively called a 'batki' pagh or 'Duck' style by some 'Jats' but nowadays it is worn by all sections. Youngsters now prefer smaller black turbans without starch and pins and a less pronounced peak or they wear modified Dumallas or Patiala styles. * taken from Morris and Chohan 1999 'Ring-a-ring-a-Roses' - Girls playing in Manor House gardens - note the tight plaits with ribbons and flower power anoraks - if these girls wore those hoods / hoodies today they would get slapped with an ASBO and a Curfew by the council!! The title of this picture says - ' Sikh children in Britain are often a mixture of East and west. They eat both kinds of food, keep their uncut hair and dress in Western clothes. When they speak they mix English and Punjabi words together . What the result will be by the year 2000 , time alone will tell.' Well it's 2005 what is the result ?? any ideas ? * taken from Meeting Sikhism - Owen Cole , Piara Singh Sambhi 1980 This picture shows a Sikh Publican from the Midlands ( N. Americans that means bar owner !) - it shows the way Immigrants adopted English Pub Culture * from Focus on Faiths - Roger Street - 1974 In a time before i-Pods - a radio casstte was a prized possession - a link to India and Sikhi - before 24hr punjabi radio and TV - the only chance to hear Shabads and Music was on cassette - note the sparse decor the old bedstead and the Lino on the floor - and the suitcases under the bed ready for that trip to visit relatives or a much longed for trip to India. * Morris and Chohan 1999 A Sikh Teacher in the 1970s * Cole & Sambhi 1980 Istri SatSang - Ladies performing kirtan - note the early seventies style - Beehive hairstyles and thick rimmed glasses * Sikhism - Cole & Sambhi 1973 The Phull family - here we can see the tying of boys kesh in plaits - a centre parting and a horizontal plait at the back of the head - affectionately known by my mates as 'The Handle' - this style is seen less today -though it is still popular among those who originally came from E. Africa. Play - there was no Sky TV or Playstations in the 70s if you were lucky you had a train set or scalextric - more often than not you played tag or just made your own entertainment - usu. involved jumping on the bed ! Shopping on the Broadway - Many a saturday was spent on the Broadway - watching movies at the Century or Dominion - eating Jalebis . Eagle eyed viewers will see a poster for X-zecutive Soundz in the window - pioneers of the Daytime Bhangra Gig ! * all from The Sikhs in Britain - Allan de Souza -Batsford 1986 A sikh bride in 1977 - note the old pound notes * Morris & Chohan 1999 In a time before 'who wants to be a millionaire' and 'the Lottery' a prize of "up to £1" was a big deal - note the classic immigrant experience of looking after siblings while also working in the family business ! * Morris & Chohan 1999 The Victory pub - Southall . If you ever telephoned a UK punjabi home in the 1970s on the weekend - the reply you invariably got was "Daddy / Baba pub nu giya " - 'he 's down the Pub ' ! * Morris & Chohan 1999 This last picture is of a Nihang Granthi performing Ardas - I believe in Gravesend, Kent - note the array of 70s turban styles - the Flower power pattern - The starched African style - The large wheel like style with big 'fifty' and of course the Dumalla with farla. *from Holy Books - Robin Davies - 1981 Hope you enjoyed this trip down memory lane - most of you are probably too young to even remember the 70s !! some even the 80s !!!!!!! - God I'm Ancient !

A distressing picture of a bullet hole in the Angs of Sahib Siri Guru Granth Sahib - sustained during the Army attack on Harmandir Sahib in 1984. For Giani Puran Singh's description and other eye witness accounts see ; http://www.sikhs.org/1984b.htm

A mural panel from the samadh of Baba Mohar Singh - located in Tanda, District Hoshiarpur - The samadh can be found in the Nirmala Dera - known as Mast Garh - founded by Baba Mohar Singh. (This Samadh is in a different location from the Lopon samadh, mentioned in a previous post, which is in Ludhiana District). The Samadh has an inscription dated VS 1900 ( AD 1843)- this samadh has 39 painted panels depicting various Sikh and Hindu themes and also has some that depict Shams Tabriz and King Suleiman. This panel depicts Guru Gobind Singh Ji - with the established iconography of Kalgi, falcon,bow and attendant with Chaur - Guru sahib wears a yellow 'Jama' and Dastar with white kamarkasa This panel is of a Nihang Singh - with 'farla' and shasters in his dastar - note the earrings and the 'taveet' or 'tavey' type necklace. This nihang is in the form of a 'Dvarpala' or door guardian - with drawn sword.The author has titled this panel as being from the samadh of Baba Mohar Singh - but it is not clear if this is the one at Lopon or Tanda. Once again I ask the sangat if they have any info - to please post it - the paintings were photographed and described in the 1970's and published in 1985 - so may not be in the same state or still exist. - Your input much appreciated . * both images from Wall Paintings of Punjab and Haryana - Kanwarjit Singh Kang - Atma Ram & sons - 1985

A sketch of Jungli *from An Indian Attachment - Sarah Lloyd - Harvill -1984 Sarah Lloyd has a good eye - and sees things as they are - not through the 'rose tinted' specs of your average NRI punjabi - she accurately captures the stifling lack of privacy in the Pind - the family drama and politics and the Dera politics. Though her type of observation is no longer 'fashionable ' and seen as imposing euro centric ideas on subjects and her methodology a little dated - it is still a cracking read ! If you like the dissection of pind life and all the dramas and politics - you may like Joyce Pettigrew 's 'Robber Noblemen - a study of the political system of Sikh Jats' - Routledge & Kegan Paul - 1975 It may be hard to find but it has some good insights esp Jat family dynamics ,the role of women, importance of 'alliances', village and state factions and 'party' politics - though it also still has some methodology problems.

Quick clarification - when I say the water from a mushk has a 'distinctive' taste - I mean it is surprisingly cold and refreshing in the Punjabi heat - with no leathery taste as you would expect - one of those punjabi mysteries like how the 'Kulfi' seller keeps his kulfi from melting without a freezer !

These pictures are among some of my favourite images - They are all from the 1960s - They capture 'Sewa' in all its manifold and beautiful forms. These pictures show forms of sewa which are now quite rare or have been superseded by modern forms or technology. These Pictures always remind me of the famous Kabitt swaya of Bhai Gurdas Ji * taken from Kabitt Swayey Bhai Gurdas Ji - Bhai Sewa Singh - Singh Bros 2003 pg 392 In this verse Bhai Gurdas illustrates the paramount importance of seva - saying that Five pilgrimages to Ganga and Five pilgimages to Prayaag are the same (have the same 'Punn') as bathing - or doing ishnan sewa once of a Gursikh Giving water to a Gursikh with love and sharda is the same as performing the Kurketar pilgrimage and to feed a Gursikh with love is like performing the Asavmedh Yag ( where a horse is sacrificed to become a Chakrvarti Raja) Building and donating 100 Golden Temples is the same as Teaching one Sikh the Gur-Shabad and having the Darshan of 20 Holy men has the same 'punn' as doing the 'sewa' - foot / muscle massage of one Sikh This first picture shows 'Jal Sewa' the giving of water to all - This scene is rare as water carriers with a Mushk - animal skin 'flask' - are not seen anymore in Punjab - This picture is like the Iconic image of Bhai Kanayia Ji on the battlefield. Anyone who has been to Punjab especially around Guru Arjan Dev ji's shahidi purb - will know that 'Shabeels' giving water, Shardai or 'mitha pani' are very common, though now they don't use a mushk but coolers and chillers - anyone who has drunk water from a mushk will know it has a very 'distinctive ' taste. *taken from Meeting Sikhism - Owen Cole , Piara Singh Sambhi - Longman 1980 pg 20 This picture shows Pukka Seva- Fanning the Sadh Sangat - now also a rare sight - since the Green Revolution and electric fans - though can still be seen during the frequent power cuts in the Summer. *taken from Sikhism - Owen Cole , Piara Singh Sambhi 1973 pg 25 This Picture shows an ustaad and his shagirds - the passing on of Gurmat musical knowledge - according to Bhai Gurdas Ji the equivalent to building and donating 100 Golden Temples - also a rarer sight today. * taken from Holy Books - Robin Davies -Longman 1981 pg 18 This last picture shows Bhagat Puran Singh in the Pingalwara - where help is given freely to all - with Piara Singh. Bhagat Puran Singh Ji had adopted him and described him as as "The garland around my neck" - as he used to carry him around his shoulders . An exceptional Inspirational man - representing the Finest Ideals of Sikhi *taken from Cole and Sambhi 1973 pg30 Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh !

This picture shows the second page of the Dasm Granth - The folio is highly decorated with verses of Jaap Sahib in a decorated circle surrounded by a 10 armed 'panch-mukhi Svachhanda Bhairava' Shiva with Parvati - A depiction of Chandi rising from the flames - A portrait of Guru Nanak with Bala and Mardana - and a Portrait of Guru Gobind Singh on horseback with white falcon and Sikhs with Chakars on their Turbans. The folio has a number of elements - Pahari illustrations with Mughal and Kashmiri border decoration . This Dasm Granth is from Circa 1860-70 and is in the National Museum, Delhi. This next picture is a folio from The Zafarnama - This 1872 illuminated manuscript is in Persian script like the original - and is said to have been scribed by Raja Ram Kaul Tota - a courtier of Maharaja Ranjit Singh It is in the Punjab Archives, Patiala * both pictures taken from The Sikh Heritage - Dr Daljeet - 2004

This post is for all "The Antiques Roadshow " fans ! A Porcelain Jar portraying The Ten Gurus - from the Satsuma Faience Works, Japan - with company mark and dated 1875 - from a private collection - probably made for the Maharajah of Nabha * taken from The Sikh Heritage - Dr Daljeet - 2004

For Parents everywhere - ( Kahlil Gibran - mystic poet ) On Children * taken from The Prophet - Kahlil Gibran - Heinemann - 1972 * taken from Kahlil Gibran De Bachan Bilaas - Prof. Piara Singh Padam - Singh Bros. 1988

I am posting these pictures of Islamic relics as they have a Sikh association - as well as being very interesting pictures .I got these pics from an african website - I have forgotten its name ( Sorry !) The first is the Turban of The Prophet Mohammed Sahib - This is kept in the Badshahi Mosque Lahore - I have read that this relic and others were in the possession of M.Ranjit Singh and they were kept respectfully with other treasures such as The Kalgi of Guru Gobind Singh and The Kartarpuri Bir ( will post ref when I can find it !) in Ranjit Singh's Toshekhana. The next picture is The Rauza - e- Rasool in Madina . This is the tomb of Muhammed Sahib - Please correct me if I am wrong . This is a sight that most Muslims, even those performing Hajj will not see - and as non muslims we are unlikely to see - I posted this because Sahib Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji must of seen this tomb on his journey to Madina I mentioned the Toshekhana of Ranjit Singh this reminds me of the Toshekhana of the Darbar Sahib Amritsar - In the Jalao collection there is a Special Chaur - It is made of Chandan (Sandalwood) This chaur is not made of the usual Yak's Tail it is made of strands or wires made from Sandalwood .It was gifted to Darbar Sahib by Haji Muhammed Maskeen of Lahore in 1925 AD. Haji sahib used 9 Mann 14 ser (indian weights) of sandalwood and produced 145000 fine strands or 'wires' to produce the Chaur which took 5 years of work. - Amazing ! - The chaur bears an Urdu inscription : " Panch baras saat mahine me sandal ke balon ko banate hue ek lakh pantali hazaar balon ka chaur saakta Haji Maskeen dastkaar saras chandan ne banaia. Shah ki Khidmat me Laiaia giya " (Ref - Siri Harmandir Sahib da Sunehri Itihaas - Singh Sahib Giani Kirpal Singh 1991) Can you imagine performing Chaur Sahib Sewa with a Sandal wood Chaur - imagine the Perfume !! "Shah ki Khidmat" - How much 'Sharda' does that show !! - it is said that Haji Sahib made an identical chaur - which he gifted to Makkah Sharif - He saw Amritsar and Makkah as the same - Amazing ! This chaur is only shown on special occasions - in the Akal Takht - You can see it on film in the 1960s Punjabi movie "Nanak Nam Jahaaz Hai " I posted this story because it shows that the Darbar of Guru Sahib is a Royal Darbar - and Guru Sahib King of Kings . I have heard many people say we should 'get rid ' of all the 'rituals' surrounding Guru Sahib in the Gurdwara - What these people fail to see - something that Haji sahib above saw - is that Guru Sahib's Durbar is the Royal Court of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. All these 'Rituals' they see are essential Royal markers - The Chaur, The Chandoa(canopy), Nagaara (drum) Shank(conch) and Musicians(Classical trained - ragis) are all essential markers of Royalty. These markers are universal - Anyone who has seen the State opening of Parliament in England will see that. The Queen arrives in a gold carriage ( Sikh version - the Palki Sahib ) to the sound of trumpets ( Shank and nagaara) she is ceremoniously dressed in the crown and Ermine cloak ( Rumallas and flowers) She walks to the throne with attendants and seated on the throne on a higher level with everyone else standing ( Prakash) .Above her head is a Baldachin - a royal canopy (Chandoa). She gives a speech ( Hukumnama) -no one turns their back to her - All stand when she leaves and great ceremony is made when she retires ( Sukh Asan ) Many believe Sukh asan is when 'Baba Ji' sleeps - Guru Sahib never 'sleeps' - it is Guru Sahib Retiring - like Mughal palaces have a Diwan i aam and a diwan i khas - the first for general audience the second private for rest and private audience . Guru Sahib is the same - In some UK gurdwaras you can see Guru Sahib is left prakash-ed unattended with no chaur sewa - all day - This is disrespectful - if there are no attendents Guru sahib should retire to SukhAsan until an 'audience ' is granted by Guru sahib. I better stop there before this turns into a rant or an Essay !!!!

I forgot to say Amazing Photographs! The photos of the frescoes at the Ranjit Singh Samadh are the first I have ever seen - Many Thanks !! Did you have a chance to go to the Fakirkhana Museum - There was great fanfare in the Pakistani Press that the Fakirkhana collection was going to be digitized and put on the web- I haven't seen any evidence of that on their website - but I guess it's probably early days . The pilgrims that go to Lahore tend not to go to this museum - I think it is 'by appointment' only - the Pakistani press said it is the largest Private collection of Antiquities in Asia - Have you got any pics ? How was your trip to Pakistan ? - I've got a few relatives that have been as independent travellers and they give conflicting accounts - one loved all the "Sardar Ji Sardar ji" attention , one was impressed by the genuine Love shown by the West Punjabis - but one had a hard time - but that might be due to the fact he went a few months after the Indian Nuclear tests !! How was your experience ? - I would love to go - as an Independent traveller not part of the Yatra package - My Mum was born in 'the Baar' Lyallpur district (now Faisalabad ) and was about 7 at partition - I would Love to take her and my Massi so they could see their ancestral homes again.- Plus I've always wanted to see Lahore and Nanakana Sahib.

This picture is of Baba Mohar Singh - Founder of the Maihma Sahi branch of the Nirmalas - from a fresco in the Baba Mohar Singh Samadh - it is described in 'Wall Paintings of Punjab and Haryana' by Kanwarjit Singh Kang as : " The Samadh of Baba Mohar Singh. Baba Mohar Singh was the founder of the 'Maihma Sahi' branch of the Nirmalas. a monastic order of the Sikhs. He was a poet-saint who belonged to the house of Bhai Daya Singh, one of the 'Five Beloveds' of Guru Gobind Singh. He died in 1835 AD and his samadh was built by his disciple named Bir Singh Rangrez near Lopon. The place is situated near Doraha Mandi in district Ludhiana. The samadh is an imposing structure, built on a raised platform approached by a flight of steps. Some of Baba Mohar Singh's garments are respectfully kept on a dias in the centre of the samadh. The interior is painted with frescoes, not only extant but intact and fresh. All the eleven panels with figurative paintings are complete works. Maihma sahi saints and other themes form the subject of these frescoes." *taken from - Wall Paintings of Punjab and Haryana - Kanwarjit Singh Kang - Atma Ram & Sons - 1985 This is a striking full length portrait of Baba and an associate - I'm particularly struck by the stringed instruments and the 'head dress' -- They remind me a little of the headresses that you see 'Jhanghams' wear -Perhaps some of the Nirmalas on SA can expand on the Maihma Sahi Branch - their history etc .Maybe explain the Head dress ? Does this fresco still exist ( the book was published in 1985) - Have any of you visited it - Any info on Baba Mohar Singh - all information greatly appreciated. I apologise if it appears I am 'bombarding' the Forum with questions and pictures - its just that as I am a bit of a Luddite when it comes to new technology - I have only recently learnt how to use a scanner and just this last week discovered ImageShack picture hosting !!! - Don't laugh ! - so its all new to me ( my friends and family are already sick of me sending stuff to them !) Another Question !! - I mentioned 'Jhanghams' - you see them wandering around Punjabi Bazaars - I've seen them in Amritsar and Ludhiana's Chaura Bazaar -- No one has been able to tell me much about them other than they have a Deep association with Shiv ji . - I know this isn't strictly a 'Sikh picture post' but could anyone explain or expand on Jhanghams - Shaka Nyorai Bhai Sahib maybe ?? Jhanghams in Patiala * taken from - Folk Music & Musical Instruments of Punjab - Alka Pande - Mapin - 1999

Absolutely Shocking !! I didn't know that the urns with the ashes had been removed - I am Speechless !! The Taliban analogy is not too strong - when are we gonna learn ! This is disgusting destruction. How can we ask for the 'Sewa Sambhaal' of pakistani gurdwaras in our Ardas everyday - if when we do get the chance we destroy them !! Very Upsetting !

SUPERB PHOTOGRAPHS !!! wonderful pics Amandeep Bhaaji - It always makes me sad to see such majestic buildings crumbling away - My pind is in Doaba Jalandhar dist. and all the old havelis and houses have been knocked down and replaced with Monstrous marble tiled houses/ Villas in the Costa-del -Sol style In fact as you drive around doaba you would think you were in Spain or some Dusty Toronto suburb from all the identikit Villas. NRIs must have money to burn building all these Huge NRI castles with swimming pools and building Amusement parks , Pubs and Marriage Palaces - Doaba is chockful of these . I wish some of that money could go to a Heritage fund to save all these Majestic Crumbling Buildings When I was last in Amritsar I heard a story that a number of Historic Havelis - some with priceless frescos of people like M.Ranjit Singh were going to be knocked down to make way for a Shopping centre I saw one and if I had the Money I would have saved the Facade and shipped it to England it was that beatuiful !! -- Why do Indian builders have to Demolish - they should learn a lesson from the Architectural Salvage people in UK who save pieces of condemned buildings and sell them to people with more money than sense Not that I am advocating that - I would prefer that Punjabis stop knocking down their heritage. I do have a theory - I blame Nek Chand and his rock garden in Chandigarh - People have got used to rubble displayed as art - that they think nothing of knocking down a historical Haveli and using the rubble to make a fake Spanish villa. !!! Apologies if I've offended any fellow Doabis or lovers of the Rock garden !!! Madra Sahib More Pictures PLEASE !!!! I love them !