HappyDays
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On 7/5/2016 at 7:29 PM, Guest Gurbani said:
Gurbani says Sri Guru Granth sahib is the Bani of God and came straight from God. You are saying the gurus experienced kaam krodh lohb mob ankhar. Since the gurus are the mouthpiece of God. You are saying God went through kaam krodh lohb mob ankhar. You added, how else can the Gurus know about the world if they never experienced it. Gurbani says alcohol makes a person lose his senses of reality. I understand from your logic, God (all knowing being) must have drank alcohol to find out the effects of it. According to you did God also die to know the experience?
Everyone has an opinion but no one writes opinions on exams. They try to remember the material they were told to study. The Guru doesn't care for mine or your opinion. He has given the truth to us in the form of Gurbani to practice. The Guru says to learn from Gurbani and teach others what you have learned. The Guru doesn't say to teach your opinion to others. An open mind according to Gurbani is to accept Gurbani teachings. A closed mind is the one who expresses opinions all day and learns nothing from the true teacher, the Guru. Opinions are formed through Maya in the mind. They don't have any value at the Gurus door.
First of all I don't have the IQ to understand Gurbani. That's why I try not to decipher it's meaning because I may take it the wrong way when the meaning is actually different. High-level gurmukhs understand the true meaning. I have my opinions though just like you do. I don't think Guru Gobind Singh Ji came out the womb fully realized. I believe he went on the spiritual journey as well to reach God. He writes his parents did lots of different meditation and he did as well before becoming one with the Truth. Bachittar Natak gives some really good insight. I think you'll take it the wrong way though. I don't know if you believe it's written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji or not but I feel it's too beautiful to not be written by him. I should ask my grandpa if it's written by Guru Gobind Singh or maybe Lucky will know. @Lucky is Bachittar Natak written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
ਅਬ ਮੈ ਅਪਨੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਖਾਨੋ ॥ ਤਪ ਸਾਧਤ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਹਿ ਆਨੋ ॥ Ab main apnee katha bakhaano. Tap saadhat iih bidh muhe aano. Now I relate my own story as to how I was brought here. While I was absorbed in deep meditation. ਹੇਮ ਕੰਟ ਪਰਬਤ ਹੈ ਜਹਾਂ ॥ ਸਪਤ ਸਰਿੰਗ ਸੋਭਿਤ ਹੈ ਤਹਾਂ ॥੧॥ Hemkunt Parbat hai jahaan, Sapt sring sobhit hai tahaan .1. The site was the mountain named Hemkunt, with seven peaks and looks there very impressive .1. ਸਪਤ ਸਰਿੰਗ ਤਿਹ ਨਾਮ ਕਹਾਵਾ ॥ ਪੰਡ ਰਾਜ ਜਹ ਜੋਗ ਕਮਾਵਾ ॥ Satptsring teh naam kahawa. Pand raaj jahan jog kamava That mountain is called Sapt Shring (seven-peaked mountain), where the Pandavas Practised Yoga. ਤਹ ਹਮ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਸਾਧੀ ॥ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ ॥੨॥ teh ham adhik tapasaya sadhi. mahakaal akalka aradhi .2. There I was absorbed in deep meditation on the Primal Power, the Supreme Being .2. ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਤ ਤਪਿਸਆ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਦਵੈ ਤੇ ਝਕ ਰੂਪ ਹਵੈ ਗਯੋ ॥ Ih bidh karat tappsaya bhayo. Davai te ek roop havai gayo. In this way, my meditation reached its zenith and I became One with the Omnipotent Lord. ਤਾਤ ਮਾਤ ਮਰ ਅਲਖ ਅਰਾਧਾ ॥ ਬਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਜੋਗ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਸਾਧਾ ॥੩॥ taat maat mur alakh araahaa. bahu beedh jog saahdna sahdaa ॥3॥ My parents also meditated for the union with the Incomprehensible Lord and performed many types of disciplines for union.3. ਤਿਨ ਜੋ ਕਰੀ ਅਲਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਝ ਪਰਸੰਨਿ ਗਰਦੇਵਾ ॥ tin jo karee alakh kee sevaa. taa tay bhaay prasanni gurdava ॥ The service that they rendered the Incomprehensible Lord, caused the pleasure of the Supreme Guru (i.e. Lord). ਤਿਨ ਪਰਭ ਜਬ ਆਇਸ ਮਹਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਆ ॥੪॥ tin prabh jab aaees muh theeaa. tab hamm janam kaloo mahi leeaa ॥4॥ When the Lord ordered me, I was born in this Iron age.4. ਚਿਤ ਨ ਭਯੋ ਹਮਰੋ ਆਵਨ ਕਹਿ ॥ ਚਭੀ ਰਹੀ ਸਰਤਿ ਪਰਭ ਚਰਨਨ ਮਹਿ ॥ Chit na bhayo hamro aavan kaih. Chubhi rahee srut Prabhu chaman maih I had no desire to come, because I was totally absorbed in devotion for the Holy feet of the Lord. ਜਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਪਰਭ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਿਹ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੫॥ Jio tio Prabh ham ko samjhaayo. Im Kaih kai ih lok Pathaayo. But the Lord made me understand His Will and sent me in this world with the following words.5 -
On 7/4/2016 at 1:28 PM, Guest guest said:
nobody cares what you think, and your thoughts aren't 'controversial'. you're reading Osho and have so much faith in that? so why pretend ot be a sikh you fraud.
Well It's pushing me towards realizing the truth for myself. Part of that to me is giving up any pre-conceived ideas. I don't believe in some random God or Karma. No need to be so negative towards my opinion. You can keep believing in some God that listens to every ardas I'm not attacking you for it. I know ardas to God is in guru granth sahib but I don't know the purpose. The gurus could be using it for prem-bhakti. I choose a more scientific path instead of blind faith. I refuse to believe anything I don't know. Only through going within will I find the answers I'm seeking. Not listening to some katha or some story or some beliefs. I don't believe in all of Oshos teachings, I believe some of his teachings actually drove many people towards kaam ras and the wrong direction. I do agree in his belief to not believe what you don't know and instead put the time in to reach the truth for yourself. If one day I realize that some God does exist that listens to everyones ardas and some sort of karma system does exist then cool but until then I don't know so I don't believe.
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This has to be some kind of joke. I was drinking water while listening to it and I just started laughing and crying so hard I couldn't hold the water in my mouth. I felt like dancing when I listened to it. I don't think you can do simran and sing gurbani to that kind of music LOL! Haha, you should use music that is meditative by its nature man.
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I agree with what CuriousSeeker said. In the beginning there are lots of ups and downs but they gradually settle. Imagine a meter with a needle. It goes really high then really low. As you stay steady with more experience and giaan the needle does not move far off from the center. Your mind stays steady and there are no more highs and lows. Listening to and understanding Asa Di Vaar played the biggest role for me in steadying my mind. You should enjoy spirituality and not see it as a job of some sort. If a person does not enjoy it they'll always fall off. Find sangat to do naam japna with that's the easiest and best way to start enjoying spirituality. I read you don't have many friends. I think it's very vital to have good people around us. You should form some friendships with good people you can find. Everyone needs friends, they help us stay in a good mood. Just talking to a friend makes a person who is down level himself. I do believe in spirituality but not in ardaas and some force listening to it. I think gurus put ardas to keep sikhs safe from Ahankaar. If you feel all your spiritual gain is thanks to some God then you will stay safe from houmai. Also most health issues are cured so if person does ardas and health returns then their belief in God becomes even stronger and it will motivate them to meditate. However, one of my close friends got a chronic health issue that the doctors could not figure out and for 3 years his mother and father did ardaas and paath day and night. It has been 4 years and he is still sitting at his home with his dehabilitating chronic disease. His parents are questioning their belief in God and giving up. A persons blind belief can become the reason they give up if things don't go their way. It's better to just see it as a process of awakening yourself to reality. There is not some imaginary God that can do kirpa. A living sant could do kirpa on him but not some imaginary force. Guru Granth sahib is our guide but it cannot do kirpa on us in my opinion. You see Gurus refer to the Truth in love as mother, father, husband, all-knowing guide, one who cares for all beings etc. I believe it is a method to develop bairaag and love. Once you have that love you become intoxicated in it, it will take you all the way. Then you realize the Truth which is different. If Gurus just told people the truth straight up they would not understand so they stuck with this method of giving the people some imaginary force to cling to. This is just my opinion from the experiences that shaped my thinking. When I gave up my belief that there is some god, I felt a big weight come off my shoulders and lots of peace come to my mind. I just try to live a good honest life. I see awakening as the only thing with meaning in life everything else is just useless and temporary. Everything is in naam japna. I read or listen to gurbani and katha just to motivate myself to do naam japna. The whole process and awakening is in naam japna. I still enjoy maya though. I see awakening as a science and process with no kirpa involved so I stay steady in my sadhana now to continue the process each day. I believe we need to have a well-balanced life. We must live in maya and enjoy it while being spiritual as well. Some people try to get away from maya and be spiritual only but that is a much tougher road. Like Guru Ji says they leave to the jungles but there mind is still stuck in Maya. Balance is the key. I think it has worked well for me. I'm just stating my view and opinion. I'm not saying I am right or wrong. I have spent much of my time being a philosopher to understand the creation and the mind. Understanding Kaam, Krodh, Lobh Moh Ahankaar through vichar with myself and listening to many different kathas by different people and religions. Asa Di Vaar helped me a'lot. I have built a strong understanding through philosophy to prepare myself to be spiritual. There are many paths and that is the path I took.
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29 minutes ago, samurai said:
people that believe that our guru's suffered from kaam krodh etc, well simple bounce from their vichaar, no need to prove them wrong, narakh need to be filed as well!!...their vichaar is from their own ego..
Bhul Chuk Maaf bro. I agree that statement by me is wrong. I don't know if the Gurus ever had to suffer in past lifetimes from panj doot. I don't know if they even had past lifetimes. I don't know.
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28 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:
@HappyDays I am glad you cleared your view point that you do not believe in Karma, Grace except from 5 pyaras & SGGS is not living like most ppl think . Thanks for clearing up! I wont be offended from now on.
btw do you believe in Ragamala as Gurbani ?
No idea I know some saints don't believe in raagmala. Bhai Randhir Singh and AKJ do not believe in it. I don't think it matters either way. It's not going to make a huge difference if you accept it or reject it. The more important thing is making steady gains spiritually and not worrying about small things like this in my opinion. Below is some good knowledge from Kabir Sahib in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj Ji. Guru Granth Sahib gives us all the answers to our questions if we search it.
(340-2)
raag ga-orhee poorbee baavan akhree kabeer jee-o kee
Raag Gauree Poorbee, Baawan Akhree Of Kabeer Jee:(340-2)
ik-oaNkaar satnaam kartaa purakhgurparsaad.
One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. By Guru's Grace:(340-3)
baavan achhar lok tarai sabh kachh in hee maahi.
Through these fifty-two letters, the three worlds and all things are described.(340-3)
ay akhar khir jaahigay o-ay akhar in meh naahi. ||1||
These letters shall perish; they cannot describe the Imperishable Lord. ||1|| -
23 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:
@HappyDays Talk to your grandfather about this topic, if Avtars & Gurus come into Garbh Jooni. I am sure he will provide an insightful answer beneficial to us all. Hope to hear from you soon!
I'm going to India in 3 months to meditate I'll make sure to bring this across and let you know what he says.
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31 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:
You are entitled to your opinion. I have no interest in changing anyone's understanding. I stand firm in my beliefs in the words of great sages. I keep my limited intellect aside.
But I am passionate about certain misconceptions that Sikhs have. My duty is to spread the word of great sages.
Baba Buddha Ji, Bhai Lehna Ji, Sri Chand Ji, Lakhmi Das Ji viewed Guru Nanak acc. to their own drishti . And they got the appropriate Phal. Bhai Lehna became Guru Nanak & Baba Buddha Ji became Brahmgyani , and so on...
Larger utensil of devotion you have the more phal you will get...
I respect your view, everyone has their own view according to there thinking and understanding. My view is more realist. I don't go by blind faith that much. I only go by what I know. I do ardas just for positive energy. I don't believe there is something listening to my ardas though. I think similar to Osho that there is no God in the concept of something overlooking the creation and taking care of everyone. I see so many people stuck in pain in this world with no way out. So it's hard for me to believe there is some force that is guiding and taking care of everyone. The karma theory to me is bullshit. A persons thinking is not in their control so they have no power over what they do. Depending on the type of thinking and intelligence a person has so do they act. I believe Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our guide that contains the wisdom of our great gurus. I believe the purpose of SGGS is to guide us to become self-realized beings like the gurus, but I don't believe it is living like most sikhs think. I believe our living guru is sache panj pyare who can do kirpa on us. I believe self-realization is a science and there is no kirpa involved except from panj pyare. I used to have blind-faith but I gave it up to go realize the Truth for myself and not assume anything. This post will probably shock many people. I know my views are against most Sikhs but please don't judge me.
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10 hours ago, Lucky said:
They are real when you see them and you don't wanna see them coming towards you man, seriously. They appear as if hooded, and if you are unlucky enough to see their faces, ...then God help!...I don't wanna know!.
The naraks may be seen or you may just bypass them and just get a weeee glance. Waheguru probably does this to show you what you have just avoided by uttering his name "Narayan" on your last breath. (Ajamila uttered his sons name "Narayan" and was saved from the noose of yama).
Ay Lucky, doesn't that sound foolish to you he is calling out Narayan but his chit is on his son not god. So it's just a word that he does not associate with god. He is not thinking of god, he is thinking of his son. Yet he gets saved while yelling out to his son. Some things just don't add up lol. I think we take things too literally sometimes and don't get the message behind it. Like in the Quran it says if a person does not believe in Allah they should have their head removed. Some muslims then go killing people who don't believe in Allah. I'm pretty sure that's not what Mohammed intended. Lol! Then you look at Jesus saying drink with me in my fathers kingdom. Christians then start drinking wine in their Churches. Lol! While Jesus was talking about amrit ras. People take things too literally man.
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All this talk about Guru Avtar and when they come into the body is so pointless. It's a useless discussion and gives us no benefit, it just looks foolish. So Avtar gets to come in the body later? Okay cool story, who cares, lets move on to more important things now. Bhagat Singh has already spoken to Baba Nand Singh Ji on the matter. Just let it go Raagmala. "Baba Nand Singh ji is sitting up there laughing at me for even attempting to rectify this. Whoever that is, he says that I am too attached to making things right and I should just let it go and let it be as it is."
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4 hours ago, paapiman said:
Bro, is she amritdhari?
Bhul chuk maaf
No she does not follow one religion kind of dabs with them all. She talks about Guru Granth Sahib and gurbani. She also talks about the vedas and the Bible etc. She is good at talking.
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8 minutes ago, JasperS said:
The question is more why would they? The assumption I am getting here is that sex = bad. Therefore our Gurus would never have anything to do with this gross bass carnal thing.
This is such wrong thinking. Sexuality was created by Waheguru. Union between male / female is a beautiful thing when not misused. It's not intercourse that is disgusting. It's the misuse of it for purely physical gratification that is disgusting. It's warping the original meaning of sexuality which can be a highly spiritual act! I can't explain to you how, you have to arrive at that conclusion yourself. In fact, its one of the closest acts we can do under the correct pretence, that mimics the merging of our soul back with waheguru. There is a spiritual merging of energy between husband and wife when this occurs. Once you view intercourse in this way, it no longer seems disgusting, nor something that would have any reason for our Gurus to avoid. Its OUR minds which make sex into something disgusting only.
So why would our Gurus avoid it? To suggest so, says that sex is inherently bad. All sex. And to suggest that Gurus never engaged in it, says that their wives did not actually share any marital relationship at all if it was purely platonic (why marry them then when they could just as easily have congregated with him as sisters / servants / companions)? It also suggests that since the Gurus had children, that those children were not biologically related to the Gurus. It takes two sets of DNA to create a child. Were the Gurus wives just treated as breeding stock?Preach my brother preach, that was desperately needed. Lol.
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4 hours ago, Ragmaala said:
That mouth be burnt which says that Thakur comes into Jooni....
What I have learnt from the great sages is that it is disrespectful to say that Gurus had intercourse, came into jooni etc. So I will continue to emphasize this again & again whenever I see this message posted. I feel it is my moral duty to respond, otherwise I don't usually post. Its kind of like doing Guru Ninda in ignorance. Hopefully, you guys can expand your thinking than this.
I am surprised that some people think they are close to understandings of the great sages lol. Its hilarious.
@HappyDays Bro, are you serious ? How can you say Guru experienced kaam krodh lobh moh ahankar... you have got to be kidding me. This is the first I have heard. Dont say things that you are not sure about, you dont want to be committing Nindya even in ignorance. Stay Humble!
I am just flabbergasted that people are trying to understand Guru through their limited understandings lol. Ah well, I have done my moral duty, rest is upto you to think however you want. You have been warned...
That mouth be burnt which says that Thakur comes into Jooni....
Like BhagatSingh just showed your thinking regarding that one line quote is flawed. I'm entitled to have my own opinion I never said it is a fact. I'm a person with a open mind. If you want to lock yourself into a certain thinking then you're free to. I'm not going to go hide my opinion just because it's not popular. The soul which is God never changes. We have to realize that we're the Truth. That is the journey I believe we are going on which is known as self-realization. We are here to realize we ourselves and everything else is God. There is nothing but God. The 5 elements are always changing. Every physical body takes birth and then dies. I see Gurus as souls who experienced many different lives as well. If they never went through dealing with panj dhoot then they could not relate to and understand us. One of the most beautiful writings I have ever listened to is Bachittar Natak by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Many saints believe it is by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I do know however some people don't think it's Guru Gobind Singhs' writing. I believe it was written for Khalsa and Guru Granth for the world. I suggest you listen to it with a open mind and try to understand. It's amazing how much this panth runs away when a sexual reference is made. It's like a bunch of little kids that have no self-control. God is in everything. Not just our Gurus. Everyone is equal. I'm not committing nindiya just stating my belief. Do you know what the ardas below is saying? Can you tell me what the ardas below is saying?
Pritham Bhagouti Simar Kai, Guru Naanak Layee Dhiyae
Angad Gur Te Amar Das, Raamdaasai Hoye Sahai
Arjan Hargobind No Simrou Sri Har Rai
Sri HarKrishan Dhiyaa-eeai Jis Dhithi Sabh Dukh Jaye
Teg Bahadur Simareeai Ghar No Nidh Avai Dhai
Sabh Thai Ho-e Sahaai
Dasvaa Paatshaah Guru Gobind Singh Ji Sabh Thai Ho-e Sahaai
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3 hours ago, Lucky said:
The article in OP is good and very close to my own understanding. However, the physical acts of reproduction as a necessity are not my belief and I feel too disrespectful and shamefaced to discuss it.
Guru Nanak's father and mother seemed to be normal average people. They didn't seem to be very spiritual in the stories I heard. They delivered Guru Nanak to the world though. Wouldn't that contradict the article? What is your take on this Lucky? Regarding intercourse, I do agree with BhagatSingh. Personally I believe the Guru's did have a physical union with there spouse just like everyone else does to bring a soul into the world. It was done with a pure mind though. Physical union between two high avastha partners is a spiritual meeting as well and pushes both higher and closer to the Truth. There is nothing wrong with that. Or maybe they just snapped there fingers and it happened LOL! I believe Gurus experienced Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankaar before as well. I also believe they experienced being in the womb since it's written about in SGGS. That is the way they're able to teach us in gurbani because they've had these personal experiences before and overcame them to become enlightened. There is no difference between the Guru and a true Sikh. Everyone is the same and equal. We are all one. We are all from the same jot. The Gurus followed the same rules of the play as we do. Do you really think Guru Ji is going to bend the rules just so he doesn't have to have physical union with his wife? That sounds silly. The Gurus know this is a play and that maya the physical creation is god as well. Guru Ji has control of his mind he has no fear of maya or panj dhoot. Our Gurus have given us the easiest path where we can enjoy maya and get closer to sach. It's okay to enjoy things like food, sports and your significant other. You do want to conserve your sexual energy though and not be like a animal. High avastha people probably only have intercourse to bring a soul into this world. 5 dhoot are necessary to play this game. God enjoys this game of his and so should we. The 5 dhoot must be our servants though then we can enjoy maya or else they will torture us. I'm just stating my opinion. Great Rishis and Munis have failed. The path is much harder for them. I think a big reason is they become so anti-maya that they end up falling into Maya. The harder you try to get away from something the more it will pull you in. Maya is beautiful. It is only bad if we don't have control of the panj dhoot. Like Bhai Sewa Singh Ji Tarmala would say the mind is here to play and enjoy Gods physical creation maya as well. It is a fine balance. I just pray and do ardas to Vaheguru for his naam and continue to live a well-balanced life. I have faith everything will take care of itself. Below in Asa Di Vaar according to my thinking Guru Ji is showing the amazement he has beholding the beauty of Gods physical creation, Maya. ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ (463-18)
salok mehlaa 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਦ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਵੇਦ ॥ (463-18)
vismaad naad vismaad vayd.
Wonderful is the sound current of the Naad, wonderful is the knowledge of the Vedas.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਜੀਅ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੇਦ ॥ (463-19)
vismaad jee-a vismaad bhayd.
Wonderful are the beings, wonderful are the species.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਰੂਪ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਰੰਗ ॥ (463-19)
vismaad roop vismaad rang.
Wonderful are the forms, wonderful are the colors.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਗੇ ਿਫਰਿਹ ਜੰਤ ॥ (463-19)
vismaad naagay fireh jant.
Wonderful are the beings who wander around naked.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਪਉਣੁ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਪਾਣੀ ॥ (464-1)
vismaad pa-un vismaad paanee.
Wonderful is the wind, wonderful is the water.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਅਗਨੀ ਖੇਡਿਹ ਿਵਡਾਣੀ ॥ (464-1)
vismaad agnee khaydeh vidaanee.
Wonderful is fire, which works wonders.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਖਾਣੀ ॥ (464-1)
vismaad Dhartee vismaad khaanee.
Wonderful is the earth, wonderful the sources of creation. ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਾਿਦ ਲਗਿਹ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥ (464-2)
vismaad saad lageh paraanee.
Wonderful are the tastes to which mortals are attached.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਿਵਜੋਗੁ ॥ (464-2)
vismaad sanjog vismaad vijog.
Wonderful is union, and wonderful is separation.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੁਖ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੋਗੁ ॥ (464-2)
vismaad bhukh vismaad bhog.
Wonderful is hunger, wonderful is satisfaction.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਿਸਫਿਤ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥ (464-3)
vismaad sifat vismaad saalaah.
Wonderful is His Praise, wonderful is His adoration.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਉਝੜ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਰਾਹ ॥ (464-3)
vismaad ujharh vismaad raah.
Wonderful is the wilderness, wonderful is the path.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਨੇੜੈ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੂਿਰ ॥ (464-3)
vismaad nayrhai vismaad door.
Wonderful is closeness, wonderful is distance.
ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਾਜਰਾ ਹਜੂਿਰ ॥ (464-4)
vismaad daykhai haajraa hajoor.
How wonderful to behold the Lord, ever-present here.
ਵੇਿਖ ਿਵਡਾਣੁ ਰਿਹਆ ਿਵਸਮਾਦੁ ॥ (464-4)
vaykh vidaan rahi-aa vismaad.
Beholding His wonders, I am wonder-struck.
ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਝਣੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਿਗ ॥੧॥ (464-4)
naanak bujhan poorai bhaag. ||1||
O Nanak, those who understand this are blessed with perfect destiny. ||1|| -
Anandmurti Gurumaa is not a brahm-gyani. Very hard to find true brahm-gyani. Gurumaa got quite the ego, I stayed at her ashram for awhile. Lol. You can't just judge off how good a person is at speaking and talking in katha etc. Only brahm-gyani can truly recognize another brahm-gyani.
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24 minutes ago, Lucky said:
I must say that your Grandfather has given you some very interesting points and I understand most of what you have written. He has only revealed the "tip" of the iceberg, because common man wouldn't understand the rest. Seeing the yoghurt alive and everything else, is not exactly what you or most people would interpret -It's not microscopic vision as such or x-ray..... it's actually seeing it alive, active and vibrating. Very difficult to ever explain. I too, have had this perception for a while and I know exactly what he was talking about. It's not just stuff with microorganisms, it is in act everything around you. It actually ties in with the 5 tat thread that was inspired by Bhagat after he mentioned something along the lines of .."existence being continuous and in constant motion from moment to moment" This is because all existence is made up of 5 elements, except the "Truth" behind the veil.
You won't understand the water in the bucket until you start 'cleaning' your mind and holding it still. Most of the things you stated, take real experience to understand. It's as if you get there, then feel or see something, and you say to yourself "This is what he meant by the dhayeen being alive, man, I know what he was saying" .
We can all "live" the experience, instead of hearing or interpreting it.
25 minutes ago, Lucky said:I must say that your Grandfather has given you some very interesting points and I understand most of what you have written. He has only revealed the "tip" of the iceberg, because common man wouldn't understand the rest. Seeing the yoghurt alive and everything else, is not exactly what you or most people would interpret -It's not microscopic vision as such or x-ray..... it's actually seeing it alive, active and vibrating. Very difficult to ever explain. I too, have had this perception for a while and I know exactly what he was talking about. It's not just stuff with microorganisms, it is in act everything around you. It actually ties in with the 5 tat thread that was inspired by Bhagat after he mentioned something along the lines of .."existence being continuous and in constant motion from moment to moment" This is because all existence is made up of 5 elements, except the "Truth" behind the veil.
You won't understand the water in the bucket until you start 'cleaning' your mind and holding it still. Most of the things you stated, take real experience to understand. It's as if you get there, then feel or see something, and you say to yourself "This is what he meant by the dhayeen being alive, man, I know what he was saying" .
We can all "live" the experience, instead of hearing or interpreting it.
Thanks for the clarification on the misunderstanding veer ji and the input on the things my grandpa told me. I'm going to work really hard with naam japna so I can get personal experience as well. I pray that I stay strong and kirpa happens on me as well. Fingers crossed. Apne karam ki gat main kya jaano.
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Even though the title says "truth about hemkunt" I'm not saying if this is true or not just sharing. I thought I would share something my grandpa told me. He told me that the real Hemkunt is a place within where Guru Gobind Singh Ji meditated. It is not a physical place, it is sookham.
About his own life Guru Gobind Singh writes in his auto-biography: -
ਅਬ ਮੈ ਅਪਨੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਖਾਨੋ ॥ ਤਪ ਸਾਧਤ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਹਿ ਆਨੋ ॥ Ab main apnee katha bakhaano. Tap saadhat iih bidh muhe aano. Now I relate my own story as to how I was brought here. While I was absorbed in deep meditation. ਹੇਮ ਕੰਟ ਪਰਬਤ ਹੈ ਜਹਾਂ ॥ ਸਪਤ ਸਰਿੰਗ ਸੋਭਿਤ ਹੈ ਤਹਾਂ ॥੧॥ Hemkunt Parbat hai jahaan, Sapt sring sobhit hai tahaan .1. The site was the mountain named Hemkunt, with seven peaks and looks there very impressive .1. ਸਪਤ ਸਰਿੰਗ ਤਿਹ ਨਾਮ ਕਹਾਵਾ ॥ ਪੰਡ ਰਾਜ ਜਹ ਜੋਗ ਕਮਾਵਾ ॥ Satptsring teh naam kahawa. Pand raaj jahan jog kamava That mountain is called Sapt Shring (seven-peaked mountain), where the Pandavas Practised Yoga. ਤਹ ਹਮ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਸਾਧੀ ॥ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ ॥੨॥ teh ham adhik tapasaya sadhi. mahakaal akalka aradhi .2. There I was absorbed in deep meditation on the Primal Power, the Supreme Being .2. (Srigranth p132) "My father and mother meditated on the incomprehensible. They both practiced the highest yoga through diverse spiritual efforts. Their devout service in the love of God pleased the Almighty who commanded me to take human form in this world. I did not like to come. God sent me into the world with a mandate saying, 'I cherish thee as my son and send thee to establish the path of truth. Go into the world and establish virtue and keep the people, away from evil.'When my father came to Triveni (Allahabad) he daily devoted himself to meditation and charity. There at Allahabad the dazzling light manifested itself into human form."
ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਤ ਤਪਿਸਆ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਦਵੈ ਤੇ ਝਕ ਰੂਪ ਹਵੈ ਗਯੋ ॥ Ih bidh karat tappsaya bhayo. Davai te ek roop havai gayo. In this way, my meditation reached its zenith and I became One with the Omnipotent Lord. ਤਾਤ ਮਾਤ ਮਰ ਅਲਖ ਅਰਾਧਾ ॥ ਬਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਜੋਗ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਸਾਧਾ ॥੩॥ taat maat mur alakh araahaa. bahu beedh jog saahdna sahdaa ॥3॥ My parents also meditated for the union with the Incomprehensible Lord and performed many types of disciplines for union.3. ਤਿਨ ਜੋ ਕਰੀ ਅਲਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਝ ਪਰਸੰਨਿ ਗਰਦੇਵਾ ॥ tin jo karee alakh kee sevaa. taa tay bhaay prasanni gurdava ॥ The service that they rendered the Incomprehensible Lord, caused the pleasure of the Supreme Guru (i.e. Lord). ਤਿਨ ਪਰਭ ਜਬ ਆਇਸ ਮਹਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਆ ॥੪॥ tin prabh jab aaees muh theeaa. tab hamm janam kaloo mahi leeaa ॥4॥ When the Lord ordered me, I was born in this Iron age.4. ਚਿਤ ਨ ਭਯੋ ਹਮਰੋ ਆਵਨ ਕਹਿ ॥ ਚਭੀ ਰਹੀ ਸਰਤਿ ਪਰਭ ਚਰਨਨ ਮਹਿ ॥ Chit na bhayo hamro aavan kaih. Chubhi rahee srut Prabhu chaman maih I had no desire to come, because I was totally absorbed in devotion for the Holy feet of the Lord. ਜਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਪਰਭ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਿਹ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੫॥ Jio tio Prabh ham ko samjhaayo. Im Kaih kai ih lok Pathaayo. But the Lord made me understand His Will and sent me in this world with the following words.5. Triveni is the same as Trikuti. Where the 3 rivers meet. Guru Tegh Bahadur was at trikuti and that's where the dazzling light manifested itself into human form.
"You have said that by resolving consciously to withdraw inside, or at the time of death, the entire life energy shrinks and returns to the center for the purpose of turning into a seed once again. At which center does the energy shrink? Does it concentrate at the agya chakra, at the navel, or at some other point? Which is the most important chakra, and why?
This requires a little consideration. The whole energy will of course shrink before death occurs. Before one embarks on a new journey, the energy which is otherwise dispersed all over the body will return to a point. This is the same as when one moves from a house – he collects all his important belongings. When he lived there, all kinds of things were spread out in every part of the house, from the bathroom to the living room. So at the time of moving, he sorts out his possessions. He throws away the junk, packs up the important stuff, and sets out on a new journey.
Just as we abandon one life, one body, and commence the journey of another life, another body – similarly the consciousness which was spread out withdraws and once again becomes the seed. Up to now it functioned as an actuality; now it will once again become a potentiality, because now, like a seed, it will enter a new body.
Just as a tree leaves seeds behind before dying, similarly the body too leaves behind seeds before it meets death. What we call sperm or ova are the seeds left by the body at the time of death. These are the seeds released prior to death, in anticipation of death. The sperm contains the entire built-in program of your body, it contains the exact replica of your body. As the body gets ready to depart, it leaves behind the tiny seed. This phenomenon occurs at one level – the physical. Similarly, consciousness, on a different level, gathers itself and becomes a seed in order to enter the seed present in some other body.
All journeys begin with the seed and end with the seed. Remember, that which is the beginning is also the end. The journey’s cycle ends where it started. We begin from a seed, we end up again as a seed. So the question is: at the moment of death, at which center would the consciousness gather to shrink and become a seed? It would, of course, gather at the very center you have lived through all your life. It would concentrate at the center which was most valuable to you in your life, because that was your most active center; one should say, that was the very point from where your whole vital energy functioned.
For example, if a man lived his whole life obsessed with sex, if he knew nothing beyond sex, if sex was all he lived for – he earned wealth to enjoy sex, he went after a high position in the pursuit of sex, he wanted to have good health so that he could indulge more into sex – if sex was the most predominant center functioning in his life, then that is where the entire energy will converge at the moment of death. Then his new journey will begin from the sex center. Why? – because his next birth will be an ongoing journey of the same sex-obsessed center. This man’s consciousness will gather at the sex center in the dying moments, and that is the point where his life will come to an end. His life energy will leave through his genitalia. Had this man lived through a different center, the energy would have concentrated and left from that center. The center around which one’s life has revolved is the center from where he will depart. The place where he dwelt the whole life will be the place from where he will depart. Therefore, a yogi can leave from the agya chakra, and a lover from his heart chakra. The life energy of an enlightened man would leave from the sahasrar, the seventh chakra – his skull will break open as he departs from there.
The point from where one makes an exit is the conclusive proof of how one has lived his life. Such techniques were discovered in the past that by looking at a dead body one could say through which chakra, through which door the consciousness left the body. All the chakras are doors for entrance as well as for exit. The soul will use the same door for entering another body which it used for exiting the dying body. The soul will enter the new cell in a mother’s womb through the same door from which it came out at the previous death – that’s the only door it knows.
Therefore, the mental condition of the father and the mother, as well as their state of consciousness at the time of intercourse, determine what kind of soul will enter the womb, because only that type of consciousness, that kind of soul will be attracted to seek that womb which fits with the center closest to the minds of the father and mother during the intercourse. If two individuals who have gone deep into meditation make love not with the desire for sexual pleasure, but as an experiment in giving birth to a soul – they can make use of the highest possible chakras for that purpose.
This is the reason why the higher souls have to wait for a long time – because they need a womb of a higher quality, which is very difficult to find. Hence, many good souls cannot take birth again for hundreds of years. The same is the case with many of the evil souls. The ordinary souls are born right away. They take birth instantly, without any difficulty, because many suitable wombs are available to them every day. About one hundred and eighty thousand births take place every day, excluding the number of people dying. Every day about two hundred thousand souls can enter as many wombs – but this applies only to the ordinary souls.
Many souls, who after great difficulty were born on this earth, have been forced to take birth on other planets. The earth became incapable of giving them birth again. This is the same as if a scientist born in India were to find a suitable job in America. He would be born on our soil, we would provide him with food and water, care and nourishment, but not a single living opportunity befitting his background and training. Obviously, he is forced to seek a position in America.
Today, most of the scientists from all different parts of the world have settled down in America. This is bound to be so. In the same manner, although we help souls evolve on this earth we do not make available a suitable womb for their next birth. Naturally, they are forced to seek opportunities for birth on other planets." - Rajneesh Osho I know many people don't like Osho but he was something special. So here he states "All the chakras are doors for entrance as well as for exit. The soul will use the same door for entering another body which it used for exiting the dying body. The soul will enter the new cell in a mother’s womb through the same door from which it came out at the previous death – that’s the only door it knows.
Therefore, the mental condition of the father and the mother, as well as their state of consciousness at the time of intercourse, determine what kind of soul will enter the womb, because only that type of consciousness, that kind of soul will be attracted to seek that womb which fits with the center closest to the minds of the father and mother during the intercourse." Guru Gobind Singh Ji was conceived in Agya Chakra(Triveni) then took birth in Patna Sahib. In Guru Gobind Singh Ji writing it says Guru Tegh Bahadur his father went to many places of pilgrimage before reaching Triveni where Guru Gobind Singh Ji was conceived. The places of pilgrimage were not outward physical places it's referring to Guru Tegh Bahadurs inward spiritual journey. It was talking about his internal pilgrimmage from naabhi to trikuti. The physical place said to be Hemkunt is not true. The real Hemkunt is a place within us that we can see, experience and meditate at once we reach a certain stage. This confusion is similar to "Amritsar". Many Sikhs think Amritsar refers to the physical Golden Temple but the spiritual ones know what it truly refers to.
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18 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:
Your grandpa is someone I would like to meet and dicuss with. Where does he live? I think your grandpa and I would have some interesting conversations.
My grandpa lives in Punjab. I'm just a beginner who doesn't know anything but he taught me all I need for now and gave me some really deep insight. For you a spiritually more experienced person he could give insight on what you need to do to get to the next stage if you don't know the path. I'm not sure if I should post his address on the internet though. It's going to be weird if someone goes up to him and mentions I gave his address. Then they start asking about his spiritual experiences and stuff. I would be cool with people going to him and talking about what stage they're at and how they can get to the next stage though.
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7 hours ago, Lucky said:
LOL! Really?? How can you tell? ;)
I'm not talking about you man. I know I referenced your 5 tat thread. You can tell some people read or heard what they post somewhere because they say they heard it in a katha or read it somewhere. I worded it wrong, sorry. I didn't mean I can tell people read or heard it somewhere without them stating it. Sorry, I got lots of respect for you man. I read some of your posts back when I was getting into sikhism and spirituality years ago. Your posts really helped push me in this direction. I was lurking and reading your posts a long time ago. I just felt it was unecessary and useless to have to meditate and visualize elements from my point of view. My grandpa did tell me about the 5 elements but I don't remember much. I think naam japna will detach you from the 5 elements and you don't need to meditate on or visualize them. I got a lot of love for you though mate ❤ you're like a big brother to me without knowing. You and Sat. I will question what I feel is not right though. I'd love to hear your point of view though I got lots of respect for you so it seems weird questioning you. I do trust the kathavachak below mysimran.info and I found one of his vids where he talks about the 5 elements.
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10 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:Those were the last set of questions.
Clearing up Misconceptions about Agya Chakra meditation
I'll tell you why I am asking such questions. I believe that it is not because of meditating on Agya chakra too early that you got a headache and such. And it's not an imbalance in the pavan.
It's because your muscles in your face, your jaw muscles and maybe even your neck muscles are tightening up during your meditations on the agya chakra.
I used to meditate on the agya chakra a lot and I would feel a pressure in my head between my eyes. My eyes were not straining but I felt a pressure. I thought "cool! my third eye chakra is activating". thus for many years I mistook the pressure in the forehead as the third eye chakra activating. Now the pressure is in the same region as the third eye however when a chakra is working properly you should ideally feel nothing. It is when the chakra is not working properly do you ever feel the chakra.
One day I accidentally noticed that if I loosen my jaw everytime there is pressure in the sinus region, then the pressure will go away. I thought it was just a conincidence at first. But everytime I got pressure in that region, I just loosened my jaw and it would go away. Evertime.
Muscle Tightness causes Pressure
Tightness in the jaw can cause such pressure when you are meditating. It's either the jaw or other muscles in the face that become tight and they cause that pressure feeling.Sinus infection can also cause such pressure it but I didn't have that and if you don't then it is this tightness and tension in the face that is causing the pressure.
Btw do you see why you would find it difficult to breath and get a headache if some of the muscles in your face, jaw and neck are tight?
It is important to loosen all these muscles by proper stretching (yes you can stretch and loosen your jaw muscle). I think while meditating we tend to strain our facial muscles, by putting in effort into the dhyan. Some people even up straining their eye muscles.
Your eyes should be relaxed and still while you meditate. The movement of your eyes is unimportant what matters is where your attention is, what matters is where you are concentrating.
How do you know where you dhyan/attention is?
You should not need to do this.
You should not strain your eye muscles ever. That can cause problems. Keep your eyes relaxed and still, and if they get tense then loosen them up by rolling your eyeballs around and stretching all the muscles.
Stop looking with your eyes, instead try to develop an awareness of your entire body, of each limb, each area of the torso where we describe the chakras to be, each finger, etc, without physically looking there.
You know the shape of your body and you should be able to tell where you are focusing in on the body. meditating on the body is whole different field of meditation. However for naam japna, just do a basic body scan, and become aware of the shape of the body and then go back to focusing on the mantra.
That's only if you want to focus on a body part while naam japna. This is not a requirement. Naam japna can be done with full concentration in the dhwani, the vibration of it.
Other variations include -
- Becoming aware of the sound vibration as it vibrates in the body.
- Chanting with others and focusing on the entire dhwani/vibration generated by everyone instead of just your own.How do you know if you are meditating on a chakra?
There are many ways of meditating on chakra. But what I consider the highest meditation, mastery level, is to dwell in the region of the chakra.
To be able to move the locus of your awareness to those regions.
What is a locus of awareness? locus of consciousness?
It is the seat of consciousness in the body. The default position for it is in the head, in the agya chakra.
When you are able to concentrate well enough, you can move this seat into your belly, your heart, your feet, etc. Then it will seem as if you are located in your belly and your head is above you.
You can even move this locus of awareness above your head, and outside of the body. When you do that then it is known as an Out of Body Experience.
I see. I noticed my eyes looking at the nose naturally when I would put my dhyan in the dhun of Vahe-Guru from my mouth. I did it about 8 hours a day and there was no strain. Later on I met some other yogis that would just meditate by looking at the tip of their nose which I found was interesting because my eyes would go there when I did the meditation. A coincidence probably I guess. It's not complicated, just a matter of us awakening the Kundalini shakti through naam japna. There are many techniques to do it. I'm using the one my grandpa told me to use. I saw some other thread about the 5 elements and some blah blah blah. End of the day all you need to do is naam japna. You will realize everything, no need to get into useless stuff like visualizations and meditating on some element. I trust what my grandpa says because.. His whole life has revolved around self-realization. He would sit in a room and do naam simran 10 hours a day when he was younger. His family when he was younger were hand in hand with bhai randhir singh ji and his family. So my grandpa spent lots of time around bhai randhir singh. He only sleeps 2 hours a day. He told me about our true home. He told me about all the places he has been spiritually. He told me about the many heavens and many hells he has been too and seen. Countless stories. He went to one place where the people there gave him some food and its taste was beyond anything we have at Earth. I remember reading a similar story about Guru Nanak. He told me about all the things he can see that normal people can't. Apparently there are many parallel universes. There is so much life even in this universe. He pointed to the sky and told me it is filled with life. Then he pointed to his dahi(yogurt) and told me he sees all these living things in it. I remembered reading in science that yogurt has billions of living things in it. He can see ghosts, jamdhoot, angels and so many other living things. My mama(uncle) leads a really bad lifestyle. My grandpa told me there were always jamdhoot around him and infront of the house. I believed everything he said but what made my belief 100% was when he was explaining to me how the design of Golden Temple by Guru Arjan Dev Ji was made in the same spiritual design as the human head. He touched the back of my head while he was explaining to me the human head and Golden Temple spiritual design. Then I went back to my mamas house to lay down. When I laid down I felt all the Kundalini shakti shooting up my spine and it was an amazing feeling. I had never experienced anand like that before. He really opened up my consciousness of what is reality. I know there is this idea everyone should hide their experiences but him openly sharing his experiences with me really opened me up. I've seen many posts on this forum where people talk about things but you can tell they just read or heard about it somewhere. I only talk about what I know. My grandpa was a real source not something I read about in a book or on Google. If a person is serious about spiritually awakening they should find people who are already spiritually awakened and a place where they can do naam japna with sangat. I plan on going to a place like this and spending 6 months of my life in that environment doing naam japna before I continue my life. My grandpa told me he speaks to God. I remember Kabir in Kabirs bani he talks about speaking to God as well. So I asked him, "Who is god?" There was a bucket of water next to us and he told me to go look in the bucket of water. I did. Then he told me the reflection is God. I still don't understand what he was saying. I hope one day I will know.
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2 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:
That's not surprising. Those two things are connected. Pressure that is experienced during the agya chakra meditation is connected to the inhibition in the ability to breath and with headaches. But it is not the meditation that causes this, at least not directly.
Where was the headache located? Which areas hurt? or which areas hurt the most?
My whole head hurt. No more questions please lol I've given you all the info about my experience with this. Maybe it was because I did it 3 days straight. I don't know. I was told by a very experienced meditator in my grandpa that what happened was a imbalance in the pavan. I didn't ask for more information so that's all I know. Then I was told I shouldn't be meditating there.
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9 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:
Oh you got a bad headache from doing so. Gotcha.
What confused me about your condition was when you said your "dhyan got stuck there"
Ok you felt pressure.
"Dhyan got stuck" is probably not the right language when describing this. When your dhyan sticks, that's a good thing lol. Everybody is trying to get the dhyan to stick but it doesn't, that's the problem! They need to train their dhyan so it sticks!
I got what you are saying, you felt pressure in your forehead and you got a headache from that.
Was there any mental imbalance aside from the physical pain? Or was it just pressure and headache?
Wrong choice of words my bad. I felt like I couldn't breathe properly, I felt like I didn't have enough oxygen in me which made me feel exhausted and like passing out. I couldn't fall asleep in the night either because of the constant pressure in my forehead. It was pure hell lol.
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54 minutes ago, Raju said:
This is not the dhun. The dhun this refers to is ajapa jaap, not vaiklhari jaap.
Sure you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just going by what a guy who has done naam simran his whole life and devoted himself completely tells me. If I can get to 1% of what he is spiritually then I'll be extremely grateful. There is dhun of gurmantar. Gurbani one line can have different meanings depending on persons avastha. Dhun of gurmantar, dhun of anhad shabad, sehaj dhun, panch shabad etc. The first step in putting "dhun mein dhiaan, dhiaan me janeya gurmukh akath kahanee" is to put dhiaan in dhun of Vahe-Guru.
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47 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:
Lol I was thinking you were experiencing this below -
If not that then...
What do you mean by this?
The way I see it, the locus of our consciousness is already located at the Agya chakra.
So what was different about this episode?
Was your attention pulled away from your body and into it? which caused you to not experience your body and ONLY experience the chakra?
In the proper meditation technique you put your dhyan on your mouth when doing naam japna. To make sure it is at the right place you can open your eyes and you should be looking directly at the tip of your nose. That is how to check if your dhyan is properly on your mouth and in the dhun "dhun me dhiaan, dhiaan me janeya gurmukh akath kahanee". For me when I didn't know the right technique I had put dhyan at agya chakra for 3 days straight and as a result of focusing so much on there I got a really bad head-ache. I was then told I should not put my dhyan there when I meditate because I am not at that stage yet. Agya Chakra, Trikuti, the place between your eyebrows whatever you want to call it is not a place a beginner should meditate. Only when a person is at the proper stage should they meditate there. That is the door Kabir says he is waiting at for the Lord to open. When you're at the proper stage then you will put your dhyan there and wait for the Lord to open the door for you the same way Bhagat Kabir Ji did. Imagine you have a rock stuck in your forehead weighing you down and you want to get the rock out. That's basically what I felt due to my dhyan being stuck there it caused so much pressure. It took 1 week of me stopping all meditation and going for long walks to finally break out of it. Hope I answered your questions, if not then just let me know and I will try again.
The Truth about Hemkunt
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I worded it wrong by saying I don't believe in God or karma. I meant to say I don't believe or not believe. What I'm basically saying is I don't know. Hopefully it makes sense to you. Stay cool bro no need to attack people with different views than yourself.